FreeBSD development seems lost

hruodr said:
I can understand that stupid critics are demoralizing, but not all critics can be despised.
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Because obnoxious tantrums from the likes of you and that Retro person have no validity, nor are they of any real concern with regards to the quality or engineering of the base system. When volunteers spend their time and energy putting work into an open source project; then the likes of you come and bash their work/efforts; it makes them feel significantly reluctant to bother.

Making asinine predictions about what will or will not be included in pkgbase vital policies, or FreeBSD "becoming Linux" (wtf does that even mean?) doesn't contribute to any standing issues.

hruodr said:
They think every user has a powerful computer with a lot of RAM and fast like theirs, they think all users are also kernel developers, etc, or the opposite, every user is stupid and needs windows like systems.
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That's objectively false.

Also. As new hardware is released (especially with better/enhanced architecture or firmware - and.. often cheaper); there's less incentive to support existing old hardware. That's technology for you. There's no point is bloating the system with endless compatibility cruft. Upgrade your s**t - because at some point you'll have to. A RPi5 is probably faster than what you have currently.

hruodr said:
I think developers tend to be unempathic with users, everywhere. They think every user has a powerful computer with a lot of RAM and fast like theirs, they think all users are also kernel developers, etc, or the opposite, every user is stupid and needs windows like systems.
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This is a free, open source project; driven by volunteers. You're entitled to nothing. You don't like it? Learn to code and fix the damn thing yourself.

Or happily pay someone to fix it for you.
 
covacat said:
no, it does not
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It does, you'll be surprised. Esp. on compilations of stuff from ground up. They do tend to perform better under specific tasks, and compiling ports under FreeBSD (as well as moving the tarballs) gives you a good idea of how SSD features make a difference in how fast something gets done.
 
blackbird9 said:
Someone else said they removed Perl from the base recently, I must admit I was a bit surprised... I guess sed and awk are still there!
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Following on from bsdimp , it is OpenBSD which has Perl in base (mainly for their packages system unlike i.e Debian which uses it for everything).

sed and awk are very different to Perl in that they are part of POSIX/SUS. They are also less reliant on dependency cruft from CPAN to do trivial things making them feasible to maintain.
 
blackbird9 said:
Perhaps there's a cultural thing here too. In the western tradition, certainly in the uk, we have a healthy culture of "combative robust discussion" 😁 . We slag each other off, raise all kinds of objections and outlandish points, call each other idiots, argue the hell out of things; it's a very effective strategy for arriving at a good solution. We do it in good humour, and don't take it personally. I guess it goes along with western individualism. Whereas some other cultures are different. I remember working with a team of engineers from somewhere in asia, I'd better not say which country; if you gave a talk and then asked them "is there anything you don't understand" no-one would dare to say so, instead they would struggle on regardless to avoid having to admit they didn't understand something; which meant that things didn't get resolved, or took a very long time.
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Didn't realize this kind of thing exists offline, as well... Although I would imagine those debates tended to end in a fair share of bar brawls.

On the topic of audience being unwilling to admit that something is not making sense: It does leave me rather peeved when I see the lengths that people would go to just to avoid admitting that they did not understand a technical point, esp. an important one that frankly changes the whole ballgame. With engineering types, technical points are actually easier, at least for me - do the math, resolve the point, and move on, maybe even share a chuckle when a stubborn technical puzzle gets resolved. I once sketched out a diagram for an engineer I was working with a few years back on my last $JOB - that resolved a sticky point where he did not understand my work, and he said that "Sometimes you do have to beat me over the head with a 2x4 before I understand!". That was said in good humor, of course. At least in this case, we both were willing to admit that there was something that we were not on the same page about, instead of wasting time deluding ourselves with the idea that opposite is true. My point being, putting in some effort to get on the same page with the other person is usually worthwhile.
 
relatedly, one thing we learned when we transitioned genders is that a lot of people who were born men and stayed that way are deeply emotionally invested in those conversations as a way of "winning" a technical dominance game that they assume everyone else is playing against them.
 
astyle said:
Didn't realize this kind of thing exists offline, as well... Although I would imagine those debates tended to end in a fair share of bar brawls.

On the topic of audience being unwilling to admit that something is not making sense: It does leave me rather peeved when I see the lengths that people would go to just to avoid admitting that they did not understand a technical point, esp. an important one that frankly changes the whole ballgame. With engineering types, technical points are actually easier, at least for me - do the math, resolve the point, and move on, maybe even share a chuckle when a stubborn technical puzzle gets resolved. I once sketched out a diagram for an engineer I was working with a few years back on my last $JOB - that resolved a sticky point where he did not understand my work, and he said that "Sometimes you do have to beat me over the head with a 2x4 before I understand!". That was said in good humor, of course. At least in this case, we both were willing to admit that there was something that we were not on the same page about, instead of wasting time deluding ourselves with the idea that opposite is true. My point being, putting in some effort to get on the same page with the other person is usually worthwhile.
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All my best interviews (on either side of the table) wind up with "If I don't know something, I know how to look it up. Usually Stack Overflow".
Engineers: some of the best "discussions" I've been in over the years sound like a death match outside the conference room. Keep it technical, draw pictures on the white board, eventually some says "Oh eff you" and the problem is resolved.
Engineers usually get invested in their solution which leads to hard stuff.
 
Even though this thread is in the Off-Topic forum, can we try to remain at least *somewhat* on topic of the original intent of this thread?

If there are specific issues you have with the development process, please list them, explain why you think so and if possible suggest a better alternative. Then the more knowledgeable among can dispel misunderstandings and ignorance and/or explain their PoV and we can all have a fruitful discussion.

Thank you for your attention to this matter! 😜
 
bakul said:
If there are specific issues you have with the development process
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After every update, even minor, I end troubleshooting, or in other way with a broken system.

For every 'desktop user' is an web browser unavoidable, and unfortunately chrome is unavoidable:
there are web-sites that can only be read with chrome correctly, unfortunately the one of my bank.

Since 14.2 is not anymore supported, I updated to 14.3, and ended without chrome.

They should have a list of 'essential software' and not discontinue a release until in the new this software is supported.
They should give a list of packages that do not work anymore.
 
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