Is there a real interest in pushing FreeBSD on the desktop space?

I don't think FreeBSD is a good solution for a personal desktop/laptop operating system.

I'm not a Mac user, I was never satisfied with it's limitations. Everyone may have their opinions on Windows, but it's the ideal desktop OS.

This depends on what you expect from a desktop computer. A unix computer with X11 running twm is in my opinion
a very good desktop. For me are the applications the important components of a desktop, not the GUI.

That is for example why I lamented above the absence of a good OCR program. I think developers are distracted
with GUI nonsense and are neglecting the creation of important desktop software.
 
Why should I have to enter a password to install new software? update, remove, change a system file, or edit system configuration? Why do I need to worry about file ownership and permissions? I don't even want to get into the shared libraries aspect of UNIX design, both Windows and Mac don't do it to the extent that UNIX/Linux does with end user software.

It's poor user experience for a single user desktop PC or laptop. Once I've signed into my system and proved who I am, I should be able to do everything (including breaking it) without having to 'switch users'.
Did you know that entering a password to install new software is required on any OS, including Windows and MacOS?

Shared libs? Windows has DLL hell, in case you forgot.

File ownership and permissions? Windows has a much more complicated security model than UNIX. On UNIX, if you're root, you can do everything. On Windows, you have accounts like TrustedInstaller, Administrators, and the like, and none of them have complete power over the machine.

I have my frustrations with Apple that I won't get into for sake of brevity.
 
I don't think FreeBSD is a good solution for a personal desktop/laptop operating system. I am someone who uses FreeBSD on the desktop every day, for work and for personal projects. I'm not a Mac user, I was never satisfied with it's limitations. Everyone may have their opinions on Windows, but it's the ideal desktop OS.
O well. I may agree but if Gates add not been so ... sorry. It is difficult to not get angry.
 
The Desktop Environment and the GUI is important not only the applications.
If you want to connect another display you will want your Desktop working properly considering 2 or more displays.

The MacOS is in my opinion the almost perfect solution, the combination of a working almost flawless Desktop Environment with the UNIX security and Shell.
It's an Apple OS environment and that's it.
Luckily there are even more software distributed for Intel and MacOS ARM compatible but there are still many that don't care to build a version for MacOS and this is the problem.
Applications like a good Office suite and development IDE is what most people need but then there are those with very specific needs as Gaming, CAD or Multimedia/Video editing software and here M$ Windows as it all.
Yes I can also play some games in a MacOS, Linux and even FreeBSD, but not all the games I'm able to play in a Windows computer.
The same happens with device drivers, keyboards, mouse, printers, scanners, all will work in Windows.

FreeBSD is far from being the Desktop choice for most people but still some are interested on it, people like me.
 
I much prefer to call xrandr directly than the automatic attempts by other OSes.
Indeed. Same with mount.

Much of this is because so many desktop environments continue to make an absolute mess with xrandr and mount functionality.
Even RHEL8 on a newish X1 Carbon 8th gen can't get this crap right and that is the flagship enterprise OS for the Gnome environment.
 
Yeah I like knowing what programs to run and config files to edit, rather than the UI layers over it that MacOS provides.
MacOS puts all the App in a folder with a specific extension that is not interpreted as a folder.
It also does this with bundles, etc.
That's why removing an Application in MacOS is as simple as dragging the icon to Trash, deletes the "folder".
 
MacOS puts all the App in a folder with a specific extension that is not interpreted as a folder.
It also does this with bundles, etc.
That's why removing an Application in MacOS is as simple as dragging the icon to Trash, deletes the "folder".

... unless the application was forced to install something somewhere else. For example audio plugins.
 
MacOS puts all the App in a folder with a specific extension.
Thats rare these days. Most macOS programs now use installers to spam the system with various files and config changes. Also install DRM services and all that other "good stuff".

I do like the idea of self-contained programs though. For OpenBSD I developed and maintain pkg_bundle. It basically grabs a program and dependencies from packages, extracts and applies "hacks" to it to make it run from arbitrary locations. UNIX-like programs and build systems hard coding i.e /usr/local is absolutely insane in my opinion.
Looking at the constant issues that guys have with crap like VSCode. I imagine this approach could be useful for that.
 
I consider FreeBSD a much needed alternative to the almost orders of magnitude bloatier OSes, be it Windows, MacOS or Ubuntu. E.g. having just wpa_supplicant for wifi is a real bliss. Not layer on top of layer managing managed managers. And zfs out of the box, nice.

Not everything works. What works, however, usually won't stop to do so. And I love the lean pkg upgrades. It feels reliable.

I am glad I found and use it.
 
MacOS puts all the App in a folder with a specific extension that is not interpreted as a folder.
It also does this with bundles, etc.
That's why removing an Application in MacOS is as simple as dragging the icon to Trash, deletes the "folder".

I understand MacOS package folders, but that's not what I'm referring to.

To persist NIC changes FreeBSD, I edit rc.conf and apply them with service netif restart em0.

What file do I edit on MacOS to make NIC changes?

edit: I also know that there is a file somewhere on MacOS that has this information. There has to be, for Settings app to update. My point is that users don't edit those files - they use the Settings app - and that's how MacOS is intended to be used. I would rather edit the file directly.
 
I actually tend to agree. Which means the industry is in a really bad position now because Microsoft is shovelling criminal stuff into Windows and there is no good migration strategy to any other viable OS.

What people will ultimately do is try to wrangle Linux for this use-case and it will be a horrible dirty mess of freeware. Desktop computing will arguably be worse than the previous decades.

Probably inevitable at this point. But hopefully it doesn't go any further than that.

And all Microsoft et al need to do is keeping a ever so slight edge on that mess...
In those circumstances, I don't want to have any BSD advertised as Desktop OS, it will bring all the usual suspects to the table and we don't have the means to beat them back. Let them go for Linux, let Microsoft aim just a bit over the tip of the turdberg that is going to come out of that - we will then by default be above that. And then the question will be: Hide or Run?

One thing this project can do against that is to make it clear (and enforce) that its purpose is first and foremost to be a free and open source UNIX implementation for those who are actually desire/are interested in/or need a UNIX system. The tail should not be allowed to freely wag the dog either.
 
SAID HANRAHAN

"We'll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,
In accents most forlorn,
Outside the church, ere Mass began,
One frosty Sunday morn.

The congregation stood about,
Coat-collars to the ears,
And talked of stock, and crops, and drought,
As it had done for years.

"It's lookin' crook," said Daniel Croke;
"Bedad, it's cruke, me lad,
For never since the banks went broke
Has seasons been so bad."

"It's dry, all right," said young O'Neil,
With which astute remark
He squatted down upon his heel
And chewed a piece of bark.

And so around the chorus ran
"It's keepin' dry, no doubt."
"We'll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,
"Before the year is out.

"The crops are done; ye'll have your work
To save one bag of grain;
From here way out to Back-o'-Bourke
They're singin' out for rain.

"They're singin' out for rain," he said,
"And all the tanks are dry."
The congregation scratched its head,
And gazed around the sky.

"There won't be grass, in any case,
Enough to feed an ass;
There's not a blade on Casey's place
As I came down to Mass."

"If rain don't come this month," said Dan,
And cleared his throat to speak--
"We'll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,
"If rain don't come this week."

A heavy silence seemed to steal
On all at this remark;
And each man squatted on his heel,
And chewed a piece of bark.

"We want a inch of rain, we do,"
O'Neil observed at last;
But Croke "maintained" we wanted two
To put the danger past.

"If we don't get three inches, man,
Or four to break this drought,
We'll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,
"Before the year is out."

In God's good time down came the rain;
And all the afternoon
On iron roof and window-pane
It drummed a homely tune.

And through the night it pattered still,
And lightsome, gladsome elves
On dripping spout and window-sill
Kept talking to themselves.

It pelted, pelted all day long,
A-singing at its work,
Till every heart took up the song
Way out to Back-o'Bourke.

And every creek a banker ran,
And dams filled overtop;
"We'll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,
"If this rain doesn't stop."

And stop it did, in God's good time;
And spring came in to fold
A mantle o'er the hills sublime
Of green and pink and gold.

And days went by on dancing feet,
With harvest-hopes immense,
And laughing eyes beheld the wheat
Nid-nodding o'er the fence.

And, oh, the smiles on every face,
As happy lad and lass
Through grass knee-deep on Casey's place
Went riding down to Mass.

While round the church in clothes genteel
Discoursed the men of mark,
And each man squatted on his heel,
And chewed his piece of bark.

"There'll be bush-fires for sure, me man,
There will, without a doubt;
We'll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,
"Before the year is out."

John O'Brien
 
If newcomers have reasonable expectations, there'll be no need to reject people :)
It's not users, it's the well meaning consultants of the aforementioned organized cri... corporations. With helpfull suggestions, like how to decrease boot times or how to manage sound/graphics/... Those are the ones you need to beat back.
 
It's not users, it's the well meaning consultants of the aforementioned organized cri... corporations. With helpfull suggestions, like how to decrease boot times or how to manage sound/graphics/... Those are the ones you need to beat back.
FreeBSD has already decreased boot times. Unless it's about SystemD. Decreasing boot times was a topic by users before. Then, the achievement of decreased boot times was in a FreeBSD Foundation press release or in one of those release notes.
 
Everyone may have their opinions on Windows, but it's the ideal desktop OS.
Hard pass:

100% of the time a person will buy a computer just for themselves.
I've bought more than one server for my family's use. I bet lots of people on this forum also run small servers for use by others.

It's poor user experience for a single user desktop PC or laptop. Once I've signed into my system and proved who I am, I should be able to do everything (including breaking it) without having to 'switch users'.
Because UAC is so much better? I so love clicking through freakin' dialogs to install things...
 
… Decreasing boot times was a topic by users before. Then, the achievement of decreased boot times was in a FreeBSD Foundation press release or in one of those release notes.

From a status report: "… as of the end of December 2021 the FreeBSD boot time was reduced from approximately 30 seconds to approximately 10 seconds. During 2022Q1, further improvements have shaved more time off the boot process, taking it down to roughly 8 seconds …".

More recent news about boot times was probably a niche use case, not desktop.

With peripherals, docked, my notebook boot time is much longer than eight seconds. I'm not complaining, just observing.
 
I don't think FreeBSD is a good solution for a personal desktop/laptop operating system.
I disagree - yes, FreeBSD is bad if you want an off the shelf solution desktop OS. But if you are the DIY type of user, then FreeBSD can be the DIY desktop OS of your dreams!

You can do stuff with FreeBSD Windows does not offer, like tiling WMs and much much more, building the non-annoying non-distracting desktop from your dreams.
 
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