Opera 12.00 released

I reinstalled this version of opera without GTK2; it seemed to crash way more often than previously otherwise (with several tabs open) and no longer recovered them upon restart. Still seems to not do so, but crashes less often now.
 
My Opera 12.0 never has any crash experience. I run Opera 12.0 on my two laptops. Both are X.org Server 1.10.6. I install my Xorg 7.5.2 with
Code:
WITH_NEW_XORG=yes
in /etc/make.conf

One laptop is FreeBSD 9-STABLE KMS with Intel GMX4500. Another is FreeBSD 9-STABLE UMS with ATI 4200.

In my observation, Opera runs smoother in FreeBSD 9-STABLE with Intel KMS than in FreeBSD 9-STABLE with ATI UMS. I can even boost up Opera 12.0 using its experimental full hardware acceleration feature in KMS without any error.
 
Flash plugin was working fine in 11.xx version. Now about:plugins shows nothing. If someone knows how to put it back...
 
Just upgraded opera-devel so I could install the addons.opera.com theme "Gray Cat". (Former version crashed when attempting to activate it after install.) Just posting to point others to that theme, the best I recall ever seeing for any browser...
 
I've had my system hang several times while using Opera 12, such that I think that Opera 12 might be the source... The main reason I don't use it all that often, though, is the same reason that I have neglected previous versions. It's a great browser, but even with my tweaks and modifications the interface just isn't as powerful when it comes to keyboard interaction as, say, Conkeror. I know that's not what they're going for, so it's not a fault of the browser per se, it's just something that I struggle to get past even though the performance and web standards support is a lot better than the aforementioned Conkeror and its ancient (at least under FreeBSD) version of XULrunner.
 
graudeejs said:
Wow, that's an interesting statement.
I don't know any other bowser where you can configure key bindings as much as with opera.
What exactly you can't configure?

P.S.
Have you seen this?
http://my.opera.com/Blazeix/blog/vimperator-for-opera

I sure have :) I've been an Opera user on-and-off for many years, and for most of those years I used Blazeix's code to provide Vimperator-like behavior for Opera; I even incorporated some of his code (specifically, the JS for hinting) into my own code for Emacs/Conkeror-like behavior.

The problem (and again, this is _fault_ or flaw in Opera), as Blazeix himself points out, is not so much that you can't rebind keys in Opera, it's that Opera is not modal (important for Vim), nor does it have anything that resembles a modeline or echo area (very important for Emacs). All you have, in fact, is a URL bar.

The limitations of the Opera interface become immediately apparent as soon as you consider something as simple as command/URL completion. Opera has auto-completion for URLs and site names stored in history/bookmarks, but when you are presented with several matches for a particular term, you cannot <TAB> complete to the desired match; instead, you have to resort to the rather cumbersome (for Emacs and Vi users, at least) use of the up and down arrows.

Speaking of completion, hinting seems to be limited to numbers. For instance, if you were on IMDB and you hit "f" to invoke hint numbers, you could, under Vimperator or Conkeror, type imdb to narrow the available selections to only links containing the letters "imdb", or you could narrow it down even further if you were only looking for a link to IMDB Pro by typing "pro." In Opera, however, you must type the corresponding number code from the total list of links -- though this could be a limitation of Blazeix's code, I suppose... I'm certainly no expert when it comes to Javascript.

Another limitation -- and this is a big one -- is that Opera does not provide either Vi- or Emacs-like editing for text fields. For instance, in Emacs M-b = backward-word ("Move backward until encountering the beginning of a word"), whereas in Opera there is no corresponding function that you could even bind a key sequence to. This wouldn't necessarily be a big deal, except that I'm also not aware of there being a way that one might call or embed an external editor for text fields.

I could go on... and on, but I think these examples amply illustrate what I'm trying to get at.

Again, though, I'm not asserting that Opera is a lousy browser because of these things, just that I personally find its interface somewhat/frustrating as someone who is a heavy user of Emacs (and before that, Vim). Near as I can tell, Opera does as good a job as any other web-browser developer in delivering an intuitive, relatively easy-to-use GUI interface, and also includes a bevy of handy keyboard shortcuts for more advanced users. Opera isn't aimed at the sorts of users who are into Conkeror, Vimperator, Uzbl, etc. so I'm not about to fault them on the comparison.
 
My experience has been similar to @purgatori. Opera has a nice engine, and it's hands down faster than Firefox and uses way less resources, but I (we) are just not the target user. I tried to make it work, but it was like trying to fit the square into the circular hole.

www/uzbl is quite usable now, although it takes a bit of work messing with the configuration files and the javascript/python/shell scripts. It's at least as snappy as Opera on my ten-year-old laptop and it's on the right track for what I'm looking for: a completely keyboard driven browser with customizable bindings and no bloat. The downside is that it's just not quite polished and the pace of development doesn't seem as fast as in the past.

For now I usually settle with Firefox/pentadactyl, but spending time in uzbl reminds me how bloated and slow it feels.

I'm looking forward to the day when Xwidgets is ready in Emacs, then browsers like ezbl will exist. With one Emacs frame you can have buffers with terminal sessions, browsers, irc, image viewers, etc. all with a consistent interface and tight integration.
 
jrm said:
My experience has been similar to @purgatori. Opera has a nice engine, and it's hands down faster than Firefox and uses way less resources, but I (we) are just not the target user. I tried to make it work, but it was like trying to fit the square into the circular hole.

www/uzbl is quite usable now, although it takes a bit of work messing with the configuration files and the javascript/python/shell scripts. It's at least as snappy as Opera on my ten-year-old laptop and it's on the right track for what I'm looking for: a completely keyboard driven browser with customizable bindings and no bloat. The downside is that it's just not quite polished and the pace of development doesn't seem as fast as in the past.

For now I usually settle with Firefox/pentadactyl, but spending time in uzbl reminds me how bloated and slow it feels.

I'm looking forward to the day when Xwidgets is ready in Emacs, then browsers like ezbl will exist. With one Emacs frame you can have buffers with terminal sessions, browsers, irc, image viewers, etc. all with a consistent interface and tight integration.

Thank you for doing a much better job of summing it up than I was able to.

In my experience, as someone running on pretty dated hardware, nothing (including Uzbl) quite equals Opera for speed and resource-friendliness -- excepting of course the non-graphical browsers, or the minimally graphical browsers like links or dillo2. Uzbl fared a lot better for me, though, than did the Mozilla-based browsers (including my beloved Conkeror), and I had a lot of fun hacking it... at least until I tired of new versions messing with old configs/conventions, and my laziness called for something that more-or-less "just worked."

Ezbl is something that I am very excited about, and it's probably about the only thing that I could imagine might replace Conkeror for me. emacs-w3m is fine, and I use it a lot, but to have something within Emacs that could obviate the need for an external browser altogether would be fantastic.
 
wblock@ said:
They did, it's called emacs.
Then they shouldn't complain about Opera or Firefox (or <your favourite desktop app>) doing this and doing that or not doing this and not doing that.

A desktop environment should be self contained one.
 
SR_Ind said:
Then they shouldn't complain about Opera or Firefox (or <your favourite desktop app>) doing this and doing that or not doing this and not doing that.

A desktop environment should be self contained one.

That means the only desktop environments are KDE and Gnome. And nobody would be using Opera or Firefox anyway since they've already got a web browser.
 
ChalkBored said:
That means the only desktop environments are KDE and Gnome. And nobody would be using Opera or Firefox anyway since they've already got a web browser.
Some gents above claimed that Emacs is a desktop environment by itself.

For example, as opposed to Emacs lovers here, XFCE user's don't complain about Gnome, leave aside KDE.

Another thing is Emacs lovers brag about it being an IDE as well, so I take it they are accomplished to average programmers. Are they up to the task to put things together for themselves?
I have a desktop environment of sorts hacked together with Qt apps, it is self contained with dependence limited to QtCore, QtGui and QMake. This required lots of programming hours, but the result is very satisfying. Why complain about something you don't pay for? I'll release my desktop apps very soon...working on ports. This is how open source works.

And yeah, keeping with this thread...I've rolled back to Opera 11.64, but a very satisfied Opera user.
 
SR_Ind said:
Some gents above claimed that Emacs is a desktop environment by itself.

For example, as opposed to Emacs lovers here, XFCE user's don't complain about Gnome, leave aside KDE.

Another thing is Emacs lovers brag about it being an IDE as well, so I take it they are accomplished to average programmers. Are they up to the task to put things together for themselves?
I have a desktop environment of sorts hacked together with Qt apps, it is self contained with dependence limited to QtCore, QtGui and QMake. This required lots of programming hours, but the result is very satisfying. Why complain about something you don't pay for? I'll release my desktop apps very soon...working on ports. This is how open source works.

And yeah, keeping with this thread...I've rolled back to Opera 11.64, but a very satisfied Opera user.

You seem to have a bone to pick with "Emacs lovers" for some reason that I won't speculate upon. Just a couple of things for your edification, though:

1. The "Emacs lovers" weren't "complaining" about Opera in this thread. I went out of my way to make it clear that I think Opera is a great browser, and I pointed out, multiple times, that I wasn't criticizing Opera: I was merely explaining why, despite it being a great browser, I don't use it. How is that "complaining"?

2. It does not follow that because Emacs users "brag" about Emacs being an IDE (do they? wouldn't it be more a statement of fact?), everyone who uses Emacs is an "accomplished to average programmer." Emacs is is an IDE, but that is not all it is. I can tell you right now, that if you're able to hack QTCore, etc. you're a more "accomplished" programmer than I; I am a novice, at best.
 
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