Is there a real interest in pushing FreeBSD on the desktop space?

I want a graphical installer with cloud support and transparency support!!!!
and in the default installation of FreeBSD I want the latest kde and gnome desktop with effects!!!!!
nothing about WM..NO..I want a full..full desktop
and the default and ONLY login will be graphical..yes..NO more console..is a useless thing from the past(and ugly)
is only need for hackers movies
is more..I want the new default shell to be X11..no..wayland(X is from the past too and ugly and not cool)
so remove sh,bash and that all ugly..ugly things
 
wolffnx said:
I want a graphical installer with cloud support and transparency support!!!!
and in the default installation of FreeBSD I want the latest kde and gnome desktop with effects!!!!!
nothing about WM..NO..I want a full..full desktop
and the default and ONLY login will be graphical..yes..NO more console..is a useless thing from the past(and ugly)
is only need for hackers movies
is more..I want the new default shell to be X11..no..wayland(X is from the past too and ugly and not cool)
so remove sh,bash and that all ugly..ugly things
Click to expand...
Installer with compiz, with the buttons exploding every time I click next. ?
 
I'd say IFF we get a graphical installer, it shall have some kind of attitude test. I don't mind graphical installers, I don't mind stupid people (we all started stupid) - not even stupid people using graphical installers. What I mind is arrogant people who screw up and yell for the manager.
 
Crivens said:
I'd say IFF we get a graphical installer, it shall have some kind of attitude test. I don't mind graphical installers, I don't mind stupid people (we all started stupid) - not even stupid people using graphical installers. What I mind is arrogant people who screw up and yell for the manager.
Click to expand...

idem..I have my personal opinion,I respect every OS ,setups and people tastes..but when they want reinvent the wheel in someting that works fine and dont need that changes..it bothers me
 
It would seem to me that there are two reasons to make a graphical installer:
1) To attract users with fewer FreeBSD skills, like Windows refugee.
2) Because people who install FreeBSD regularly find the existing installer inconvenient and get tired of dealing with it.

I don’t think 1) should be an issue, because I don’t think FreeBSD will ever be a good starting point for Windows refugees. (This is not a bad thing, BTW. For example, I spent 45 years working with IBM mainframes, and I really appreciate all the messages that are displayed while booting. The IBM mainframe does the same thing, and it makes it a lot easier to see when there is a problem or potential problem. Most Linux distros hide these messages in the name of user friendlines.)

Regarding 2), most tools are made because someone got tired of doing things the hard way and wrote a tool to make things easier. The graphical Linux installers are prettier, but the FreeBSD installer does the job, and the fact that it has worked the way it works for a long time gives a familiarity which is convenient.

So unless the people who are regular FreeBSD users have a problem with the current installer, there is probably no need to change it. (Also, I would imagine that a graphical installer would have more device dependent stuff to worry about, though I could be wrong, since IANAFD [I am not a FreeBSD developer].)

The only problems I have had with the current installer were when installing with a serial console, and I suspect they were either BIOS weirdnesses or user error. (I may have told it that the console was a VT100.)

So if anyone was asking for my vote, I would say that a graphical installer is a low priority, and maybe something that shouldn‘t even be considered.
 
An installer is also a configuration UI. Even now the FreeBSD installer messes with /etc quite a bit.

So a new installer would also provide prettier configuration.
 
The only problem I faced with the current installer is that kernel error/warning messages get continuosly printed and thus disrupt the interface to the point that if a person is not skilled enough it makes it impossible to proceed. It really was driving me nuts and I was forced more than once to type blindly.
 
fmc000 said:
The only problem I faced with the current installer is that kernel error/warning messages get continuosly printed and thus disrupt the interface to the point that if a person is not skilled enough it makes it impossible to proceed. It really was driving me nuts and I was forced more than once to type blindly.
Click to expand...

You're right, it should suggest (or force?) logging in on another tty to run, and leave ttyv0 alone - but referenced - for such console messages.
 
fmc000 said:
The only problem I faced with the current installer is that kernel error/warning messages get continuosly printed and thus disrupt the interface to the point that if a person is not skilled enough it makes it impossible to proceed. It really was driving me nuts and I was forced more than once to type blindly.
Click to expand...
You have a bad hardware issue I guess?

smithi said:
You're right, it should suggest (or force?) logging in on another tty to run, and leave ttyv0 alone - but referenced - for such console messages.
Click to expand...
It does. Unless you have something really bad happening.
 
fmc000 said:
The only problem I faced with the current installer is that kernel error/warning messages get continuosly printed and thus disrupt the interface to the point that if a person is not skilled enough it makes it impossible to proceed. It really was driving me nuts and I was forced more than once to type blindly.
Click to expand...
I go to the shell. And type some commands. Create a zpool etc... It's a learning curve.
 
blackhole said:
making things as easy as possible for users who are unwilling or unable to learn even the basics - but to what end?
Click to expand...
Someone installed a neighbour Linux Mint. When upgrading was really a necessity, this someone was not anymore there,
I offered my help. And I regret it! I continuously think about how to diplomatically escape from this "duty".

I made the back up, and since the version was so old, I thought it better to install debian with mate desktop
environement, the one of linux mint. I installed debian many times and can deal better with it. For people like
him, the Operating System is the Desktop environement, it does not matter if it is debian, mint or ubuntu.

When installing, as always, the installer hangs, is slow, demand to much resources, and when the installer
stood and asked something, the neighbour pressed enter before I saw anything: he is like an ape in
front of a keyboard.

Well, in spite of all, I managed to make the install, but since the new mate looked different than the old mate
that was installed in his old linux mint, he complained continuously because I installed debian, until he got used to
the new version of mate. It was impossible to explain him that a new version of mint would look like the same.
He projects his discontent with the computer on me.

Now I had to upgrade debian, but he does not let me do the task until the end. He has absolutely no I idea,
but thinks he knows better than me what is necessary. And if something goes wrong, of course it is my guilt.

It is impossible to expect from such a person to learn some basics of computers, the computer is for him
the desktop environment, commands are to rational, word oriented, he needs to do everything tactile,
with the mouse, like an ape.

To what end are developed these environments? Windows and Apple to make money from people like him.
But what about different priorities on different operating systems? FreeBSD must remain FreeBSD, and there
are enough projects pushing FreeBSD on the desktop space for idiots: GhostBSD and Co. If someone is not
happy with FreeBSD as Desktop, he must go to GhostBSD to complain, not here.
 
menelkir said:
You have a bad hardware issue I guess?
Click to expand...
Not really, they are just some very common BIOS-related issues that are completely harmless and also present in Linux. The real difference is that when you install Arch you don't get them printed in the console.
 
Alain De Vos said:
I go to the shell. And type some commands. Create a zpool etc... It's a learning curve.
Click to expand...
In my case this is not a real problem as I have a few decades of experience with unix and I'm very familiar with zfs as I worked as a Solaris admin for many many years, so I managed to install FreeBSD quite easily.
hruodr said:
I quote out of context:

Desktop Environments Users dont want to learn, for them the computer is like the TV: turn on and use.
Click to expand...
Yor're so wrong...
 
fmc000 said:
Not really, they are just some very common BIOS-related issues that are completely harmless and also present in Linux. The real difference is that when you install Arch you don't get them printed in the console.
Click to expand...

You can set the appropriate sysctl in the bootloader before the installer boots. Not exactly a beginner's task, in fact I don't remember the name of the sysctl right now.
 
fmc000 said:
The only problem I faced with the current installer is that kernel error/warning messages get continuosly printed and thus disrupt the interface to the point that if a person is not skilled enough it makes it impossible to proceed. It really was driving me nuts and I was forced more than once to type blindly.
Click to expand...
Next time when messages are spamming the system console (tty0), where the installer is started automatically on boot, drop to "Live System", change into a virtual console, tty4 for example (Alt + F5), log in as user "root", execute bsdinstall to resume menu guided installation.
 
T-Daemon said:
Next time when messages are spamming the system console (tty0), where the installer is started automatically on boot, drop to "Live System", change into a virtual console, tty4 for example (Alt + F5), log in as user "root", execute bsdinstall to resume menu guided installation.
Click to expand...
Well, my system works now perfectly fine so I hope there won't be a "next time" ;)
 
Everyone, next time: keep on subject or start a new thread. Don't pollute this one any more than it already is. Please.
 
hruodr said:
Desktop Environments Users dont want to learn, …
Click to expand...

That's a huge overgeneralisation.

menelkir said:
… a bad hardware issue I guess? …
Click to expand...

Not necessarily.

I haven't encountered the symptoms recently, but they can occur quite easily.

wolffnx said:
I want a graphical installer with cloud support and …
Click to expand...

Graphics aside: expect a future bsdinstall to use packages – .pkg files – instead of .tgz distribution sets.

We have packages of the OS.

A smart bsdinstall should also offer port packages (to be installed sequentially, not concurrent with OS packages).

wolffnx said:
… remove … ugly..ugly things
Click to expand...

Retracted​

An example of deleting a package. Some people either can't understand, or can't tolerate, such things.
 
Last edited:
And speaking about desktop, what I miss, are lightweight desktop applications in the spirit of Unix and X11.

Self the search for a command line mail client for reading remote email is difficult, the best is alpine, mutt has
bad imap support.

There is also no light weight graphical file manager. Only bloat in the style of desktop environments.

There can be done a lot of good things, there is a lot to do, but that is application development, not a
issue for the operating system.
 
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