What do you think about the foundation of a FUG ?

astyle said:
I am. If Italy was in fact in court trying to overrule Microsoft over claims that MS forces OEMs to preinstall Windows - that should be recorded somewhere.
Click to expand...
Don' t people know how to web search or are they just too damn lazy? :)

arstechnica.com

Italian class-action suit targets unwanted Windows installs

The Association for the Rights of Users and Consumers (ADUC) in Italy is …
arstechnica.com arstechnica.com
fsfe.org

Refund of pre-installed Windows: Lenovo must pay 20,000 euros in damages - FSFE

In a historic judgment in Italy, in a case initiated by FSFE supporter Luca Bonissi, Lenovo was ordered to pay 20,000 euros in damages for abusive behaviou...
fsfe.org fsfe.org
 
bakul said:
Don' t people know how to web search or are they just too damn lazy? :)

arstechnica.com

Italian class-action suit targets unwanted Windows installs

The Association for the Rights of Users and Consumers (ADUC) in Italy is …
arstechnica.com arstechnica.com
fsfe.org

Refund of pre-installed Windows: Lenovo must pay 20,000 euros in damages - FSFE

In a historic judgment in Italy, in a case initiated by FSFE supporter Luca Bonissi, Lenovo was ordered to pay 20,000 euros in damages for abusive behaviou...
fsfe.org fsfe.org
Click to expand...
Thanks for the links. I do know how to search the web. I do think it was on Zare (and nobody else, frankly) to provide me with links to back up claims he made. If I make a claim, I do bother to provide a link to back THAT up.
 
astyle said:
Thanks for the links. I do know how to search the web. I do think it was on Zare (and nobody else, frankly) to provide me with links to back up claims he made. If I make a claim, I do bother to provide a link to back THAT up.
Click to expand...

Well if I made a claim FreeBSD supports something would you require me to automatically point you to the git commit?
We're not discussing anything important, we're on a side topic.

It is something I remember. Do you trust your memory? Did you ever post something out of your past experience without having a link handy to back it up?

It is up to you to check my entries. I don't need a citation list for my forum posts.
 
Zare said:
Well if I made a claim FreeBSD supports something would you require me to automatically point you to the git commit?
We're not discussing anything important, we're on a side topic.

It is something I remember. Do you trust your memory? Did you ever post something out of your past experience without having a link handy to back it up?

It is up to you to check my entries. I don't need a citation list for my forum posts.
Click to expand...
Yeah, we were discussing a side topic, but having very strong opinions based on something you just vaguely remember is a bit of a red flag for me. That's why I challenged you for links - there's a good chance that the information (that you vaguely remembered and based a strong opinion on) is like a file on disk that got corrupted.

When I'm challenged for links like that, I do provide the links. Yes, there's a good chance that I misunderstood or missed something in what I was reading.
 
FWIW, there IS a FreeBSD User Group, apparently... the Korean FreeBSD User Group on Facebook...

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com
I don't have an account on Facebook, I just stumbled on this while doing a random Internet search... and that group's primary language is Korean. I still think that info is worth posting on the Forums.
 
Zare said:
...they could punish OEMs that don't charge for a mandatory windows installation on the laptop, but put FreeDOS on it and let the user install what they want.
Click to expand...
I've had a good experience with Lenovo a couple of times a few years ago: I added to the cart the computer I want to purchase, then opened their chat and complained that I'm buying hardware, not software, I don't need Windows, why I should pay for that? They gave me $100 discount right away ;-)
 
Returning to the LUG topic, are there any LUGs in Colombia or South America?
The FreeBSD page lists some, but I think they stopped functioning.
 
astyle said:
Yeah, we were discussing a side topic, but having very strong opinions based on something you just vaguely remember is a bit of a red flag for me.
Click to expand...

Exactly where did you pick up that I vaguely remember? I don't remember anything vaguely regarding computers.

"Actually wasn't Italy the one to overrule Microsoft's forcing of the OEMs to have Windows installations on all laptops? They (MS) were claiming hardware is useless without OS therefore it's ok to have Windows preinstalled and charged. Could be 15 years ago."

If you're really nitpicking about 2008 vs 2014 then I guess that's your right.

Otherwise, picking up forum users about giving sources about common knowledge (such as a public court ruling in Italy) and then inputing that their writing style is a red flag for you and claiming there's a good chance their memory is corrupted, while given evidence that isn't so; I mean really. Take another approach to discussions with people because this one is over.

aragats said:
I've had a good experience with Lenovo a couple of times a few years ago: I added to the cart the computer I want to purchase, then opened their chat and complained that I'm buying hardware, not software, I don't need Windows, why I should pay for that? They gave me $100 discount right away ;-)
Click to expand...

That's a good fact to know.
OEMs will largely honour individual user requests, it is dealerships and shops that might be problematic.

And of course we are talking about contemporary times. Laptops aren't the hype they used to be pre-tablets and smartphones. Stuff has changed
 
Zare said:
Exactly where did you pick up that I vaguely remember? I don't remember anything vaguely regarding computers.
Click to expand...
From your own post #41. If something happened 15 years ago, most people would have pretty vague memories about it.


Zare said:
Otherwise, picking up forum users about giving sources about common knowledge (such as a public court ruling in Italy)
Click to expand...
I live in US. Court rulings in EU (or other corners of this planet) are NOT 'common knowledge'. I think challenging people for links in such situations is legitimate. I wouldn't expect a European to know the same stuff as a Brazilian. Depending on where you are on this planet, different things are important to know, and can be considered 'common knowledge'. In all honesty, a red flag in here is refusing to provide links when challenged. I can just as easily call bullshit on the very existence of a specific public court ruling in Italy. But because links have been provided (albeit by people who did not actually have to provide them, unlike you, Zare ), the claim does have some academic validity.
 
aragats said:
I've had a good experience with Lenovo a couple of times a few years ago: I added to the cart the computer I want to purchase, then opened their chat and complained that I'm buying hardware, not software, I don't need Windows, why I should pay for that? They gave me $100 discount right away ;-)
Click to expand...
Thanks for this info. How the computer arrived. Was the Windows on it or not? I guess they do not bother to remove the Windows and
instead just send it out.
 
astyle said:
From your own post #41. If something happened 15 years ago, most people would have pretty vague memories about it.



I live in US. Court rulings in EU (or other corners of this planet) are NOT 'common knowledge'. I think challenging people for links in such situations is legitimate. I wouldn't expect a European to know the same stuff as a Brazilian. Depending on where you are on this planet, different things are important to know, and can be considered 'common knowledge'. In all honesty, a red flag in here is refusing to provide links when challenged. I can just as easily call bullshit on the very existence of a specific public court ruling in Italy. But because links have been provided (albeit by people who did not actually have to provide them, unlike you, Zare ), the claim does have some academic validity.
Click to expand...


I remember where I was with who I was when I read those news, I was in my company and discussing it with colleagues.
I remember details of the projects I did 15 years ago.

"Refusing to provide links", so you did a search, came with nothing, and I failed to deliver? Where I refused exactly? I wrote three sentences in between the "claim" and your red flags post. Are you that kind of a priority that I need to immediately source everything to you, even a simple google search, the first thing before speaking with anyone else?

What the f. about academic validity? We're on a FreeBSD board in a FUG topic, where discussion strayed towards Microsoft and I just put in a tidbit regarding Microsoft. You hooked on to it like we're in Microsoft vs. something discussion. We aren't my man.

You speak like I had do do a job, and somebody else did it for me. The job was Ctrl+T italy microsoft court verdict. And yes the case started in 2010 which is very near ~15 years so I wasn't even that wrong in dating.


smithi said:
Got a link to support your assertion that "most people would have pretty vague memories about it." ? 😈
Click to expand...

Of course he doesn't. He doesn't know my age, nor my specifics of work.
 
smithi said:
Got a link to support your assertion that "most people would have pretty vague memories about it." ? 😈
Click to expand...
Zare said:
Of course he doesn't. He doesn't know my age, nor my specifics of work.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, I wasn't buying into your scrap, just having a dig at the idea of seeking evidence for what's essentially opinion or notions of national allegiances.

That said, anyone who perused The Register in those days, as did I, was well up on EU v. M$ issues; predatory pricing was the term often used in Oz.

(Sorry, no links - differ at will:)
 
astyle said:
FWIW, there IS a FreeBSD User Group, apparently... the Korean FreeBSD User Group on Facebook...

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com
I don't have an account on Facebook, I just stumbled on this while doing a random Internet search... and that group's primary language is Korean. I still think that info is worth posting on the Forums.
Click to expand...

It is called KFUG : so the Italian FreeBSD User Group can be called "IFUG". That's nice.
 
smithi said:
Got a link to support your assertion that "most people would have pretty vague memories about it." ? 😈
Click to expand...
This is an incomplete assertion... I was asserting that most people have rather vague memories of events from 15 years ago. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being "I remember the event for a fact", and 1 being "Did that even happen?", how well would you remember ANYTHING from 15 years ago? Now try polling a few hundred people. For most of them (I imagine 80%), it would be at 3...

neurosciencenews.com

Earliest Memories Can Start From the Age of Two-and-a-Half - Neuroscience News

A new study reveals people are able to recall memories from events that occurred when they were two and a half years old. The findings counter previous research, which reported the earliest memories usually form after the age of three and a half.
neurosciencenews.com neurosciencenews.com
www.science.org.au

How our memory develops

As our brain develops, so does our memory.
www.science.org.au www.science.org.au

Zare said:
I remember where I was with who I was when I read those news, I was in my company and discussing it with colleagues.
I remember details of the projects I did 15 years ago.

"Refusing to provide links", so you did a search, came with nothing, and I failed to deliver? Where I refused exactly? I wrote three sentences in between the "claim" and your red flags post. Are you that kind of a priority that I need to immediately source everything to you, even a simple google search, the first thing before speaking with anyone else?

What the f. about academic validity? We're on a FreeBSD board in a FUG topic, where discussion strayed towards Microsoft and I just put in a tidbit regarding Microsoft. You hooked on to it like we're in Microsoft vs. something discussion. We aren't my man.

You speak like I had do do a job, and somebody else did it for me. The job was Ctrl+T italy microsoft court verdict. And yes the case started in 2010 which is very near ~15 years so I wasn't even that wrong in dating.



Of course he doesn't. He doesn't know my age, nor my specifics of work.
Click to expand...
Sounds like Zare was actually paying attention to the news back then.

I did the search, I figured out the situation. I just wanted to see if Zare would be willing to come up with links of his own that would confirm or deny what I found. That did not happen, and therefore can be taken as refusal to provide links. A few other users did Zare 's job for him. It takes about 3 minutes to open another tab.

No, I don't know your age or where you work, that's OK.

FWIW, I do very vividly remember meeting Y2K in Waikiki. The beach was crowded, and a guy skinny-dipped in the ocean at stroke of midnight - in front of a HUGE crowd. Zare, do you remember that Italian court decision THAT vividly? ;)
 
Zare said:
I remember where I was with who I was when I read those news, I was in my company and discussing it with colleagues.
I remember details of the projects I did 15 years ago.

"Refusing to provide links", so you did a search, came with nothing, and I failed to deliver? Where I refused exactly? I wrote three sentences in between the "claim" and your red flags post. Are you that kind of a priority that I need to immediately source everything to you, even a simple google search, the first thing before speaking with anyone else?

What the f. about academic validity? We're on a FreeBSD board in a FUG topic, where discussion strayed towards Microsoft and I just put in a tidbit regarding Microsoft. You hooked on to it like we're in Microsoft vs. something discussion. We aren't my man.

You speak like I had do do a job, and somebody else did it for me. The job was Ctrl+T italy microsoft court verdict. And yes the case started in 2010 which is very near ~15 years so I wasn't even that wrong in dating.




Of course he doesn't. He doesn't know my age, nor my specifics of work.
Click to expand...

This person has a history of patronizing others with (often hypocritical) pedantic bullshit. Don't waste your time responding to such dogmatic drivel.
 
When it's the time within a month of an occurrence, it's easier to find a source. Later, it gets harder to find, as it gets buried under countless other stories, and Internet searches don't turn up information other than the most recent, unless you know the exact title and source. But we knew about it, before the most recent notable information, from that reliable sources of online information, but that doesn't show up anymore. I believe the search engine quality got bad, as before enough keywords would be enough, either that, or a combination of that and data getting buried.

To do that, you'd have to remember the title, and the source, then you know where to look.

Idk, but I know how it is to remember something, and I know sometimes we get minor bits wrong, but we do remember enough for validity's sake. If the person says so, I believe they remember that, or is close enough to the actual facts. Not blindly of course, as I leave it in the believable and possibly category. You can't always turn up 15 year old information, as nice as it would be to do so. Just something that shows it's on the right track.

I also don't see the point in questioning someone's vivid memory, even when the person found sources that go along with that.
 
sidetone said:
I also don't see the point in questioning someone's vivid memory, even when the person found sources that go along with that.
Click to expand...
Even very vivid memories can be incorrect - which is why there's such a thing as challenges for corroboration and external sources.
 
Alexander88207 said:
Would go there if i would not live on the other side of Germany.
Click to expand...
Me too. :(

And to the squabbeling grannies here - stop it. You know who I mean. It's been some time since someone had a visit to the dog house, and the fleas are getting lonely. *hint hint*
 
Maybe it would be worthwhile to include a new category called User Groups under one of the forum sections.

We could throw it under the Miscellaneous section so that anyone who’s looking to organize/meetup could just look there instead of having to resort to some third party site.

Then again freebsd.org/usergroups/ already exists, but having some space for it here could help draw some extra attention!
 
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