Why do you use FreeBSD on desktop?

I am Support engineer and work with customers the all day (a lot of remote sessions) I don't see anyone replacing my desktop (except ubuntu maybe) . my desktop needs to be available 100% and no exceptions. this means supporting all the 3rd apps I need to run on my desktop , security products , remote session vendors. unfortunately FreeBSD will not be able to do that (not even most Linux will) If I will be forced to use something else which I might trust to do all that is only ubuntu. FreeBSD for me is a production server and having fun for desktop's at home.
 
ramib said:
I am Support engineer and wok with customers the all day
Click to expand...
I see.

I'm not talking past.
I may sometimes write long posts, which may overstrain some people's reading capabilities,
but at least me is not talking past.
 
ramib said:
I am Support engineer and wok with customers the all day (a lot of remote sessions) I don't see anyone replacing my desktop (except ubuntu maybe) . my desktop needs to be available 100% and no exceptions. this means supporting all the 3rd apps I need to run on my desktop , security products , remote session vendors. unfortunately FreeBSD will not be able to do that (not even most Linux will) If I will be forced to use something else which I might trust to do all that is only ubuntu. FreeBSD for me is a production server and having fun for desktop's at home.
Click to expand...
I read similar entries. Having the same system at home and at work seems like a good reason. Also, many started on BSD before Linux and simply stayed.
 
kpedersen said:
It was a worry for me some years back. But most of it is FUD and an attempt of self-fulfilling prophesy (possibly as a sleazy campaign for Red Hat's Wayland to reach maximum market penetration). Make no mistake, we will all have died of old age before something appears that will replace X11 fully.

Xorg might be lacking in maintenance (to be fair, the freedesktop.org is unable to maintain any decent large project anyway). However the future will likely be Xenocara. This is still a nicely maintained pseudo fork that IMO we should already be using. Xorg splitting up into tiny fragments, only to go into maintenance was dumb.

Xorg is also not a massive project, it has been simplified over the years with KMS modesetting and moving away from the user-mode vendor drivers. It really can be maintained by a few people (and is).

Do you recall first generation X11 Window Managers? These are no longer really around. From this I can project forward and guess that the first generation Wayland compositors will also go unmaintained and die in a similar timespan. So from this I hypothesize that Xorg / Xenocara will outlive Weston, Sway, etc.
Click to expand...
I happily used FreeBSD for a while, but just want to affirm that "we should already be using" Xenocara, because it is the reason that I switched to OpenBSD which supports my Huion tablet I use for online teaching through Xenocara. If Xenocara was available on FreeBSD, I might still be using it as my "daily driver", though I can still "quadruple-boot" GhostBSD along with OpenBSD, Ubuntu and Windows! I apologize for being (more than) a bit off topic since the question is "Why do you USE FreeBSD on desktop?" and NOT "Why do you NOT USE FreeBSD on desktop?"
 
Amooti said:
"we should already be using" Xenocara, because it is the reason that I switched to OpenBSD which supports my Huion tablet
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I highly doubt that the differences between OpenBSD's Xenocara and upstream Xorg are relevant to the support of your drawing tablet. More likely, someone wrote or ported a suitable driver for OpenBSD, while nobody has done that for FreeBSD yet.

Keep in mind that Xenocara is just a modified Xorg, not an alternative display server.
xenocara.org said:
The goal of Xenocara is to provide a framework to host local modifications and to automate the build of the modular X.Org components, including 3rd party packages and some software maintained by OpenBSD developers. It is not a fork. We are tracking X.Org modifications and try to push back our changes whenever they are good for upstreams too.
Click to expand...
 
bsduck said:
Keep in mind that Xenocara is just a modified Xorg, not an alternative display server.
Click to expand...
Its actually not even very heavily modified either (which is why some Linux distros use it); most improvements are pushed upstream.

It is pretty much just the build system and recombination of modules that keeps it clean and sane in terms of maintenance. This is the important part though.
 
jb82 said:
You guys who use FreeBSD as a daily driver on desktops.
Just curious, why you've picked FreeBSD instead of Linux, Mac...? IMHO, it would be great to have this kind of information up to date in 2023
Click to expand...
The only good linux distro in my eyes is linux mint, I quit linux for the most part due to arch linux. Why will one ask, because it destroys itself almost every update, and the AUR is broken, unstable garbage. It also reeks of basement programmer syndrome, you know the kind of FOSS software that somehow is worse than windows. Linux has also in my opinion got worse, it was great in 2016. I can't no longer recommend it beyond linux mint. The big part I hated the most is the Flat Pak plague that seems to replace the traditional package managers.

Why do I hate Windows, lets see... It's bloated commercial software for normies. Designed for nothing more than to consume products. Don't even get me started with it's kernel, it has every bloody driver and every configuration possible so that normies don't have to think. The consequences are that it introduces bugs, vulnerabilities, and damn near impossible to maintain. The worst part is that normies shove this bullshit in my face like it's GOAT. I do find it humorous when they tell me that past versions are somehow better. Because as far as I know they are all based on windows XP, just with more spyware and bloatware. Windows 11 I believe can't run CPUs any older than 7th gen intel or 2nd gen ryzen. The way I see it, the only purpose for them to do this is because of the lga 2011 and other cheap platforms that people can buy would hurt the sales of new hardware. It seams that intel, AMD, and Microsoft devised this plan to artificially promote computer sales.

citations for windows 11 system requirements https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/w...pported/windows-11-supported-intel-processors

For AMD https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/w...supported/windows-11-supported-amd-processors

Free BSD also never bugs out nor do I have to worry about software availability. I also don't have to worry about what package manager I'm using. FreeBSD does not chase fads or trends. I can build my system to my exact specifications. I ran one Free BSD os for almost 4 months until I lost it from being dumb, I did not back it up before changing rc.conf. In those four months it was clear Free BSD is superior. Since BSD is similar to linux it was quick to get used to. I fell in love with it because of stable it was. And unlike windows 11, I can use whatever platform I wish.
 
alexseitsinger said:
My Mom made me learn FreeBSD the day I turned like 13 and she still makes me drive her daily.

In all seriousness, I don't even know what this website is for, I just jointed the forum because I prefer them over evil social media*.

In most seriousness, I learned about FreeBSD a few decades ago, but only dipped my toes in about 11 years ago.
Click to expand...
That's a awesome mother you have there. I did not know nothing about FreeBSB until 2021, and linux in 2016. I was born in 1994 and used windows in the 2000's.
 
athan said:
I'm using FreeBSD since its very first days back on '90s and I do love it.
I'm using it on all my dedicated servers, my office and home network infrastructure, my VM development hosts and everywhere a headless or console OS is used.

Everywhere except on desktop. The reason is simple, hardware support or rather lack of it.
I got tired of searching around to find older generation computers and peripherals supported by FreeBSD.
It's unacceptable for me not to be able to use modern cpu or chipsets (eg Intel 12th/13th gen), wlan BT or lan hardware found on latest motherboards or laptops.

Latest Linux kernels support most of them but I honestly can't stand its mess so I still have to use Windows and MacOS on my desktop and laptop computers.
Click to expand...
I don't know man. it's rare for me to see a computer it can't run on.
 
jb82 said:
You guys who use FreeBSD as a daily driver on desktops.
Just curious, why you've picked FreeBSD instead of Linux, Mac...? IMHO, it would be great to have this kind of information up to date in 2023.
Click to expand...
In my work I'm an IT/Help (Hell) desk, and we work with Azure, 365 and Windows 10/11.

In my house I use sometimes Windows 10 for VERY specific reasons but my main driver was Debian, and recently also OpenSUSE Leap.

Recently tried FreeBSD and suddenly seen the words "cohesion", "coherence" and the philosophy of "just works" materialised. After trying a pure Unix system, Linux looks sometimes like a system made with "gaffer tape and pieces". Don't get me wrong, both Debian and OpenSUSE are great, but I like more the cohesion of EVERYTHING on BSD systems. Right now I use it on an old Samsung N130 Netbook with very few problems at all (just starting and it's a messy hardware). My main computer with dual boot is still useful "as is", but soon I will buy a new PC and I will have as mainly desktop FreeBSD, and in a separate SSD I will have W11 for work purposes.

Also, as we say in Spain, "en casa del herrero, cuchara de palo" (in the blacksmith house, we use wood spoon, meaning that I use other OS so much different than windows because I KNOW IT, and I like to separate my job and my leisure time :3 )
 
jb82 said:
You guys who use FreeBSD as a daily driver on desktops.
Just curious, why you've picked FreeBSD instead of Linux, Mac...? IMHO, it would be great to have this kind of information up to date in 2023.
Click to expand...
Heh, I don't only use FreeBSD for a "desktop" system, I have several "desktop" systems. I also do not have one "daily driver" I use every day ... unless one includes tablets / phone, 'cause I do use my Android based tablet and Android based phone every day. Why do I use FreeBSD as a desktop? Firstly, because I can. :p Otherwise, because it has everything I need for a desktop, including applications for browsers, e-mail, chat, IRC, et cetera. These days I watch streaming video on my tablet which is cast to a large monitor, or in my SUV while the tablet is tethered to my phone while I wait for my wife to do her shopping. I don't use a "desktop" for that.

At work I have:
  • FreeBSD based workstation on a mid-tower + two monitors in the lab that I built from a repurposed "Windows server" taken from our old NOCC.
  • MacBook Pro, provided by corporate desktop services. [My choice was a Dell with Microsoft [shudder], or an Apple MacBook Pro [less shudder]. ;) ] I end up using the MacBook Pro now more than the FreeBSD box due to mostly WFH and corporate switch to [gag] O365 a few years back. I still run an ssh tunnel through a corporate bastion gateway to VNC the desktop in the lab though.
At home I have:
  • FreeBSD based desktop on a mid-tower with 4 spinning rust drives which doubles as a home file server on the LAN.
  • Devuan Linux based "desktop" on a NUC, which I am using at the moment to write this reply. :)
Future plan is to use a Gigabyte BRIX I picked up used from a fellow to install FreeBSD + ZoneMinder to set up security cameras at the house. That will probably not have a GUI on it. I like the fact that FreeBSD does not install a GUI by default, and I have the choice to install that after the base install.
 
BobSlacker said:
And the most important part of that important part is that when Xorg finally dies, OpenBSD will already have all the setup and developers in place to really fork it.
Click to expand...
My PC:
Upgraded OpenBSD 7.2 to 7.3
The system also had the X on it.

Xenocara everything went perfectly

I'm really excited
 
MrX86 said:
My PC:
Upgraded OpenBSD 7.2 to 7.3
The system also had the X on it.

Xenocara everything went perfectly

I'm really excited
Click to expand...

Instead of Xenocara, why not focus on the wayland graphical manager? I remember I once tested OpenBSD in desktop environment in virtualbox, and I had no guest software.
 
teo said:
Instead of Xenocara, why not focus on the wayland graphical manager? I remember I once tested OpenBSD in desktop environment in virtualbox, and I had no guest software.
Click to expand...
There are Wayland-compatible Display Managers, and some of them work under FreeBSD. Last time I tried them (which was a few months ago), my experience was a hit and miss. I expect the situation has improved since, but it's still probably worthwhile to do some research, and playing with them to see what you like.
 
teo said:
Instead of Xenocara, why not focus on the wayland graphical manager? I remember I once tested OpenBSD in desktop environment in virtualbox, and I had no guest software.
Click to expand...
Host:
C:\Program Files\Oracle\VirtualBox>VBoxManage.exe setextradata OpenBSD-07-20 CustomVideoMode1 1920x1080x32




Client:



first:

ee /etc/sysctl.conf

machdep.allowaperture=2 # See xf86(4)




mkdir -p /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d




/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-virtualbox-monitor.conf

----------------------------------------------------------

Section "Device"
Identifier "VirtualBox-Card"
Driver "vesa"
VendorName "InnoTek"
BoardName "VirtualBox Graphics Adapter"
EndSection
Section "Monitor"
Identifier "VirtualBox-Monitor"
VendorName "InnoTek"
ModelName "VirtualBox Screen"
HorizSync 1.0 - 1000.0
VertRefresh 1.0 - 1000.0
EndSection
Section "Screen"
Identifier "VirtualBox-Screen"
Device "VirtualBox-Card"
Monitor "VirtualBox-Monitor"
DefaultDepth 24
SubSection "Display"
Viewport 0 0
Depth 24
#Modes "1368x768" "1360x768" "1280x800" "1024x768"
Modes "1920x1080"
EndSubSection
EndSection

----------------------------------------------------------
 
teo said:
I remember I once tested OpenBSD in desktop environment in virtualbox, and I had no guest software.
Click to expand...
Are you sure you were actually running OpenBSD? Or even an operating system.

There is more OpenBSD X11 software than there is Wayland software on the entirety of Linux: https://openports.pl/

In terms of Wayland, Hikari seems OK. Looks like a clone of CWM pretty much and for now Xwayland will keep software accessible. And because it is designed for FreeBSD, it doesn't have that messy Linux stuff such as being undecided if the future of starting it is systemd-launchd, seatd, dbus or legacy *-launch.
 
MrX86 said:
Host:
C:\Program Files\Oracle\VirtualBox>VBoxManage.exe setextradata OpenBSD-07-20 CustomVideoMode1 1920x1080x32




Client:



first:

ee /etc/sysctl.conf

machdep.allowaperture=2 # See xf86(4)




mkdir -p /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d




/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-virtualbox-monitor.conf

----------------------------------------------------------

Section "Device"
Identifier "VirtualBox-Card"
Driver "vesa"
VendorName "InnoTek"
BoardName "VirtualBox Graphics Adapter"
EndSection
Section "Monitor"
Identifier "VirtualBox-Monitor"
VendorName "InnoTek"
ModelName "VirtualBox Screen"
HorizSync 1.0 - 1000.0
VertRefresh 1.0 - 1000.0
EndSection
Section "Screen"
Identifier "VirtualBox-Screen"
Device "VirtualBox-Card"
Monitor "VirtualBox-Monitor"
DefaultDepth 24
SubSection "Display"
Viewport 0 0
Depth 24
#Modes "1368x768" "1360x768" "1280x800" "1024x768"
Modes "1920x1080"
EndSubSection
EndSection

----------------------------------------------------------
Click to expand...

MrX86 said:
Host:
C:\Program Files\Oracle\VirtualBox>VBoxManage.exe setextradata OpenBSD-07-20 CustomVideoMode1 1920x1080x32




Client:



first:

ee /etc/sysctl.conf

machdep.allowaperture=2 # See xf86(4)




mkdir -p /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d




/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-virtualbox-monitor.conf

----------------------------------------------------------

Section "Device"
Identifier "VirtualBox-Card"
Driver "vesa"
VendorName "InnoTek"
BoardName "VirtualBox Graphics Adapter"
EndSection
Section "Monitor"
Identifier "VirtualBox-Monitor"
VendorName "InnoTek"
ModelName "VirtualBox Screen"
HorizSync 1.0 - 1000.0
VertRefresh 1.0 - 1000.0
EndSection
Section "Screen"
Identifier "VirtualBox-Screen"
Device "VirtualBox-Card"
Monitor "VirtualBox-Monitor"
DefaultDepth 24
SubSection "Display"
Viewport 0 0
Depth 24
#Modes "1368x768" "1360x768" "1280x800" "1024x768"
Modes "1920x1080"
EndSubSection
EndSection

----------------------------------------------------------
Click to expand...

With those configuration, it already replaces the add-on package for the guest? That serves to automatically change the screen resolution, share libraries and external devices and folder, with the host system in virtualbox, because kvm/qemu, I do not know how to this with OpenBSD for desktop environments.

kepedersen said:
Are you sure you were actually running OpenBSD? Or even an operating system.

There is more OpenBSD X11 software than there is Wayland software on the entirety of Linux: https://openports.pl/
Click to expand...
Yes, once or twice I tested OpenBSD for desktop environment on a virtualized virtualbox machine, I remember that it was very complicated, in my opinion it lacked a lot of software in comparison to the sotware that FreeBSD had. I was disappointed because I couldn't give resolution to the screen, because OpenBSD didn't have the guest add-on packages for virtualbox.
 
teo said:
I was disappointed because I couldn't give resolution to the screen, because OpenBSD didn't have the guest add-on packages for virtualbox.
Click to expand...
The approach taken these days is to use the network aware display system.
  • For example Microsoft Hyper-V uses RDP.
  • For OpenBSD you should be using X11 forwarding (or VNC)
  • For Linux you should be using X11 forwarding (or VNC)
  • For macOS you use VNC
The reason being that this then works consistently with qemu, bhyve, vmm, hyper-v, vbox, vmware

Check out:
https://goteleport.com/blog/x11-forwarding/

Guest additions is from a time when operating systems (Win9x, WinXP Home, etc) didn't really have enterprise display systems.
 

ACCESS CONTROL​

Access to the /dev/xf86 device is allowed when the sysctl(8) variable machdep.allowaperture is greater than or equal to 1. This variable (which has a default value of 0) can only be raised when the security level is less than or equal to 0, so it should be set in /etc/sysctl.conf. The possible values for machdep.allowaperture are:

0the aperture driver is disabled. Opening it returns EPERM.1the aperture driver allows access to standard VGA framebuffer and BIOS. Access to pci(4) configuration registers is also allowed.2in addition to allowing access to pci(4) configuration registers, the aperture driver allows access to the whole first megabyte of physical memory, permitting use of the int10 emulation in X.Org 6.8 and later. Note that this can cause some security problems, since the process that has access to the aperture driver can also access part of the kernel memory. This mode is not supported on alpha or sparc64.3the aperture driver allows multiple processes to concurrently access pci(4) configuration registers and the whole first megabyte of physical memory.
 
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