Solved What is Pkgbase?

Could someone explain what is pkgbase, which problem it is going to solve, and (roughly) what will be its capabilities?

I have read this page but unfortunately it is more like an implementation tracker than a wiki explaining the role of pkgbase. I feel like if you do not already know what pkgbase is, it is difficult to make sense of this page to gain an understanding.
 
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It will also be useful for embedded Arm installs. Right now freebsd-update does not work on Arm but theoretically you could update base on an Arm install with pkgbase.
Maybe not with an official repository but you could make your own Arm repository with Poudriere generating an updated base package.

In the end it is good because it took a close examination of what was actually in base. All these small programs are now individual packages, so you could also slim down FreeBSD with this method. For example groff is in base but not widely used. You could build base without it easily compared to making individual WITHOUT_GROFF statements in your build makefile.
In short this will make it easier to customize a FreeBSD build.
 
Sorry for the bump, but it seems it'll come with 15.0 by the default. Pkgbase seems like a horrible idea.

What's the actual problem with freebsd-update? It's quite straightforward, simple and clear in every aspect.
 
Sorry for the bump, but it seems it'll come with 15.0 by the default. Pkgbase seems like a horrible idea.

What's the actual problem with freebsd-update? It's quite straightforward, simple and clear in every aspect.
Too many places to mess up - and end up with an unusable system. By now, these Forums are full of people complaining about errors from freebsd-update... 😩 I think that packaging base into
pkg(8)-friendly format is a nice idea, because it eliminates a lot of pitfalls...

It would be nice if people read the Handbook before messing with freebsd-update, but that's unfortunately not the reality we live in... And this is coming from someone who had success with
freebsd-update(8)... just because I bothered to read the Handbook.
...
 
… It would be nice if people read the Handbook before messing with freebsd-update, …

The FreeBSD Handbook is seriously lacking:
An external article that's promoted on the front page of The FreeBSD Project:
  • contradicts the installation information that is releng-approved
  • contradicts the corresponding information that's not yet in the Handbook
  • can lead to failed upgrades.
What's the actual problem with freebsd-update?

In Colin Percival's words:

Drop freebsd-update PRs which were assigned to me. I'm not working on this code any more.

Two of the comments were on 12th March 2019, I assume that all twenty-four were around the same time.

More broadly, <https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/buglist.cgi?bug_status=Open&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=New&bug_status=In+Progress&field0-0-0=product&field0-0-1=component&field0-0-2=alias&field0-0-3=short_desc&field0-0-4=status_whiteboard&list_id=668099&order=assigned_to,changeddate+DESC&query_format=advanced&type0-0-0=substring&type0-0-1=substring&type0-0-2=substring&type0-0-3=substring&type0-0-4=substring&value0-0-0=freebsd-update&value0-0-1=freebsd-update&value0-0-2=freebsd-update&value0-0-3=freebsd-update&value0-0-4=freebsd-update>:
  • seventy-nine reports
  • none is in progress
  • only three are assigned to a person (260399, 264142, 273950 (and realistically, I do not foresee progress on 260399)).
Plus issues that are not yet reported, this for example:

 
Too many places to mess up - and end up with an unusable system. By now, these Forums are full of people complaining about errors from freebsd-update... 😩

I agree, but so that's wholly the tool's fault? Or perhaps because they do it wrong? It's no joke, a serious step. Lots of things to read and prepare..

I updated several servers (lots of different configurations) by the help of https://ozgurkazancci.com/freebsd-13-2-upgrade-to-14-0-proper-and-correct-way/ tutorial and never had a single problem, all went completely smooth. And of course, I mostly focus on FreeBSD Handbook, as well.

freebsd-update is a very practical and easy tool, I really hope it will not get removed when 15 comes in.
 
Pkgbase seems like a horrible idea.
Why exactly do you think so?

What's the actual problem with freebsd-update? It's quite straightforward, simple and clear in every aspect.
It's not just about freebsd-update, but in general, to leave out any optional base component, you're currently forced to build yourself. Furthermore, unifying infrastructure by eliminating different solutions for the same concept (base.txz and freebsd-update vs pkg for binary software distribution) is always a good idea.

Apart from these larger overarching benefits, there are probably lots of smaller issues instantly solved, e.g. currently there's an issue every now and then adding some "correct" vuxml entry for base vulnerabilities, which normally boils down to having just 2 types of version information for base: userland and kernel. With versioned individual packages -> solved.

Edit: Allow me a general remark. IMHO, one thing to strongly dislike about the Linux-surrounding ecosystem and communities is the widespread tendency there to quickly jump onto "shiny" new ideas, breaking and replacing whatever was there previously without ever spending a single deeper thought... but then, I sometimes see the exact opposite (and IMHO just as annoying) tendency in BSD communities: hating any change just for the sake to dislike change. The pkgbase idea has been around for years, implementation was moving slowly, lots of thought and deep discussions went into it. It won't land as the default in 15 if there's any reason left for (sensible) doubts.
 

Despite the URL and title — FreeBSD 13.2 upgrade to 14.0 – properly detailed and (hopefully) correct way – Özgür Konstantin Kazanççı | Blog — it's not entirely proper and correct.

Coincidentally, earlier this morning:


… Consequences may include upgrade failures, with <https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=273950> no possibility of rollback. …
 
it's not entirely proper and correct.
Well, as I said, I had no trouble updating several production servers with such steps. Could you please tell which step or steps are actually incorrect?

Your mentioned link is for 14.0-BETA2 it seems?

And the issue is valid only in rollback cases? Well, as a FreeBSD dev states there in the bug page, it has always been a case.. I always keep my backups intact and take snapshots, so that I will not need a rollback.

Thank you.
 
I agree, but so that's wholly the tool's fault? Or perhaps because they do it wrong? It's no joke, a serious step. Lots of things to read and prepare..

I updated several servers (lots of different configurations) by the help of https://ozgurkazancci.com/freebsd-13-2-upgrade-to-14-0-proper-and-correct-way/ tutorial and never had a single problem, all went completely smooth.

freebsd-update is a very practical and easy tool, I really hope it will not get removed when 15 comes in.
Yeah, it's not the tool's fault that so many people mess up because they don't bother to study the manual. But we can't make 'em read the manual... Best a dev can do is address common pitfalls, and let users live with the consequences. 😩

Just because I can use freebsd-update easily doesn't mean that the next user has a decent handle on how to use it, or why following the steps in correct sequence is even important. It takes a bit of a conversation to estimate how much importance is getting placed on that piece of info by the other party.
 
1- No backup.
2- No snapshot.
3- Never bothered to fetch the patches&update the current OS release/packages, prior to the release upgrade.
4- Never bothered to study any manual/handbook.
5- Never bothered to read the RELEASE Announcement/Change Logs.

Result: "Oh my god, that bloody freebsd-update destroyed my system!"
 
The FreeBSD Handbook is seriously lacking:
An external article that's promoted on the front page of The FreeBSD Project:
  • contradicts the installation information that is releng-approved
  • contradicts the corresponding information that's not yet in the Handbook
  • can lead to failed upgrades.




More broadly, <https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/buglist.cgi?bug_status=Open&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=New&bug_status=In+Progress&field0-0-0=product&field0-0-1=component&field0-0-2=alias&field0-0-3=short_desc&field0-0-4=status_whiteboard&list_id=668099&order=assigned_to,changeddate+DESC&query_format=advanced&type0-0-0=substring&type0-0-1=substring&type0-0-2=substring&type0-0-3=substring&type0-0-4=substring&value0-0-0=freebsd-update&value0-0-1=freebsd-update&value0-0-2=freebsd-update&value0-0-3=freebsd-update&value0-0-4=freebsd-update>:
  • seventy-nine reports
  • none is in progress
  • only three are assigned to a person (260399, 264142, 273950 (and realistically, I do not foresee progress on 260399)).
Plus issues that are not yet reported, this for example:

Data is always lacking. And it's in some sense normal. If in one year it stabilizes it's OK for me.
So a handbook in PDF form once a year ?
 
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