Why do you use FreeBSD on desktop?

What strikings me, or surprises me is that many "ports/packages" compile just fine on freebsd where they don't on gentoo-linux, which you would expect.
 
taiwan740 ,
In SuSE you can choose the wicked network manager and leave NetworkManager aside. You can also handle YaST in console.
I also used Debian Xfce without any widgets, just using wpa_supplicant and /etc/network/intefaces, like on FreeBSD.

yast2_net_icard.png

(Research not necessary)
 
I do miss dtmail, an MH based email app on OSF/1 and Tru64. dxmail, which was on Solaris 9, never really cut it for me. I've searched for dtmail sources but none can be found, else I'd port it to FreeBSD.

I was on the original team that got CDE open-sourced and ported to modern systems back in ~2012. I still have anxiety attacks from the memory of its rotten build system even now. Wrangling that cruft was certainly the hardest part. My personal maintained version uses CMake (and now has almost all IPC + tooltalk removed).

I recall we had to strip some bits out that we thought we would never be able to get ported. Have you contacted Peter Howkins (flibble) or Jon Trulson (jon13) to see if they have better luck digging it out?
 
taiwan740 ,
In SuSE you can choose the wicked network manager and leave NetworkManager aside. You can also handle YaST in console.
I also used Debian Xfce without any widgets, just using wpa_supplicant and /etc/network/intefaces, like on FreeBSD.

yast2_net_icard.png

(Research not necessary)
The RPM-based distros are just soulless for me, though. I know they are going for ease-of-use and avoiding dependency-hell with their Software/App Stores using Snapd/Flatpak/containerd environments for applications, but it just seems pointless to me because that's what Windows is for.

I used to have a desktop that I built using Linux From Scratch, that was interesting for a bit, but now it all uses that meson/ninja stuff which just feels like the hipsters have moved in and tried to make what was perfectly fine before all edgy and buzzwordy because they can't go through the day without making some kind of reference to Japan.
 
The RPM-based distros are just soulless for me, though. I know they are going for ease-of-use and avoiding dependency-hell with their Software/App Stores using Snapd/Flatpak/containerd environments for applications, but it just seems pointless to me because that's what Windows is for.

I used to have a desktop that I built using Linux From Scratch, that was interesting for a bit, but now it all uses that meson/ninja stuff which just feels like the hipsters have moved in and tried to make what was perfectly fine before all edgy and buzzwordy because they can't go through the day without making some kind of reference to Japan.
I like "devuan". It even makes my Brother printer work.
 
gentoo-FreeBSD is dead. Their developers have dropped the project.
There's a pattern with those kind of projects failing due to lack of developers/interest.

Debian tried it several years ago and was also long abandoned and then officially ended this year.

I find that you tend to read the rationale for these projects and it's never very compelling. Users of FreeBSD will use FreeBSD, users of Linux distros, will use those. These types of projects are just very niche and there are no advantages to either camp in switching.
 
There's a pattern with those kind of projects failing due to lack of developers/interest.

Debian tried it several years ago and was also long abandoned and then officially ended this year.

I find that you tend to read the rationale for these projects and it's never very compelling. Users of FreeBSD will use FreeBSD, users of Linux distros, will use those. These types of projects are just very niche and there are no advantages to either camp in switching.
Yeah, it is a bit reinventing the wheel, but I did like trying out these kinds of projects in 2000-2010. In fact, earlier this year I tried to get a laptop working with Debian kFreeBSD but it's just fell into dependency hell, something to do with libffm if I recall correctly, and also something to do with the FreeBSD kernel determining the architecture as "amd64" but the GNU userland reporting it as "x86_64" so build tools (I think this was meson...) couldn't determine the config.

Open/PureDarwin interested me too, but I believe Apple made a change to XNU which meant it no longer could bind to the PureDarwin userland or something. I do love a good kernel...

Hurd is microservices, though. I don't think that design pattern really works in any system, but I think it could be quite cool someday when it has a decent wealth of hardware support behind it.
 
I was on the original team that got CDE open-sourced and ported to modern systems back in ~2012. I still have anxiety attacks from the memory of its rotten build system even now. Wrangling that cruft was certainly the hardest part. My personal maintained version uses CMake (and now has almost all IPC + tooltalk removed).

I recall we had to strip some bits out that we thought we would never be able to get ported. Have you contacted Peter Howkins (flibble) or Jon Trulson (jon13) to see if they have better luck digging it out?
Thank you for open sourcing CDE.

I'll send Jon an email. He and I have exchanged emails before.

I'd be interested in hearing more about your personal version. Is it a set of patches that are applied to the current version of CDE? Do you update your patches when new versions are released?
 
I'd be interested in hearing more about your personal version. Is it a set of patches that are applied to the current version of CDE? Do you update your patches when new versions are released?
It really stems from my original OpenCDE project here (screenshots).

I decommissioned OpenCDE Once CDE was GPL'ed. However I realized that the actual CDE was not as fun to work on because it was pretty messy. I also was concerned at the time that people were looking at putting in different ("modern") font rendering, pulling in dbus, fragmenting it and generally breaking the thing more. So I kind of went my own way completely. The only way that one guy can maintain a fork of such a large project is to greatly simplify it; and so I did.

It is a hard fork (not a patch kit in this case) and I don't really keep patches in sync; the projects have diverged considerably.
 
That was a "Frankenstein O.S"
I messed with it some. Even got a mixed Openbsd / Gentoo-freebsd IPSec VPN working. I gave up on it at the end because it was essentially a new platform. It wasn't Linux or Freebsd, but rather its own thing.

Kinda like how MinGW is neither Unix nor Windows.
 
It really stems from my original OpenCDE project here (screenshots).

I decommissioned OpenCDE Once CDE was GPL'ed. However I realized that the actual CDE was not as fun to work on because it was pretty messy. I also was concerned at the time that people were looking at putting in different ("modern") font rendering, pulling in dbus, fragmenting it and generally breaking the thing more. So I kind of went my own way completely. The only way that one guy can maintain a fork of such a large project is to greatly simplify it; and so I did.

It is a hard fork (not a patch kit in this case) and I don't really keep patches in sync; the projects have diverged considerably.
A lot of X software was messy at the time. Large projects also tended to become a mess as kludges evolved to work around dillemmas. In other words not really solutions.
 
Outside of my day job, I usually use a FreeBSD desktop. I use Windows and MacOS at work, but I prefer FreeBSD in my life. it doesn't have as many third-party programs as Linux, and it's a complete and stable operating system, which I like too much.
 
I have been using FreeBSD for a week now (well, using and using, mainly testing and setting up, but it is definitely a keeper :)). I have some prior experience with simple Linux distro (Ubuntu & Xubuntu), and FreeBSD revealed itself to me as a perfect answer to the question: "Which distro should I move to to advance my Linux knowledgde?". Irony intended. :)
 
I have been using FreeBSD for a week now (well, using and using, mainly testing and setting up, but it is definitely a keeper :)). I have some prior experience with simple Linux distro (Ubuntu & Xubuntu), and FreeBSD revealed itself to me as a perfect answer to the question: "Which distro should I move to to advance my Linux knowledgde?". Irony intended. :)
Getting a dual-boot FreeBSD and Gentoo system working is a fun challenge if you want to scrape a little deeper than the 'buntu's
 
Windows is out of my dictionary for long time now, MacOS comes with a Mac which is expensive and so Linux is my first option because I always have old laptops.
Started with Fedora Core (now Fedora only) and then got tired of that Gnome huge buttons and controls designed for touchscreens or whatever they want that for and also the upgrades.
Yes I know I could just switch to XFCE or something else and keep using Fedora, but it wasn't really my mood then.
I did try Ubuntu and did not last 2 days, too commercial.
Then I switched to Manjaro, a rolling release distro, perfect, install once use forever and loved that 15 seconds boot sequence, but the latest updates with new kernel made some stuff break, that nice boot logo no longer works, some tools lost theme context, etc, so I got that feeling of "they're losing it".
So I decided to look for something else and I decided to give FreeBSD a try, something more like the feeling of a new challenge.
As a desktop there's still much to do, this includes gaming keyboards that I like to use for programming, what can I say? I love these cherry red switches touch and bluetooth management is so bad but still I keep using this system.
Why? I don't know.
Ugly and slow boot for a desktop system but then it feels stable and secure.
Just forget the boot, the bluetooth, keyboard drivers and those copyright protocols used on Spotify, Netflix, etc, and it's alright.
 
Opening post:

… why you've picked FreeBSD instead of Linux, Mac…? IMHO, it would be great to have this kind of information up to date in 2023.

Not 2023 (sorry), but this is from my profile here:

❝… Crushingly dull obligatory tech history follows. Former Mac user (1992–2014; AppleSeed programme member 2009–2014). The GUI of OS X 10.10 Yosemite drove me away from Apple. I gradually switched from OS X 10.9.5 Mavericks to PC-BSD. Then TrueOS, then FreeBSD-CURRENT with KDE Plasma. …❞

This might be closest to my 2023 answer:

… I guess force of habit. Change is hard. …

That's me, in some ways.

geli(8) for encryption, zfs(8) with RootOnZFS, and generally the entire geom(8) framework …

If you want adduser(8) support for home directories with native OpenZFS encryption, there's work in progress:
  1. <https://www.reddit.com/r/freebsd/comments/17hda1v/-/> (2023-10-27)
  2. <https://www.reddit.com/r/freebsd/comments/17k32cm/-/> (2023-10-30) …

… resulting bit of knowledge is what makes this forum so much better than, say, Reddit.

Above: the developer, who does have an active account with The FreeBSD Forums, chose the FreeBSD subreddit to share his knowledge.

… Disadvantages I can cope with:
  • Suspend/Hibernation, …

Sleep and wake (suspend and resume) should be good for the vast majority of users of kernel modesetting drivers.

… also considering OpenBSD as some say that it works good on laptops (suspend/resume for example) …

For FreeBSD, please see above; KMS.

It doesn't have to be "instead of". It can be "as well as". At work I have a Windows laptop …

I have Windows 10 in VirtualBox. Also (much more often) Windows 10 via RDP, on a nearby shelved HP all-in-one with a slightly damaged display.

… Apple … perfectly good hardware is "no longer supported" …


Not a panacea, but surprisingly good on the two old Macs where I chose to use it.

Are you actually using plasma-wayland ? How are you achieving this?

There's work in progress towards broader usability. I don't have notes handy, when I find them I'll post elsewhere and ping you.

… I do agree with the idea of an option: It should simply give this message: "Now read the f*cking Handbook, pick your DE/WM and install it. Good luck!".

RTFM attitudes are troublesome.

… Documentation (the Handbook) needs to be upgraded, …

True.

… big, bloated, fat and ugly …

I should not call the FreeBSD-provided images bloated, fat or ugly.

What desktop environment that should be? Who gets to decide? …


… the base graphical installer for FreeBSD should have two options, one for the base system installation, and the other by continuation of the desktop environment by default. But no....

The FreeBSD Project does provide images, for installation of FreeBSD, that include KDE Plasma (desktop and applications), and GNOME.

Technical:


… End users have their own tastes when it comes to using the systems, and therefore, not be told to look for other systems, …

+1

… forget … the bluetooth, …

The lack of a good GUI does trouble me. I want to use Bluetooth, but don't.

FreeBSD also never bugs out nor do I have to worry about software availability.

Packages come and go, and return, but I'm not complaining.

Citrix Workspace is not available. The (very outdated) net/citrix_ica experience is atrocious, but again, I'm not complaining.

… Firefox … 109 and later, it's got awful memory leaks that cannot be stopped …

What's the number in Bugzilla?
 
What strikings me, or surprises me is that many "ports/packages" compile just fine on freebsd where they don't on gentoo-linux, which you would expect.
That was my experience when I used gentoo many years ago. There were all kinds of issues with "masking" and "emerge" would fail all the time for various types of reasons. At least when something fails on FreeBSD it is not too hard to figure out what the problem is and the fix is relatively straight-forward. You don't need to go down the "rabbit hole", so to speak, and spend countless hours screwing around with the configuration.
 
when something fails on FreeBSD it is not too hard to figure out what the problem is

This seems to be difficult to diagnose:

 
That was my experience when I used gentoo many years ago. There were all kinds of issues with "masking" and "emerge" would fail all the time for various types of reasons. At least when something fails on FreeBSD it is not too hard to figure out what the problem is and the fix is relatively straight-forward. You don't need to go down the "rabbit hole", so to speak, and spend countless hours screwing around with the configuration.
You can still get to have this kind of fun on Freebsd if you mix packages you didn't build with ports.
 
You can still get to have this kind of fun on Freebsd if you mix packages you didn't build with ports.
Yep, especially if you do a kernel/world update like to STABLE or CURRENT, some things that are already installed with pkg, you need to reinstall with ports. At least ports does report to the package manager, which is way better than if you download a .tar.gz from the internet and compile from source.
 
Yep, especially if you do a kernel/world update like to STABLE or CURRENT, some things that are already installed with pkg, you need to reinstall with ports. At least ports does report to the package manager, which is way better than if you download a .tar.gz from the internet and compile from source.
Ports do download a tarball from Internet and compile from source, y'know... make install, make deinstall, make reinstall work with much less dependency nonsense than pkg.
 
Ports do download a tarball from Internet and compile from source, y'know... make install, make deinstall, make reinstall work with much less dependency nonsense than pkg.
Yes but I believe it's scripted so that it updates the pkg database when the port installs. So pkg "knows" you have installed xorg from ports, for example.

If you clone xorg (purely for example purposes) from github, and give it the ol" crash bang whollop of ./configure && make && make install I don't think pkg has any idea that piece of software is installed and therefore doesn't know that xorg already being there satisfies the dependency when you do pkg install xfce4 later, pkg is going to download and install the xorg package again.

Unless, and this is quite likely, I'm completely wrong and there's some clairvoyant package manager thing going on, in which case I'm talking out of my backside, but I don't think there is.
 
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