FreeBSD Foundation Flounders on 15 with Rust, pkgbase, and KDE

Well, I tested pkgbase, use of pkgbasify, on FreeBSD 14.3-Release (Latest)I tested three weeks, until the day I had to launch pkg upgrade -f Before my eyes, with great speed .......... deleting name pkgs.... (many).
Thank you, ZFS Snapshots, rollback zroot/Root/14.3-Release
This in a test pc. 😅
 
... must .... not .... respond.......f*ck!

First, I'm a graybeard. I've been using FBSD since the dawn of man.
I've seen iterations of FBSD that some of you can only read about; and for everyone else, being a graybeard is starting to suck! Slowing down, needing thicker glasses, "the blue pill", etc.

.... Word up homies (proc on efnet - well, not anymore) .... damn ... need to stay focus'd.....

FBSD has had changes throughout its lifetime.
FBSD will continue to have changes throughout its lifetime.
Some of those changes will be rolled back if they don't work.

It's really that simple.

The inclusion of KDE as a graphical installer ... so the 'f' what?
So long as there are textish type options for those still using hardware that's ancient then it's a non issue.

The base system is broken up onto several packages now?
So the 'f' what? Just don't want pkg delete -af to remove anything related to base (I use -af all the time)

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Now, the desktop experience on FBSD is a horrible one. It always has been a horrible one.
Just a couple of weeks ago I was installing FreeBSD using an amdgpu graphics card and dual monitor and it simply doesn't work well at all: (https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=288729)
This of course isn't unique to this installation. This has simply been my experience for the past century.
If they want to implement a graphical installer, the keyboard has to work at the very least of all things. (though this isn't a keyboard problem and is instead a amdgpu problem)

FBSD was never known for its desktop prowess and it will never be, in my lifetime.
The simple fact is there aren't enough eyeballs. Those eyeballs are on windows and macos mostly.
Does it work under a specific set of condition w/ a specific set of software? Yeah, sure. But don't expect much more from that.

The base system is broken up onto several packages now?
So the 'f' what? Just don't want pkg delete -af to remove anything related to base (I use -af all the time)

---------------------------------------

I grew up with FBSD when 'the power to serve' ... to me ... meant an awesome server operating system, and it is.
From a servers perspective, there's nothing better.....well mostly. There are exceptions to everything.
If you dabble outside of the "norm" and start trying to implement vpp w/ dpdk or netmap w/ custom ring management ...... yeah don't.
Generally though, you can't go wrong.

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So ... late to the party. Sorry for that. Hoping that initial bit of satire makes up for it.
I think I'm about 10 pages too late here.
Offended by anything I said? The glue is -----> way ... Sniff it. ;)

~Proc
 
pprocacci said:
The inclusion of KDE as a graphical installer ...
Click to expand...
I like the current one. It's fast and simple. Takes me less than 2 - 3 minutes to install FreeBSD. (I've done in more than 15 times in the last week alone). I install FreeBSD a lot. I doubt that will be the same with pkgbase, but hopefully the devs see the light here.

Anyway... I can understand the need for a more 'capable' GUI for the installer. I've gone through the installer many many times in my lifetime. Sometimes you make a mistake and it explodes, or you have to wait for it to explode, or you make it explode on purpose (because you are impatient). A KDE based graphical installer would probably allow a platform for better error control and reverting selections. It kind of sucks that it will probably start a X server.

What I'd like to see is some type of graphical installer that's using the same frame buffer that UEFI graphics are using (if that's what it called).
 
pprocacci said:
Now, the desktop experience on FBSD is a horrible one. It always has been a horrible one.
Just a couple of weeks ago I was installing FreeBSD using an amdgpu graphics card and dual monitor and it simply doesn't work well at all: (https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=288729)
This of course isn't unique to this installation. This has simply been my experience for the past century.
Click to expand...
Before filing a bug on Bugzilla, have you tried to problem-solve on the Forums? Like creating a thread, and providing details on the hardware/gpu that you have, and what kind of setup steps you did?
 
Yeah no. I don't use forums; don't like the format.
Maybe once a year and this is going to be one of those times.
I stick to mailing lists.
 
pprocacci said:
Yeah no. I don't use forums; don't like the format.
Maybe once a year and this is going to be one of those times.
I stick to mailing lists.
Click to expand...
Well, if you've seen the Screenshots thread on the Forums, you'll know what you're missing out on by sticking to your guns. 😩 Esp. if you look on the last page (p. 102 at this time)
CodeBlock

Thread 'FreeBSD Screen Shots'

Going to try to start a trend here ;), if this belongs in another subforum (like window managers), mods feel free to move it :).

I'm a member of the ArchLinux forums (used Arch before coming to FreeBSD) and monthly they have a screenshots thread which is neat because it gives everyone a chance to see some new window managers, configs, styles, themes, etc.

Basically what they do is post a screenshot (thumbnail usually linked to a bigger image) of their desktop, and usually talk about the config a bit. Some of them are quite interesting :).

So instead of our 17 or so window-manager...
  • Thanks
  • Like
 
I'm not sure I'm missing out on anything. This is literally my desktop and it does everything I need. Anything more is just bloat and can instead be gotten on the command line.

1755538503262.png
 
pprocacci said:
Yeah no. I don't use forums; don't like the format.
Maybe once a year and this is going to be one of those times.
I stick to mailing lists.
Click to expand...

Heh; I don't like mailing list formats and prefer forums :p

I don't use mailing lists often though and I'm more familiar with different forums software and BBCode stuff. But discussions I've seen on most lists were good and detailed. Forums feel easier to get into casually, but I'd like to get into mailing lists eventually.

pprocacci said:
I'm not sure I'm missing out on anything. This is literally my desktop and it does everything I need. Anything more is just bloat and can instead be gotten on the command line.

View attachment 23379
Click to expand...
I'm used to a little more eye-candy, but mainly I'm too-used to GNOME flow with flinging my mouse to top-left to switch windows :p Windows and Xfce I'm used to Super key opening the taskbar app launcher.

Windows 95's look is about the minimal I can deal with:

 
Espionage724 said:
Heh; I don't like mailing list formats and prefer forums :p

I don't use mailing lists often though and I'm more familiar with different forums software and BBCode stuff. But discussions I've seen on most lists were good and detailed. Forums feel easier to get into casually, but I'd like to get into mailing lists eventually.


I'm used to a little more eye-candy, but mainly I'm too-used to GNOME flow with flinging my mouse to top-left to switch windows :p Windows and Xfce I'm used to Super key opening the taskbar app launcher.

Windows 95's look is about the minimal I can deal with:

Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm a minimalist. To each their own. You've certainly got a bit more than me but I wouldn't be too disappointed if I had to sit in front of that all the time. ;)
 
pprocacci said:
Does it work under a specific set of condition w/ a specific set of software? Yeah, sure. But don't expect much more from that.
Click to expand...
IMHO, that's the point! I was always of opinion that any Unix/Linux install, including personal desktop, requires competent admin to be functional and enjoyable experience. For personal desktop, user needs to be that admin, and being an admin includes planning hardware purchases. I've been using FreeBSD as my main desktop for last 20 years and I never had problems with some hardware not working. For me, using FreeBSD as my desktop was always only a joy! I do use both Win and OSX professionally, but I never had "eF, not again / what's wrong now" moments with FreeBSD like I often do on MS&Apple platforms. TBH, personally, I don't use bluetooth nor wifi, not because support for them wasn't that good until recently, but I had no need for them (besides, I do believe that signals should go through wires in the orderly fashion, not bouncing around the walls like a drunk fly). Just my 2¢.
 
pprocacci said:
I'm not sure I'm missing out on anything. This is literally my desktop and it does everything I need. Anything more is just bloat and can instead be gotten on the command line.

View attachment 23379
Click to expand...
It can be a pain to try and remember the correct text of commands for friggin' EVERYTHING. Way too prone to typos.

And what about being actually effective in problem-solving? It takes me a week tops to solve a GPU-related problem. Apparenty it takes you up to a year or more to reach the same solution.

And, PR 262803 is not filled out very well. As in:
- Yeah, dmesg is posted, but who has the time and patience to comb through it for details and do some thinking for you? Maybe someone who is bored out of their minds and has nothing better to do.
- Just offhand, what happens if you recompile graphics/drm-kmod from Ports?
- On the Forums, you're far more likely to have your request for help seen by someone who can actually help. In Bugzilla, that 'bug report' will be marked 'not a bug' and closed. 'Cause, y'know, even open enthusiast/hobbyist/expert communities do have policies and procedures lined up and organized so that it's easier to get anything done. FreeBSD Project is no exception.

Man, if I had a Razer laptop like yours, I'd compile my way into a complete, snappy KDE desktop in just a couple days, because I know what to do and how to problem-solve with the available resources.
 
astyle said:
It can be a pain to try and remember the correct text of commands for friggin' EVERYTHING. Way too prone to typos.

And what about being actually effective in problem-solving? It takes me a week tops to solve a GPU-related problem. Apparenty it takes you up to a year or more to reach the same solution.

And, PR 262803 is not filled out very well. As in:
- Yeah, dmesg is posted, but who has the time and patience to comb through it for details and do some thinking for you? Maybe someone who is bored out of their minds and has nothing better to do.
- Just offhand, what happens if you recompile graphics/drm-kmod from Ports?
- On the Forums, you're far more likely to have your request for help seen by someone who can actually help. In Bugzilla, that 'bug report' will be marked 'not a bug' and closed. 'Cause, y'know, even open enthusiast/hobbyist/expert communities do have policies and procedures lined up and organized so that it's easier to get anything done. FreeBSD Project is no exception.

Man, if I had a Razer laptop like yours, I'd compile my way into a complete, snappy KDE desktop in just a couple days, because I know what to do and how to problem-solve with the available resources.
Click to expand...

This isn't my first rodeo. I probably know most switches to most commands. Hell, I even know the switches to most commands that are gnu centric.
I've literally spent my entire life reading man pages and executing said commands. There are some outliers, but generally they don't change.
I'm not prone to typos. Yeah sure it happens, but only when my fingers are flying at 110 wpm.

Regardless of what they decide to do in regards to the report I really don't care about.
It's there to let them know there is a problem ... and there is. I've moved on already to a desktop that works and that's that.
I had jumped through the hoops of trying *both* drm packages that are available and C'est la vie .. absolute shit.
I'm not capable of furthering that bug report more than I already have. The next person who runs in the issue can continue with it.
I've got more important things to do than worry about some graphical issue on an OS that's known for being less than stellar on a desktop env.

I don't have a razor laptop. I have a razor mouse and keyboard on a modern desktop.
.. and yeah, compilation speed is pretty nuts. Not as quick as my 128 core server but it's damn fast.
 
astyle said:
And what about being actually effective in problem-solving? It takes me a week tops to solve a GPU-related problem.
Click to expand...
I got most of that fun troubleshooting out of the way on Linux with years of dual-graphics laptops, HiDPI, and Xorg/Wayland experience :p (non-NVIDIA seems about the same conf Linux and FreeBSD)

Hosting a wiki lets me take notes while problem solving. I had openSUSE with Xfce down good, and used my notes on that as a base for FreeBSD 14.1 (old starting notes). Over-time I found new problems, solved em, noted it, got bored and found other things to change, and now have better 14.3 notes (that'll likely get edited more later tonight when I get around to reinstalling :p)
 
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