Lennart Poettering goes to Microsoft

It's pretty sad to see FreeBSD forums are moving to that stupid MS hate that drove me off the linux community some 20 years ago.
People here have suffered both, Microsoft and Lennart. I'm nonetheless pretty sure they will give credit where credit is due.
 
It's pretty sad to see FreeBSD forums are moving to that stupid MS hate that drove me off the linux community some 20 years ago.

Honestly, It sounds like 20 years ago, the Linux communities didn't manage to demonstrate quite enough hate to prevent Microsoft from ruining their interests. There must have been too many Microsoft apologists wriggling around the community by then.

These days, Linux acts as a good buffer to prevent Microsoft (and certainly other scum) from ruining FreeBSD. This is probably the best feature of Linux ;)
 
It's pretty sad to see FreeBSD forums are moving to that stupid MS hate that drove me off the linux community some 20 years ago.
TBH I would not even be surprised if most of responses were made from those who somehow are still Linux users today, that could explain why a thread that has a Linux subject can reach 6 pages on a BSD forum.
It reminds me the other discussion called "docker is dead", for me it is the same thing "Let's talk about something we dislike".

My advice: Don't focus your mind on what you don't like, this way you won't waste your time in endless criticisms.
 
responses were made from those who somehow are still Linux users today, that could explain why a thread that has a Linux subject can reach 6 pages on a BSD forum.
The FreeBSD community tends to be made up of people who are of working age. It would be surprising to me to find any person working professionally in the industry who doesn't encounter and use a number of different operating systems.

Interoperability with other operating systems is a complex topic (especially for "duct tape" ones like Linux) and the forums has *much* more than 6 pages on the matter if you search around.

It is also an element of "know thy enemy", so you can see where they make mistakes (i.e Lennart Poettering in general for Linux) and we can ensure the error doesn't propagate across the interop boundary. Some people watch crime dramas. Others like to watch the murder of Linux. Its all good fun. The latter is just more relevant to us.
 
It's pretty sad to see FreeBSD forums are moving to that stupid MS hate that drove me off the linux community some 20 years ago.
Yeah, not sorry.

I was a Microsoft MCSE in the late '90s and my day job was to support engineering teams using MS desktops and servers. I earned the right to bitch about Redmond through many sleepless nights and stressful days spent trying to get their broken crapware to work.

One of the most liberating things I did at the time was replacing an Exchange server with a Freebsd box running Sendmail. The Exchange thing demanded new and expensive hardware, would get stuck in mail loops, fill up its disk, and crash about once a week. External email was then down for the whole company for a day as we struggled to recover the damn thing. I ran the Freebsd server on a cast-off old workstation. I set it up and we literally didn't look at it again for years. It just worked.
 
This isn’t about hate. It is about working good and MS still has a bad name for it as it fails to comply with RFCs. They are the only servers that have mail issues still and I am really surprised to read that BSD forums are moving there. I have used faithfully *BSDs for so many decades and I was never let down. I am really socked and surprised to read this. MS has been always unreliable and still is to my eyes in a few projects including their mail system. How can the most reliable OS move to non reliable servers?
 
Others like to watch the murder of Linux. Its all good fun. The latter is just more relevant to us.
It's boredom. All of my FreeBSD stuff works, so I have nothing to complain about. I have to use Linux at work, and the more they ruin it, the harder my job becomes.

I don't hate Microsoft, certainly in a foaming at the mouth, resentful kind of way. I have to use it at work. I have some 7 installs at home for games and we have an xbox, but for the most part I dislike their stuff and they haven't really changed their tactics from the old EEE days - I with the apologists would stop deluding themselves and trying to mislead others with regard to that.

There are many things about Windows and other MS products which are majorly annoying and come from excessive complexity and the use of the registry for almost everything. If you have to work with it, as I do, it becomes something you suffer, not something you enjoy.
 
It's boredom. All of my FreeBSD stuff works, so I have nothing to complain about. I have to use Linux at work, and the more they ruin it, the harder my job becomes.
I don't think it is boredom, it more likely is rage that this what simply works (at least for us) will stop doing that because of $UPSTREAM and their bowing to the narcissm of some. The same with Microsoft. Is there a protocol they did not, ahem, "enhance" for their usage?
 
This isn’t about hate. It is about working good and MS still has a bad name for it as it fails to comply with RFCs. They are the only servers that have mail issues still and I am really surprised to read that BSD forums are moving there. I have used faithfully *BSDs for so many decades and I was never let down. I am really socked and surprised to read this. MS has been always unreliable and still is to my eyes in a few projects including their mail system. How can the most reliable OS move to non reliable servers?

Maybe, just maybe (and this is a big maybe), we need to take a good hard look at ourselves and stop complaining about The Microsoft Model™ and hop on the motherfucking gravy train?

Or do you prefer to get paid money for twiddling your thumbs all day?

Mo patches mo money.

Feel me dawg? :cool:
 
Maybe, just maybe (and this is a big maybe), we need to take a good hard look at ourselves and stop complaining about The Microsoft Model™ and hop on the motherfucking gravy train?

Or do you prefer to get paid money for twiddling your thumbs all day?

Mo patches mo money.

Feel me dawg? :cool:
It's all about the dead presidents.
 
TBH I would not even be surprised if most of responses were made from those who somehow are still Linux users today, that could explain why a thread that has a Linux subject can reach 6 pages on a BSD forum.
The thing about Linux is that it nowadays has a trickle down effect on FreeBSD: apps get developed with Linux on mind only, then they get ported to FreeBSD and you've got suddenly linuxy stuff under FreeBSD nobody asked for, like Pulseaudio, Avahi or other things. Or even worse a whole DE like GNOME, which works under Linux with systemd only.

So sub standard stuff which is everywhere under Linux more and more infects FreeBSD as well. So even if being an exclusively FreeBSD only user it is really easy to fill in this forum threads with Linux stuff, like "How to get rid of Pulseaudio", "Why Wayland is Linux centric and therefore a bad thing", "How to watch Netflix under FreeBSD" and so on.
 
sorry
I don't particularly recall that much joy in computing, 25+ years ago, though I can appreciate the sentiment.
let me recall you, at that time, a bug in a simple C program running in a Mac resulted 50% times in system hang, reboot needed!!!!! Windows … do not remember, blue screens maybe. Compiling was a sequence of click in a particular ide (code warrior), options where well hidden check boxes, documenting any procedure was hard, since there was a silly gui for everything. Change from C to Pascal? pc to mac hardware, You must change it all. When i moved to Linux i could compile with a freesoftware compiler, in freesoftware editor Emacs, compile in a shell with a Makefile. Bugs resulted in the program hanging or being terminated, not the computer! Close the xterm, open another and you are back in business. At the computer lab i was using an Alpha, in my home a regular pc, still both had the same GUI(Wmaker), same shell, same OS. Later i installed the same in MIPs(?) mac laptop, the white one, it was really cool. For once, i felt the computer was mine, the decision of making them fast or slow was mine. Change graphics elements, change menus, virtual desktops … it was freedom ! Fast forward, Windows 11, they removed cut/paste from labels from the menu, you don’t like it? They don’t care. Merry Christmas to FreeSoftware, BSD and GNU, the only one where you can choose, the only one where you have some rights. bye . Written from iPad, it will come the time also the tablet will be liberated, and i will rejoy.
 
apps get developed with Linux on mind only

[...]

So sub standard stuff which is everywhere under Linux more and more infects FreeBSD as well. So even if being an exclusively FreeBSD only user it is really easy to fill in this forum threads with Linux stuff, like "How to get rid of Pulseaudio", "Why Wayland is Linux centric and therefore a bad thing", "How to watch Netflix under FreeBSD" and so on.
Back in the days it was exactly this but with Windows: End-user applications got developed with Windows on mind only.
As such, kudos to Linux: Linux tried so hard to displace Windows that they became the new Windows - but then with all the disadvantages of mainstream FOSS 🤡
In fact, Linux succeeded so hard in displacing Windows that even Microsoft is doing Linux now.
 
"Microsoft Linux" has ceased to be an oxymoron.
no, I am sorry. In the companies (at least in mine) we wish we could get rid of Windows once and for all. But, for example, there is huge resistance in dropping MS-Office (for LibreOffice), MS never ported it to Linux, they ported only what we don't want : Teams. They could, there is in the Mac, they just don't want. (2) CAD, huge problem (3) Drivers another problem. AFAIHear Microsft uses all monoplist blackmail practices to avoid these problem getting solved and pushes hard to get its plague OS installed in all hardware. So, no, Microsoft is an enemy of FreeSoftware. If they contribute to the Kernel or something its only because they plan to take advantage of it.
 
no, I am sorry. In the companies (at least in mine) we wish we could get rid of Windows once and for all. But, for example, there is huge resistance in dropping MS-Office (for LibreOffice), MS never ported it to Linux, they ported only what we don't want : Teams. They could, there is in the Mac, they just don't want. (2) CAD, huge problem (3) Drivers another problem. AFAIHear Microsft uses all monoplist blackmail practices to avoid these problem getting solved and pushes hard to get its plague OS installed in all hardware. So, no, Microsoft is an enemy of FreeSoftware. If they contribute to the Kernel or something its only because they plan to take advantage of it.
This sounds a bit like your typical group of people working at a company hating at Microsoft Windows just because it has become company culture.

Microsoft has proven not to be an enemy of free software countless times by now.
Also, blaming them for not doing something they could do is a ridiculous argument no matter where you apply it to. Surely there are things that you could do that you're not doing.
Just because their business model does not appeal to you does not make them a villain.

If they contribute to the Kernel or something its only because they plan to take advantage of it.
That is mainly a symptom of GPL. That's a grave that many FOSS projects dug themselves and we see it happening repeatedly.
Also, first you blame Microsoft for not being more Linux/FOSS friendly or focused. Now you blame them for actually doing it. This is typical for the "oh this sucks because everybody else says it sucks"-sheep behavior.

The culturally motivated haters that just hate because others in the company are doing it will have plenty of arguments against this but may I remind you: https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/selling-security-updates-via-subscriptions.91674/
"Just switch Linux distributions" is a very long, tedious and complex task for any company doing actual serious work where lifes depend on the output.

That being said, I'm not a fan of Microsoft Windows either and I like to avoid it where reasonable. I'd just like to point out that seemingly many people are first blaming Microsoft for not doing something and then when they are doing it they blame them for doing it. The double standards that some religious FOSS people have seem insane to me.
 
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