will freebsd15 have default desktop?

[menelkir]

The ecosystem, as currently described, does include the thousands of dedicated and talented developers, contributors, and end users that create FreeBSD according to an open governance model, so:

• let's acknowledge Eric as one of these dedicated and talented people.

Still not part of the ecosystem, it's a derivate.
There's debian people that works for canonical and this doesn't make ubuntu and debian the same thing.

 

[hruodr]

If I recall correctly, sysinstall, which was the former installer of bsdinstall, already had post-install configuration menu, including installing packages in the installation media.

The smaller the installer, the better. Screenshots are not welcome there.

One thing is the OpenBSD installer that runs with absolutely no problem in almost any computer,
other thing are linux installers that hang and takes hours for installing the system, if they allow it.

FreeBSD will decide in one or the other direction. The actual installer does not work without problems.
I hope, it does not get worse.

 

[Cath O'Deray]

Credit where credit's due:

• Eric Turgeon (iXsystems, founder and leader of the GhostBSD project) is a contributor to the FreeBSD ecosystem.

 

[Cath O'Deray]

… other thing are linux installers that hang and takes hours for installing the system, if they allow it. …

I haven't encountered that.

It's known that FreeBSD fails to boot on computers such as HP EliteBook 650 G10 and (probably) Framework 16. Can't get as far as the installer, without a low-level command that's associated with serial communications (not documented in the FreeBSD Handbook).

 

[rfriemer]

Can I may enter the discussion with my experience?

The best on FreeBSD is that it comes with several Desktop Environments.

Gnome, KDE/Plasma and, and, and ...

What it the Problem with that?

I use Plasma, because I like it and my machine has enough Power to run it.

Graphical Installer? Why should we force to have one?

The FreeBSD Installer makes it possible to install the base System in less than 15 Minutes. And then you can decide, how to use FreeBSD. Desktop, Server? Firewall? WiFi-Access-Point? Mobile Router? Can Linux do that? As I know the common Distributions they have one Desktop Enviroment and it is quite a long way to install another...

The graphical Installer is for who? Younger Generation which can install an OS only, when they see a Window? Do they need that? ok... When they come up to use FreeBSD, well ok then use it. ...

I will use the "old" style Installer, if I can... (because I think it is faster ...

And I think it is no good way to compare FreeBSD with Linux... FreeBSD is FreeBSD and not Linux, it is so easy.

Get it, install it and learn to love it.

Bobby

 

[Ilovehotdog]

well, i try NomadBSD, it failed during setup stage.
i try ghostbsd, it have no auto hardware detect. so, no wifi or Bluetooth default.
freebsd, yes, it is similar from freebsd5.4 to freebsd14.
so expert paradigm as before.

well, 80% people just want default function who don't care about open or close source.
15% people like self-style who like open source.
5% people love huge free with expert paradigm.
yep, i think freebsd or arch just want 15%+5% people with expert paradigm.
debian or EndeavourOS want 80%+15% people with auto default mode.


it is very different when you join in PC market.

not like server market.

 

[Starcat]

UNIXen have had a default DE for ages, there is nothing radical or mind blowing about that concept. In 2024, it's a reasonable expectation.

That being said, no amount of pontification on this forum is going to change the direction or lack thereof.

Threads like this simply degenerate into an opinion soup. The soup du jour is becoming increasingly commonplace on this forum and is quite frankly, tiresome. Meanwhile, legitimate user questions in other threads go unanswered. Go figure.

 

[astyle]

UNIXen have had a default DE for ages, there is nothing radical or mind blowing about that concept. In 2024, it's a reasonable expectation.

Are you talking TWM or CDE?

Those used to be the only game in town for a while on most UNIX flavors, true... They were pretty basic. And going by that measure, they could be considered 'default DE' that only a knowledgeable enthusiast could like. But even those two options are de-coupled from FreeBSD, as in: FreeBSD doesn't come with them (or other DEs) preinstalled. Well, 'preinstalled' seems to be getting equated with 'default'.

Threads like this simply degenerate into an opinion soup. The soup du jour is becoming increasingly commonplace on this forum and is quite frankly, tiresome. Meanwhile, legitimate user questions in other threads go unanswered. Go figure.

Well, if you take a look at the direction where Windows and MacOS are going, FreeBSD is becoming an attractive alternative. However, for me, at least, even Linux is making a mess of being a usable alternative to Win/Mac - yeah, software is free of charge on Linux, but components change at the drop of a hat. FreeBSD does have very similar dependency hell that Linux does, but at least things don't change at the drop of a hat or for stupid licensing reasons.

 

[Starcat]

Yes, I was referring to CDE and its successor, GNOME. Whether they come pre installed or are a default is a lexical semantic that I largely ignored.

The decoupling is neither wrong or right, but I imagine it heavily impacts user adoption rates in a world that has largely forgotten about the CLI.

When comparing FreeBSD to macOS, Windows, and/or Linux, it's an awesome alternative. If it weren't for niche technical use cases, I would use FreeBSD exclusively.

Unless big blue and its minions (i.e. Red Hat, et al.) temper their influence, I believe that they will ultimately be the downfall of Linux. From my perspective, a lot of those seemingly drop of the hat decisions are motivated by profit and a desire to control the future outcome. Someday the GNU/Linux fan base will realize that things are not as free or open as they imagined. Instead, they are beholden to big tech.

 

[Cath O'Deray]

… CDE and its successor, GNOME. …

Thanks, I was not previously aware of the relationship.

… a single DE (Thread 83906).

Also, amongst others:

Desktops

What is the range of desktops that can be installed with FBSD. Which do you believe is currently the most popular?

forums.freebsd.org

There, I expressed a preference for KDE.

More specifically: I'd not recommend a system with GNOME as a default. I have a strong dislike for it.

 

[jb82]

no way

 

[Starcat]

Thanks, I was not previously aware of the relationship.

For the sake of clarity, I was not implying a direct relationship between CDE (proprietary origin) and GNOME (FOSS), simply a path of succession. Each was anointed by the leading UNIX vendors. First CDE by HP, IBM, SunSoft, and USL. GNOME later became the hier apparent when it was endorsed by Sun, HP, Red Hat, and IBM.

 

[T-Aoki]

We shouldn't forget that, on early CDE era, EWSs/GWSs are sold/licensed as a whole, including hardwares, OS'es, (C)DEs and additional stock apps, and end user support was usually incorporated in maintainance contracts (as far as I know in Japan).
Limiting DE with only one would minimize the cost for support and maximize profits. And making the DE common to (hopefully) all possible WS vendors would significantly help SIers that sells WS'es from multiple vendors.
Yes, this is just an old history.

 

[Rock]

People that want a default GUI must use a OS with default GUI, perhaps Ubuntu, Linux Mint, MacOS, Windows.

Apple and Microsoft are not free. I will buy a comercial OS when it is free. The CL is great. I like it cause is the original way to interact with a computer.

 

[LibreQuest]

Having the option to install a desktop during the installation process would be interesting. Not having the option to not install a desktop would be disappointing.

 

[astyle]

Having the option to install a desktop during the installation process would be interesting. Not having the option to not install a desktop would be disappointing.

Well, you can use the bootonly ISO, and then use bsdconfig packages, that would give you the option to install any desktop you want.

 

[ralphbsz]

Someday the GNU/Linux fan base will realize that things are not as free or open as they imagined. Instead, they are beholden to big tech.

About 99% or 99.9% of all Linux machines are headless servers. The vast majority of those are used and installed by very large commercial companies (the FAANG among them), which are not exactly "fan base", but make very rational and data-driven decisions.

 

[Cath O'Deray]

Apple … not free. I will buy a comercial OS when it is free. …

Prior to Mavericks, most upgrades to Mac OS X were not free. 10.1 was exceptional.

The 2013 upgrade to Mavericks was free of charge … and so on.

You can think of Apple profiting from the cost of hardware, not from the cost of the OS.

 

[Rock]

You can think of Apple profiting from the cost of hardware, not from the cost of the OS.

Apple never gave up the hardware cloning copyright.

 

[hruodr]

Rock,​

the flag with the bird of prey in your profile is only for official use in germany, it is a misdemeanor to use it
by other people.

I once saw how the police stopped a person carrying it in a pro-palestine demonstration, he was sure
condemned to pay an amount of money. It was at a time when pro-palestine demonstrations were allowed
without problem.

 

[drhowarddrfine]

hruodr Let's not venture into the political abyss

 

[Crivens]

hruodr maybe he is here on official business. He might be from the overseas department of the spooks, as they are not allowed to spy on us from within the country. They once pulled the satellite excuse, as the wire tapping was done in space and not here. See, real bright fellows... So, do we have our own handler from the "Agentur Horch Guck & Grabsch"? (Hear look and snatch)
But after this excursion to international politics, what does all this have to do with the topic at hand?

 

[kpedersen]

The 2013 upgrade to Mavericks was free of charge … and so on.

Now with the recent addition of installation DRM, it isn't free but an unspecified time limited demo. When will Apple shut down the activation servers? Will it be today? Tomorrow or in a year? Either way, they are one day going down. Along with your trial.

 

[smithi]

Well, you can use the bootonly ISO, and then use bsdconfig packages, that would give you the option to install any desktop you want.

That would be true IFF my 3 remaining patches to bsdconfig packages given in PR 238314 were applied.

Unfortunately they were left behind when that PR was hastily marked Closed Fixed when the first patch (broken symlink) was applied.

After much work over months in 2022-3, I am no longer well enough to keep pursuing this.

It needs a bit more work to be able to choose between latest and quarterly package sets, plus some basic instructions - which I can do if somebody else works it out.

 

[Cath O'Deray]

I guess:

• developers will focus more on bsdinstall (than on bsdconfig), given the need to support pkgbase
• when bsdinstall supports packages of base, it should also support packages of ports.