People have forgotten what "audio quality" is

[covacat]

a lot of people buy vinyl because it's a trend. many of the vinyl buyers have shitty gear anyway
when sony dat came along the audiophile community said it could never sound like the original analog source. then none of them could tell in a blind a/b test the original analog source from the source passed through the sony adc and dac. so there.
also search for richard clark's (car) audio amplifier challenge and see how people coulnd't tell $5000 monoblocks from $20 walmart blister amplifiers in controlled a/b tests

 

[cracauer@]

I have (some) vinyl not because I think the medium is better in any particular way.

The issue is that there are several albums that have never had a high quality CD release. There are instances of the initial CD having white noise and while you are waiting for a fixed one they release a "remaster" (don't get me started on those). There are also different cuts such as shorter guitar solos on some CDs. Sometimes it is more straightforward to get the vinyl and be sure it is the original.

 

[Isoux]

Isoux Old school very nice. Some may say "I'll see your transistors and raise you a vacuum tube"

Woooow… you really shouldn’t have brought this up — vacuum tubes, now you’ve only got yourself to blame…
Just kidding, of course — but that’s actually my real obsession.


I’m currently building a push-pull EL84 vacuum tube amplifier with toroidal output transformers, rated at 2 × 15 watts into speakers.
Once it’s finished, I’ll definitely post some photos.

 

[MrBSD]

a lot of people buy vinyl because it's a trend. many of the vinyl buyers have shitty gear anyway
when sony dat came along the audiophile community said it could never sound like the original analog source. then none of them could tell in a blind a/b test the original analog source from the source passed through the sony adc and dac. so there.
also search for richard clark's (car) audio amplifier challenge and see how people coulnd't tell $5000 monoblocks from $20 walmart blister amplifiers in controlled a/b tests

I have read about such tests in almost every non audio related category. I remember they conducted similar test with gamers gaming on a 60hz and 120hz monitors, and it turned out they could not tell a difference between 60 and 120hz which is total bs. These a/b tests are bunch of lies that people adopt to whatever topic they are discussing and are used to discredit people with actual knowledge. Please stop doing that.

 

[bakul]

The classism of "Audio quality" should be tempered with the purpose of music, which is to connect with a listener's emotions. If you listen to an old favorite of yours after a long time you'll connect with it even if the audio quality is not great - may be because your mental "recording" can fill in the gaps. Conversely you won't start liking some music you dislike even if played on the highest quality equipment. I suspect people connect with music better on vinyl records better because of its imperfections which makes it unique.

 

[atax1a]

brian eno had something to say about this in 1995

Whatever you now find weird, ugly, uncomfortable and nasty about a new medium will surely become its signature. CD distortion, the jitteriness of digital video, the crap sound of 8-bit - all of these will be cherished and emulated as soon as they can be avoided. It’s the sound of failure: so much modern art is the sound of things going out of control, of a medium pushing to its limits and breaking apart. The distorted guitar sound is the sound of something too loud for the medium supposed to carry it. The blues singer with the cracked voice is the sound of an emotional cry too powerful for the throat that releases it. The excitement of grainy film, of bleached-out black and white, is the excitement of witnessing events too momentous for the medium assigned to record them.

A quote from A Year With Swollen Appendices

Whatever you now find weird, ugly, uncomfortable and nasty about a new medium will surely become its signature. CD distortion, the jitteriness of digital...

www.goodreads.com

 

[bakul]

A classic example of distorted guitar sound

Also see https://ig.ft.com/life-of-a-song/rumble.html

 

[cracauer@]

The classism of "Audio quality" should be tempered with the purpose of music, which is to connect with a listener's emotions. If you listen to an old favorite of yours after a long time you'll connect with it even if the audio quality is not great - may be because your mental "recording" can fill in the gaps. Conversely you won't start liking some music you dislike even if played on the highest quality equipment. I suspect people connect with music better on vinyl records better because of its imperfections which makes it unique.

There's truth in that. I am actually better than I was at enjoying music (songs I like) in contexts that don't provide very high fidelity. When I get a new CD I actually listen to it in the car.

That reminds me that I have a BSW (now Bavsound) set of speakers for my e89 that I never put it. What's up with that?

 

[drhowarddrfine]

My hearing is shot but I can still hear the difference between high quality output and run of the mill.

A boss of mine, years ago, crafted some homemade speakers and showed them off by playing something that had deep resonate bass and tinkling glass at the same time. It was amazing.

 

[MrBSD]

The classism of "Audio quality" should be tempered with the purpose of music, which is to connect with a listener's emotions. If you listen to an old favorite of yours after a long time you'll connect with it even if the audio quality is not great - may be because your mental "recording" can fill in the gaps. Conversely you won't start liking some music you dislike even if played on the highest quality equipment. I suspect people connect with music better on vinyl records better because of its imperfections which makes it unique.

This is something that majority of people would never understand. And it is one of the major reasons why big audio players are still making tube amplifiers with hefty price tag. Ive seen comparisons in audio quality between tube and mos-fet/transistor amps. If we are talking about raw sound quality, then yes. Modern tech is far superior. But this comparison is invalid. What tube amps do, they are coloring the sound in a specific way and it lies to you convincingly. This sound coloring/processing is what audiophiles are chasing so the music from that era can sound as close as it did when it was produced. It is all about that emotion. Buying a half a million bucks tube amp, and then listening modern digitally produced music is just stupid. The worst part is, music overall has gone to shit ever since music producers started relying on digital technology waaaaaaaaaaaaay to much. Everything is way to compressed, loud and lifeless. Not to mention tone deaf "singers" that sound like robots because they are heavily processed by melodyne.

 

[Crivens]

We once made a test: play the same song from mp3, CD and vinyl and switch the different sources from a mix board. You can hear the difference (okay, that was equipment others buy a car for, 4 digits vinyl player and so on). Since then, my music gets stored in mp3 320 for car stereo and flac for the rest. Not all systems take flac or 1 bit.

 

[MrBSD]

We once made a test: play the same song from mp3, CD and vinyl and switch the different sources from a mix board. You can hear the difference (okay, that was equipment others buy a car for, 4 digits vinyl player and so on). Since then, my music gets stored in mp3 320 for car stereo and flac for the rest. Not all systems take flac or 1 bit.

Yup. Such tests go both ways. Although, you really dont need a very high end system to hear the difference. If you have a pair of healthy ears, you can hear the difference. There is this alleged story about a/b/c testing. There was a 10k sound system, 100k sound system, and a real live band. And this audiophile dude was able to hear the difference between 10k and 100k sound system. And when the live band started playing, he said, if this is not a live band, ill buy this system right away. I never bothered fact checking this, because i heard this story so many times, it kinda makes me throw up a little. My point is, audiophiles sometimes go to insane heights to justify their insanity. I myself have spent too much money on my system, but this is peanuts money compared to what some people do. Sometimes i just want to sit down and listen to music and not caring too much from where its coming from. I dont want to shit on people that enjoy mp3 music, but im also not going to defend and advocate for insanity such as multi million audio setups.

 

[Crivens]

There is this old german saying which translates roughly to : "Wanted: Fishing rod, most expensive"
Some people only measure how much they pay for something, not seeing that that is no measure for quality. There are things that are worthless the moment you can buy them.

 

[hruodr]

I myself have spent too much money on my system,

But you have only spoken about format.

I think, speakers / headphones is the most critical part. Amplifier is less problematic and today more less problematic in spite of the transistor due to technical development, then the player. I used a cheap Sony CD Player and substituted it just with a normal audio card of a normal thin client after saving CDs in flash memory.

It is a question of balance, but the importance of parts to balance have very different weight.

The problems these parts produce are still present in the worse formats.

It has no sense to spend a lot of money for the most modern format if you do not have the right speakers.

 

[MrBSD]

But you have only spoken about format.

Thats how this thread started. I see no point in flexing my setup here. I hate showing off.

I think, speakers / headphones is the most critical part. Amplifier is less problematic and today more less problematic in spite of the transistor due to technical development, then the player. I used a cheap Sony CD Player and substituted it just with a normal audio card of a normal thin client after saving CDs in flash memory.

There is no "most critical part" in audio setup. Audio systems should be observed as a whole. I understand your point of view. You can buy a nice set of expensive and capable speakers, and then power them with cheap amp and crappy set of cables, and you can get a nice sound out that system. If that makes you happy, i have no problem with that.

It is a question of balance, but the importance of parts to balance have very different weight.

The problems these parts produce are still present in the worse formats.

It has no sense to spend a lot of money for the most modern format if you do not have the right speakers.

Again. Audio systems are not just speakers. One of the most important, and most ignored factors when it comes to audio, is the room and speaker placement. Another key factor is the music itself. Who produced it and how good they are with music production. Who mastered or re-mastered your music. How skillful was producer and mastering engineer and in what format are you listening your music. These are important things because it doesnt matter how good or capable your system is, a badly produced and mastered music is always going to sound like shit. And to be perfectly clear, its not all about mastering and production quality. There is a lot of very high quality sounding music that is total garbage musicaly.

 

[hruodr]

a badly produced and mastered music is always going to sound like shit

yes, also the cables and placement are very important. And the different parts must be compatible.

But to hear a bad record from a cheap CD player is necessary to expend disproportionately much more on the speakers.

I wanted to say: the importance is weighted with very different weights.

 

[MrBSD]

Its extremely complex topic on which majority of people have very simplistic view. And there is nothing wrong with that. Do what makes YOU happy.

 

[hruodr]

Do what makes YOU happy.

As said above, today I would expend the money in very good, open monitor headphones, and then an adequate
DAC to connect to a thin client. That is my simplistic solution, I do not need more than that.

I reached 30 years ago something satisfactory without expending a lot, today prices are much higher,
but there are much more possibilities.

 

[kent_dorfman766]

A classic example of distorted guitar sound

Also see https://ig.ft.com/life-of-a-song/rumble.html

I'll have a side of Jimi Hendrix instead, if you don't mind.

 

[kent_dorfman766]

With my "loud bang" upper range hearing loss being what it is, I'm satisfied by the AAC audio quality of officially posted utube music. Anything more and I would not be able to tell the difference.

 

[loveydovey]

Rant warning. There's no EasyEffects on FreeBSD? You can make any music sound mindblowing with that. That's one shocker about switching to FreeBSD from Linux that I am having a hard time stomaching. Is there something like EasyEffects on FreeBSD? Do you all not want to use FreeBSD to listen to amazing sound?

 

[mer]

I'll have a side of Jimi Hendrix instead, if you don't mind.

Or a bit of SRV.

 

[cracauer@]

Rant warning. There's no EasyEffects on FreeBSD? You can make any music sound mindblowing with that. That's one shocker about switching to FreeBSD from Linux that I am having a hard time stomaching. Is there something like EasyEffects on FreeBSD? Do you all not want to use FreeBSD to listen to amazing sound?

I use Jamin, a mastering plugin, at some times to "fix" messed up tracks or prepare some songs for car listening.

From a quick look most of what EasyEffects offers is not something I would apply to an already mixed and mastered track.

 

[loveydovey]

I use Jamin, a mastering plugin, at some times to "fix" messed up tracks or prepare some songs for car listening.

From a quick look most of what EasyEffects offers is not something I would apply to an already mixed and mastered track.

You do not know what you are talking about...try it, I guess try it on a linux vm or something. I guess you have to know what you are doing, it's some advanced knobs and settings, but you can achieve 10x more amazing sound than plain audio.

 

[cracauer@]

You do not know what you are talking about...try it, I guess try it on a linux vm or something. I guess you have to know what you are doing, it's some advanced knobs and settings, but you can achieve 10x more amazing sound than plain audio.

I am actually familiar with all the effects in there.