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Closed Is the community become fragile?

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chrbr

Aspiring Daemon

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Where do all those new members come from that attack others, with their first post allready? Strange times...
May be people who have followed the forum long time without seeing the need to register, or people who have been active on the mailing lists before.
well it's been a quiet and friendly community here for some years now
I am sure it will recover. The problem with the members of the church of political correctness is their absolute claim of the truth.
 

obsigna

Aspiring Daemon

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I find it difficult to see how this CoC (or just about any CoC) could possibly be seen as "political". No offence, but to me that is a bit strange. I admit though, that I may be getting old and politics is no longer what it's been in my previous 60 years of involvement.
Most of us semi-new persons (in order to not to say old) got sisters and brothers, and our mum served everybody equally well. Those of us who got sisters have a relaxed non-oppressive relationship to women by default. Many of the next-generation were the only child, spoon-feeded by mum and otherwise ruling at home. Of course they are irritated about nobody in the real world continues spoon-feeding them. As boys those did not respect their mum, now being asked respecting women, paw. Rules set on the king of the world, paw. CoC, what the f...?
 

obsigna

Aspiring Daemon

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The code of conduct contains the words 'systemic oppression.' Is there a non-political interpretation of that?
A CoC is by its nature politics:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics said:
Politics (from Greek: πολιτικα: Polis definition "affairs of the cities") is the process of making decisions that apply to members of a group.
Of course it is, and I fail to see anything bad about politics, but, picking single phrases for arguing about it out of context is demagogic, and I consider this to be quite bad.

In a descent world the CoC could consist of a single phrase "Be respectful to anybody." Unfortunately, in the real world you have to explain in more detail, what respectful would mean.
 

macondo

Active Member

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Messages: 135

I think the CoC is overrated. How to behave in a tech forum should be common sense.

Some posters are inmature, wannabes who are " giants in their own minds", nobody cares, I don't.
Then there are others who truly contribute to the forums, their advice and examples are truly valuable: Oko, Sir Dice, Cynwulf, Marino, and many others too numerous to remember.

If Joe wants to be called Jane, call him Jane, simple.

If your posts are too dumb for some people, ignore the retorts, time is too short, take out your kids, lock yourself in the bathroom with your secret Apple laptop and be happy.

You are the most important person in the world, if you ain't happy, nobody around you will be happy.
 

sidetone

Aspiring Daemon

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Snurg
I don't take that publication seriously, it didn't even mention any actions against who it accused. If that publication doesn't like someone, because it's against their self interest, they will write bad about them. It's interesting that FreeBSD got a mention there, but it doesn't mean anything. I don't see reason to discuss that link anymore.

And those arguments about the old rules of the forum fall flat. I don't see how anyone interprets that out of it. The old Forum rules are just fine. I don't want to discuss perceived problems of the regular forum rules, it is great as is.
 

sidetone

Aspiring Daemon

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This is where the new Code of Conduct is from https://geekfeminism.org/about/code-of-conduct/

On the imported version, it defines other new terms, but it doesn't define "misgendering". As a basis, it is the wrong rule to add, but for online interaction, it makes little difference. This code of conduct is for the physical world too, and rules about misgendering there have serious implications. However, people shouldn't be reprimanded for using labels that they don't understand, they disagree with, or they think is a fantasy. Apart from the Code of Conduct being unprofessional, rules about misgendering have to go. My impression is that the people who wrote those rules, aren't listening to anyone, because that is final. They are as much to blame for harming FreeBSD as the trolls who I find a nuisance.

My instinctive reaction was, it's a code of conduct that promotes civility, and respect for people's chosen names or handles. The only requirement is, to treat people with respect, including don't show malice to people for being transgender. This is what I thought it was about, and what I agree with.

I've had coworkers who were transgender. And in one case, one (post-op) identified as a woman, but he was not allowed to use the women's restroom. I don't know if they were allowed in the men's restroom, because they didn't enter it. They used a gender neutral or family restroom. If I remember correctly, everyone called him a he, and was polite to that person. The person tried to correct us about he is a she. I didn't argue, but I ignored it, and returned to calling him a he. No one got in trouble for that, and no one should. It is fine with me, if he wants to tell everyone he is a she all day, but no one should ever get in trouble or calling him a he. Another transgender was in HR, who was in hiring position of half of the staff, and if this person said if he is a she, that's it, I'm not arguing. If I had malice towards this person, I wouldn't have gotten in the door. I have no malice towards them.

No one should get in trouble for using labels about gender that they don't agree with or don't understand. I've read an article on the Guardian, where someone was fired for calling a child by the gender they were born as. A child is too young to be having identity crises, and it is wrong to reinforce, and force everyone else to reinforce the idea that a child is a gender they are not. That to me is systematic badly placed reinforcement. At least let the child grow up to be an adult, before they decide there's a gender label they want to identify as.

My other instinctive reaction was, why are there trolls attacking an operating system that I've liked for years. That illustration is shameful to its illustrator. People coming here and trying to coerce others are just as wrong as the problem behind adding rules about misgendering.

Those who supposedly contact companies may be a nuisance to them later on, if they don't do what they say. Neither side should coerce! Don't make us follow a rule that is not related to respect and civility that many don't understand. Don't use threats of leaving and contacting people as leverage. If they were serious about leaving FreeBSD, they wouldn't keep trying to influence it by using coercion. If I want to leave something, I don't drag it out, unless it's difficult for me to do. Those who label others as social justice warriors push their weight around, the same as the opposing people who tie misgendering into rules. These rules about misgendering are akin to SystemD.

I haven't seen evidence of those who wrote those rules addressing its fundamental problems. I'm not going to take a stance of defending FreeBSD anymore.
 

Snurg

Aspiring Daemon

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So sad that the Golden Rule has been superseded by a deeply politically colored ruleset like the new CoC is.
Seems like a box of the pandora has been opened,
I haven't seen evidence of those who wrote those rules addressing its fundamental problems. I'm not going to take a stance of defending FreeBSD anymore.
I can no longer, too.
I feel it like a Machtergreifung of a small, but loud group that claims to be "tolerant", but isn't.

But no matter :)
Because, this new CoC was what made me try out DragonFly BSD...

ZFS is good, but HAMMER is just incredible.
Or things like building kernel, world or some big package... it is blazing fast when you can use all cores.

I feel like discovering technology of tomorrow...
And this technology was made by a small number of extraordinary people that the FreeBSD core team kicked out...

So in the end I am very grateful to the new CoC people for giving me the impulse to try out and migrate to DragonFly :)
Thank you so much!
 

DutchDaemon

Administrator
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We have heard from a sufficient number of you. The FreeBSD Project is aware of this topic and may take away from it whatever it wants or needs. We should get back to being a technical forum. The mods and admins will have an internal discussion on how to proceed.
 

DutchDaemon

Administrator
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Moderator
Developer

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Just in case anyone starts with the censorship nonsense ..

We have to remind ourselves of three things here:
  1. The FreeBSD Forums are not a general discourse forum, they are an end-user-orientated, technical support forum, with some room to let off steam
  2. There was no actual public discussion platform for the FreeBSD Project's CoC when it landed, which means that its fall-out first appeared in the only open platform in existence, the CoC topic on the forums
  3. The forum topic was not opened for that purpose (a general discussion about the CoC); it was opened for a negative, reactionary response to it, and deliberately left open for a while to point the members of the FreeBSD Project to the real-world effects of implementing this CoC (other venues now exist, like Reddit, Slashdot, and other general-purpose IT news aggregators)
The thread has served these three functions and the forums have now returned to their stated core function: being a technical support forum.
 
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