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Closed Is the community become fragile?

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Phishfry

Son of Beastie

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That comment was nasty but I hate to have things rammed down my throat.
When I served in the military there were zero tolerance for gays. So I grew up in another world.
A place where you would lose your security clearance if deviant.
 

geheimnisse

New Member

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Messages: 11

I do hope the "bros" who unironically use "SJW" don't let the door hit them on their way out.

The bros seem like such triggered little snowflakes over this new CoC.
 

gofer_touch

Active Member

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Messages: 246

Wow. I am in awe of what this thread has become, I thought it would be one of those threads where people said "meh" and continued carrying on.

I do think that FreeBSD "the project" should have revised their own code of conduct with home grown and carefully decided language instead of merging in the controversial and divisive overtones that are now inherent in the one that they have adopted.

FreeBSD is a highly technical project that some of the most skilled people in the world contribute to. Some of the language in the new CoC simply does not reflect the professionalism of the project. An outsider is going to read into things like "virtual hugs" and quite frankly have a laughing fit as I almost did.

It is also not a good look for the project that they found the time to rush this new CoC out the door when people running mission critical systems have yet to see a patch for meltdown or spectre. Its really an issue of priorities not quite being where they might need to be.
 
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PrestonGranite

Guest


Wow. I am in awe of what this thread has become, I thought it would be one of those threads where people said "meh" and continued carrying on.
A few years ago I believe that would have been the case, but not here in 2018. There have been too many high profile SJW project takeovers and attacks on innocent team members for nothing other than wrong think.

No one is buying the 'golly, we are just trying to be inclusive' BS.

You can just look at the attacks on anyone daring to question to garbage CoC - everyone doing so is a sexist, homophobe, gamergater, neo-nazi, alt-right, white nationalist, trump supporter, etc.

I am as liberal as one can be and already been called an 'alt right' just for daring to question this garbage.

This is only the beginning. It is only going to get worse.

When you have language in a CoC like:

  • Comments that reinforce systemic oppression related to gender, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, disability, mental illness, neurodiversity, physical appearance, body size, age, race, or religion.
Anything and everything that SJWs disagree with are considered to "reinforce systemic oppression".
 

mefizto

Well-Known Member

Thanks: 6
Messages: 372

Hi roddierod,

Well, I been using dragonFly and I like that...but I screwed up my install doing stuff with hammer that I didn't understand. I have always like OpenBSD but have all nvidia cards otherwise it would be that.
I have been looking at DragonFly for a while, but my understanding is that there is no support for Nvidia cards. Am I wrong?

Kindest regards,

M
 

gofer_touch

Active Member

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Messages: 246

Hi roddierod,

I have been looking at DragonFly for a while, but my understanding is that there is no support for Nvidia cards. Am I wrong?

Kindest regards,

M
Only FreeBSD has full support for Nvidia cards. DragonFly has excellent support for Intel graphics that are mostly on par with what Linux has since they use the same DRM interface from what I understand.

DragonFly would be a logical move for a FreeBSD user, they use the same ports/pkg system and lot of the setup etc. is so similar that the FreeBSD handbook is rather useful.

However there are no really good hypervisors supported (bhyve and virtualbox require a kernel module that has to be ported). Qemu doesn't have hardware acceleration on DragonFly and their virtual kernel seems to only really be useful for testing and debugging kernel code.

Other than that they have pf, a ground up lockless implementation of IPFW3, support for fast filesystem caches (NVME etc.) and it plays well with really new hardware.

For laptops, no suspend/resume unfortunately : ( but low power CPU states are supported which get quite close.

Its also a screamingly fast OS.

Update:

Almost forgot some other bits worth mentioning...

Linux compat is not supported on DragonFly, it was removed entirely (OpenBSD did the same). So you will need natively built applications.

LibreSSL is default.

64-bit only, no other architectures other than x86 are currently supported. Although there has been talk of porting to ARM.

No ZFS support...for volume management you will want a hardware RAID controller. Areca and LSI RAID controllers work very well.

Dragonfly's UFS and FreeBSD's UFS are not compatible. HAMMER1 is rock solid stable HAMMER2 is being actively developed and being prepared for multi-master clustering, networked RAID and self healing.
 
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sidetone

Aspiring Daemon

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I'm tired of hearing about Social Justice Warriors. Too many times, people who accuse others of being that are in fact the ones who are actively try to break, misinterpret, tear down and bend rules to serve themselves and a corrupt power structure. They label a group following regulations or trying to keep things civil as Social Justice Warriors as an excuse to make themselves exempt from any rules or civility even if it does soapbox illegal (for a reason) and abhorrent behavior.

The Code of Conduct is centered around a small group of people, who've tied their identity too much into it. It does not change anything, except for that it will be an annoyance that it intentionally sets a precedent for those who want to constantly remind others that they prefer to be labeled a gender they were not born as. All that is needed is, refer to users by their handle, and what they say they are, so long as it's reasonable. There are cases where pseudonyms are tied to another gender, and this has nothing to do with personal gender identity. For instance, American women authors in the 1800's knew that no one would read their books, if it was known they were female, so they've used male names. This is FreeBSD, we don't need to hear life stories.

* edit - I'm not going to leave FreeBSD overnight. So these problems surrounding an amateurish Code of Conduct and everyone else insulting the operating system over it annoy me. I don't want to see a hostile takeover of an operating system I've liked to use for a long time, by some groups huddling around in social media. I'm going to stick around, and assist those whose intentions are to fix it. People who say they want to leave over a hiccup should just leave, because it appears as if it's being used as leverage (including on social media). If I do leave FreeBSD, it will be on good graces on my opinion of it as an Operating System, to try out another Operating System. Or if I leave, it will be after if criticizing losers (like those with irrational harsh messages on social media) succeed in tearing it down.
 

michael_hackson

Active Member

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Can we agree on that the Code of Conduct can be more or less [pick one] applied to "us" as a community and as long as we still treat others with the same respect as we have done it should be all good? I am not planning on making any specific change since the news about this CoC.
 

herrbischoff

Active Member

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Messages: 165

What I find most interesting about this thread is that it shows exactly why this is such a big deal when it should not be: the whole subject matter speaks to the emotional sensibilities more than to the rational cognitive reasoning. It gets especially bad when both bleed into each other, making it easy to confuse one for the other.

If it truly were no big deal, most people wouldn't have felt motivated to "add their two cents". The exact same dynamics come into play that keep trolls fed everywhere: "hold my beer, someone is wrong on the internet." Opinions are like a**holes, everybody's got one.

A Code of Conduct is just a piece of writing. A piece of writing is way easier to produce and publish than to actually effect change. It is certainly easier than to create new technology. No piece of writing will ever — at the time of its writing — be worth more than the sum of its letters if it doesn't reflect the state of mind of a majority of people. It really doesn't matter.

So the best course of action is to simply ignore certain things. Like if someone confronted you with something absurd, like calling you a "fire hydrant". You'd be irritated, you'd be annoyed but you certainly wouldn't try to argue with this person that you're in fact not a fire hydrant. You'd let to be, shake your head and focus on your goals for the day. You've got more important things to do. Maybe you'd even laugh about it later on. To feel incensed about every little detail will inevitably lead to the same problem many here argue against: the perpetual state of being offended. If something's absurd, ignore it. It won't get any traction without attention.
 

herrbischoff

Active Member

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You can pass a law but if it is ignored by most people and not enforced at all, it is meaningless. If it someday gets enforced, there's enough precedent to argue its invalidity. It's a long way from shouting to be heard to fundamental change.
 

sidetone

Aspiring Daemon

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You can pass a law but if it is ignored by most people and not enforced at all, it is meaningless. If it someday gets enforced, there's enough precedent to argue its invalidity. It's a long way from shouting to be heard to fundamental change.
It matters. Especially when rules are not enforced, and eventually someone will pull up rules for their argument, right or wrong. So those rules better be good, as a foundation.
 

herrbischoff

Active Member

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Then by all means continue to make this non-issue an issue that will continue on and on and alienate contributors. My comment just wanted to point out the absurdity of trying to regulate something like this — and the problem with reacting to people being perpetually offended by being perpetually offended. As long as emotions are involved, there will be no consensus, and there will always be pedantic people building their arguments on the exact letter of the rules. The more rules there are, the more fodder for arguments. You cannot hope to make any rules truly comprehensive.
 

drhowarddrfine

Son of Beastie

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Remember, we're only hearing from people who care enough to comment. I'm betting there are eight times as many ignoring this altogether and many more who haven't read about, won't read about, and don't care at all. The only reason I'm commenting--well--I don't know why I let myself get sucked in. It won't change anything I do now or in the future as far as to how I use FreeBSD and how I use FreeBSD is the only thing that matters to me. This code thing means nothing.
 
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PrestonGranite

Guest


Congrats to the FreeBSD team members who forced this ideological garbage on the community.

You've made it to Slashdot.

I'm sure this critically understaffed open source operating system will have a flood of extremely talented developers lining up to in the new toxic environment where their every word or action can be claimed to be harassment.

BTW, when the FreeBSD foundation gets sued over this fiasco, who is going to be paying? The FreeBSD foundation or the individuals responsible for ramming it down the community's throat?
 
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PrestonGranite

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I and others have begun contacting people and corporations on the FreeBSD Donor List:

FreeBSD Foundation Donors List

Making them aware of this completely unwelcome ideological fiasco and the reactions from the greater development community.

Don't worry, I'm sure all of them will continue to want their donated funds to be used to support a small group of ideologues hijacking the project.
 

sidetone

Aspiring Daemon

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There is plenty of evidence that suggests that PrestonGranite's only purpose here is to stir trouble. He shows up suddenly, and every time the controversy dies down, he starts up a new subject on what to complain about.

I am opposed to how the new Code of Conduct is written, but his behavior around it is most absurd. If anyone is trying to hijack this community it's PrestonGranite.

WE WILL FIX THE CODE OF CONDUCT WITHOUT YOU!
 
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