Using FreeBSD as Desktop OS

I did fall in Love with KDE5 (Plasma) however, it proved to be massively complex and kind of like driving a Ferrari: it is super cool but at some point it is going to break and it's going to be expensive....
My first BSD install back in the day was DesktopBSD and it was using KDE3. I actually loved KDE. I like it configurability. It is probably the most configurable of the Opensource Desktops. I moved over to MacOS because I had just gotten a secondhand iMac and I was a fan of Mac OS X. I still like MacOS. I guess that is partially why I'm finding "the switch" difficult.
 
I used to dislike KDE because it was so much like Windows so I used Gnome, then they ruined Gnome with version 3 so I used Xfce4 and Mate` when I used a DE, Fluxbox when using a WM. At the end of my Linux "career" I switched to KDE5 and realized how configurable and really awesome it was. Odd thing is on FreeBSD, I prefer minimalism. No clue why, just do. We users are funny creatures ;)

OSX isn't bad at all and you are right: everything just works with zero effort. This is great for some folks and not so much for others. I don't want to things to break, but I don't mind taking the time to make the configurations myself. I learn that way and it works for me.
 
MacOS has been pretty much home for me for many years. So there will be things that I will miss about it. I guess the only way is to take the plunge and see if a properly configured KDE system will be a perfect fit. Looking at reviews like this, it shows that KDE has come a long way from the KDE4 days and has gotten far lighter. So if anyone is a novice, or needs something similar to Windows, I would choose KDE over Gnome3.
 
I'm not scared of the work, steps or time. I'm just wondering if something in the similar functionality of MacOS features is possible. To be honest, I know it is possible. GhostBSD and TrueOS is proof. However following online guides isn't always as simple many claim. Even in Linux circles, what you see online doesn't always work the way they say it will; even if you have the exact same hardware and distro version. A slight variation in the system hardware or if you neglect an important step, you will be run into issues. I've seen many guides.. even this one..
https://cooltrainer.org/a-freebsd-desktop-howto/
I'm guessing that half the steps on there aren't even important and for a novice like me, I sometimes fail to follow if everything mentioned is important or not. Installation videos don't mention much of the steps in the article makes me wonder what this person is on about. Is it because of an older version of FreeBSD or is it really required. How can I recreate something like TrueOS from scratch without using the Lumia Desktop.

Anyone who has used MacOS or even a popular Linux distro will get what I'm on about with the features. As for the iOS and desktop integration, I get that is something that I will have to figure out along the way or learn to live without.

I don't know why to make a free operating system to look like Mac or Windows. Unix is more than click and a desktop.
Use habits are different, not focus on desktop.

Mac and Windows are both ideal for looking nice, which does not mean that click and desktop is more efficient. Actually, less powerful.
 
I don't know why to make a free operating system to look like Mac or Windows. Unix is more than click and a desktop.

Because it can be done? ;) I'm not saying that it must or should be, but there is nothing against it either.

There is another, maybe more serious point to it: people.
People (who are not hackers) got accustomed to perceive a computer as something that looks like Mac or Windows. And then, if you want to be taken serious by people, you ought to behave like they expect.

Its the same as with clothing. Certainly there is more to a human than clothing, but nevertheless a lot of effort is taken about that. And once when I was working for business people, I started to wear suit&tie. I for myself don't see much point it that, but it helped a lot for being taken serious. :)

So, if other people tend to look on your desktop (or if it actually is a laptop), and if you care about what they think (or do business with them), then, well... Yes, I know that is stupid, but it's how society works.
 
MacOS has been pretty much home for me for many years. So there will be things that I will miss about it. I guess the only way is to take the plunge and see if a properly configured KDE system will be a perfect fit. Looking at reviews like this, it shows that KDE has come a long way from the KDE4 days and has gotten far lighter. So if anyone is a novice, or needs something similar to Windows, I would choose KDE over Gnome3.

Why are you giving up on Mac? Not trying to dissuade you from coming to the dark side :) but just curious. If Mac works for you, just run and learn FreeBSD in a VM, that way you can learn about it without disrupting your computing tasks.
 
Why are you giving up on Mac?
Because it doesn’t look like this...
88EBE8DB-D7E6-4E69-AFC2-3666248C05B9.jpeg

Should be motive enough.. 😅

However I will say that while I have spent the good amount of 6 hours doing 3 different installs of FreeBSD, I’m beginning to think I’m the most useless user on the planet as I can’t even follow a simple set of instructions.
B10B79F2-3444-4548-AF31-12821DA86F10.jpeg

I’m getting this error all the time..
Secondly I’m getting this as well
CC2E497B-490E-42B0-ADEB-733B58112702.jpeg

The first time KDE kept crashing an going back to the CLI mode.. Second time it wouldn’t start up at all and just showed a blank screen.
Couldn’t even get user privileges right... even though I added the user to the group “wheel”, I wasn’t able to “Sudo”..
Now I’m stuck writing this on my iPhone while I’m attempting 4th installation. Hope this doesn’t ruin my SSD.
 
Oha.
There is one essential advice, and it has nothing to do with the technology, it has to do with thinking and disciplne: start with the lowest fault.

The system -any such system- is very complex. So, only checking if the end-product works or does not work, does not give much information, because the end-product (in this case, the KDE) depends on myriads of sub-systems, and the problem may be anywhere, and may be serious or not.

Most people follow some tutorial, build the thing up unto the end-product, check if that works as expected, and if not, they try a new and different approach.
This is wrong.
Instead, we should be watchful all the time, read the messages, check the logfiles, look for anything that might be an error or a warning, and verify if that might concern us or not. That way we will at least notice the lowest (i.e. first) error in the stack of subsystems, and then can tackle to fix that one.
This may not yet lead to success, but it makes certain that the subsystem stack is okay up to a higher watermark, and we can build on that in the next approach.

So, this is about isolating the errors to their specific subsystem, where they can be fixed, one at a time.

In Your case it means, first build up a proper unix installation that works on the command-line, before starting to approach the network, the graphics, etc. It is about slicing the task to smaller pieces that can be approached and properly tested individually.
Obviousely this is of no concern if things run well up to the end-product - but as soon as errors arise, we should switch our mind to the sliced approach, instead of worrying. ;)

In Your case, the lowest error is that "error 0x31" from the loader. I've never seen that, and searching the internet I find only one discussion mentioning something similar, and that one is about booting from ZFS-root (which I do not use) and having the boot-code (not) at the right place on disk.

It seems this is not harmful, as the system boots nevertheless (if I understand You right). And consequently it will certainly not be harmful to the desktop installation, and could be ignored for now.
But if I would really want to get rid of it, I would consider that after multiple installs (onto the same disk), there might be remaining artifacts from the former installations. And so, without knowing anything more, I might decide to clean my disk (a clean workplace is always a good thing) by writing zero-bytes onto it, and then go for a new approach.
Now I’m stuck writing this on my iPhone

*laugh* not so bad. Once, when my ISP had rebuilt the infrastructure, I was stuck with hopping on my bicycle, ride down to the village, where a branch bank has a free wlan active at nighttime, and there search for possible solutions.
 
However I will say that while I have spent the good amount of 6 hours doing 3 different installs of FreeBSD, I’m beginning to think I’m the most useless user on the planet as I can’t even follow a simple set of instructions.

The first time KDE kept crashing an going back to the CLI mode.. Second time it wouldn’t start up at all and just showed a blank screen.
Couldn’t even get user privileges right... even though I added the user to the group “wheel”, I wasn’t able to “Sudo”..
Now I’m stuck writing this on my iPhone while I’m attempting 4th installation. Hope this doesn’t ruin my SSD.

One thing you may not be aware of with FreeBSD is that the OS is completely separated from the end user software, to include the display manager and desktop environment. It is not like Linux which shoves all the software together and installs everything under the sink in one fell swoop.
I would strongly suggest you get answers to your error messages first, before installing x11/xorg, x11/sddm or x11/kde5. One looks like a DNS resolution issue, perhaps /etc/resolv.conf, the other I have no idea.

Start slow, get the basic things working first, then progress to KDE. KDE5 is massively complex with a ton of moving parts. It has only been recently (6 months) been available on FreeBSD so there may be bugs, not sure, I don't use it.

Make sense?
 
Because it can be done? ;) I'm not saying that it must or should be, but there is nothing against it either.

There is another, maybe more serious point to it: people.
People (who are not hackers) got accustomed to perceive a computer as something that looks like Mac or Windows. And then, if you want to be taken serious by people, you ought to behave like they expect.

Its the same as with clothing. Certainly there is more to a human than clothing, but nevertheless a lot of effort is taken about that. And once when I was working for business people, I started to wear suit&tie. I for myself don't see much point it that, but it helped a lot for being taken serious. :)

So, if other people tend to look on your desktop (or if it actually is a laptop), and if you care about what they think (or do business with them), then, well... Yes, I know that is stupid, but it's how society works.

Very nice what you wrote. nice.

So, desktop or not desktop, ugly command line? Everyone has right.
 
Ok..
I’m not entirely sure what the boot up error is because even the installation USB has the issue and boots up in the same way.
No matter what setting (MBR / GPT) i choose or filesystem even, it still comes up the same way. Maybe it’s a BIOS setting that I need to look into.

As far as other errors go, I’m not entirely sure. The hostname issue was resolved by adding a number to it.
So it boots up just fine. The only thing is that no matter what instructions I follow, it never works the way it says it should. Either it breaks something that it doesn’t boot up or it keeps failing.

Either FreeBSD just runs very well on a virtual machine or I’m just really crappy at following simple instructions. Because everything step by step does not seem to be working for me.
 
There is another, maybe more serious point to it: people.
People (who are not hackers) got accustomed to perceive a computer as something that looks like Mac or Windows. And then, if you want to be taken serious by people, you ought to behave like they expect.

There goes progress... If acceptance of the status quo was the norm there would be no technological advances.

The horse will get me where I want to go, who needs a car? The propeller driven plane doesn't fall from the sky, who needs a jet?

It's when people don't act as they are expected to and think out of the box that we learn what we've got might not be all we thought it to be.
 
Ok..
So it boots up just fine.

Okay then, just move on. Things to be checked at that point:
do our disks feel well and have enough free space? (df, mount, zpool status, ...)
do we have some basic network function? Can we resolve hostnames, ping to other systems, and does our localhost correctly resolve 127.0.01?
(At a later point we may fixup the mailer, get network time, and harden the firewall.)

Then we can approach the next step, the graphics screen (aka X server).
It should be startable by running the command "X" (as user), and it should give a stable blank screen. (End it with Ctrl-Alt-BkSp).
When that works, go back to the text screen and start xterm. That should appear on the blank screen and mouse and keyboard should also work there. (Switch screens with Ctrl-Alt-Fn)
Then, you can try to get your browser onto the screen in the same way. I think at that point one could also check if the sound is working.
If any of these steps something fails, there will be error messages - on the console or in /var/log.

Then we can add a window manager and put that together so that it starts up graphical at boot.

Either FreeBSD just runs very well on a virtual machine or I’m just really crappy at following simple instructions. Because everything step by step does not seem to be working for me.

The problem with these step-by-step instructions is: they just tell you what to do, they do not give you the checkpoints and tests after each step to verify it succeeded as expected (or maybe the reader is expected to have enough experience to know these). It's like putting a car together from all the components, and then putting it on the road and driving, without undergoing component tests and inspection first. Should theoretically work, but in reality it doesnt.
 
There goes progress... If acceptance of the status quo was the norm there would be no technological advances.

The horse will get me where I want to go, who needs a car? The propeller driven plane doesn't fall from the sky, who needs a jet?

It's when people don't act as they are expected to and think out of the box that we learn what we've got might not be all we thought it to be.

The example is good.

Terminal (termcap,...): the horse
Desktop (Wayland,...GTK): the car
Shining desktop (Mac, Ubuntu,...): the aircraft (maybe)

Can you use the horse, because other people use the car?
 
Because it doesn’t look like this...
88ebe8db-d7e6-4e69-afc2-3666248c05b9-jpeg.5914

Should be motive enough

Actually, this desktop could be achieved. It could be also working with PLAN9 or even EVILWM on top of X11 (with good nvidia drivers). Actually evilwm would be best adapted because you can change easily key bindings and there is a fantastic resulting efficiency and user-desktop interaction.
Less mouse, key typing is far faster.
 
My system: Intel Core i5, 24GB Ram, 250GB Single SSD, 2GB Nvidia GTX 1050 Graphics Card, ASUS Gaming motherboard.

Okay then, just move on. Things to be checked at that point:
do our disks feel well and have enough free space? (df, mount, zpool status, ...)
do we have some basic network function? Can we resolve hostnames, ping to other systems, and does our localhost correctly resolve 127.0.01?
(At a later point we may fixup the mailer, get network time, and harden the firewall.)
As far as I know, with the exceptions of the errors upon boot, the system boots up fine and I'm able to browse the system though the CLI and I'm able to use "pkg install" so that means that it connects well to the internet just fine. I have no issues there. I would like to find out about the errors. I still think that it has got something to do with the BIOS.

Then we can approach the next step, the graphics screen (aka X server).
It should be startable by running the command "X" (as user), and it should give a stable blank screen. (End it with Ctrl-Alt-BkSp).
When that works, go back to the text screen and start xterm. That should appear on the blank screen and mouse and keyboard should also work there. (Switch screens with Ctrl-Alt-Fn)
.
I installed Xorg and I'm able to use "startx" and it starts up just fine. Have no issues there. I just need to my nvidia graphics sorted. So that it shows up on all three of my monitors.


The problem with these step-by-step instructions is: they just tell you what to do, they do not give you the checkpoints and tests after each step to verify it succeeded as expected (or maybe the reader is expected to have enough experience to know these). It's like putting a car together from all the components, and then putting it on the road and driving, without undergoing component tests and inspection first. Should theoretically work, but in reality it doesnt.
I believe I mentioned the same as well. It almost always never the works in the same way as you see in the article or in the video and you wonder, how did he/she do that? I'm having the same system or something much more capable and it does not work.
What baffles me is that on one installation, I used pkg install xorg.. and then after that "startx".. It didn't work and kept giving me errors. After which, I did a clean installation again and did the same installation command.. "startx", and it works. Same system, same USB for installation, same network connection, the same set of commands.. Everything the same and this just works? How? What was different?
 
Terminal: MAC truck cause you want to get things done and you move big rocks.
Desktop: Pickup truck can do most things you want done.
Shiny desktop: The family van. Great for soccer moms.

Sounds good, terminal is cool.
Maybe, for the desktop, it could be added: slow and heavy to move.

Maybe it is just matter of own vision about ideal, favorite, desktop/terminal/system/environment.
Btw, would it be interesting to have a post from an administrator using Microsoft Windows about it? It could be much different about terminal especially.
 
Btw, would it be interesting to have a post from an administrator using Microsoft Windows about it?

Actually my colleague (a rare breed of avid Windows fan who is also not a complete incompetent blind idiot) is very chuffed. Microsoft's long neglected child known as the "Command Prompt" application has seen a lot of love recently (presumably due to OpenSSH and WSL becoming adopted by Windows). The command prompt can now be sized arbitrarily (even fullscreen!) and has tabs!

Not quite the terminal multiplexor like tmux or GNU/screen but it means you don't need all these separate command prompt windows lying around everywhere ;)

Also, in those screenshots it looks like Tony Stark has been spending too long faffing around with his desktop environment than actually doing some work haha!
 
My system: Intel Core i5, 24GB Ram, 250GB Single SSD, 2GB Nvidia GTX 1050 Graphics Card, ASUS Gaming motherboard.

As far as I know, with the exceptions of the errors upon boot, the system boots up fine and I'm able to browse the system though the CLI and I'm able to use "pkg install" so that means that it connects well to the internet just fine.

Means, it has a living network and (usually) connects to the internet somehow.

I installed Xorg and I'm able to use "startx" and it starts up just fine. Have no issues there. I just need to my nvidia graphics sorted. So that it shows up on all three of my monitors.

Well then, You already took many of the more troublesome steps.

I believe I mentioned the same as well. It almost always never the works in the same way as you see in the article or in the video and you wonder, how did he/she do that? I'm having the same system or something much more capable and it does not work.

All of us are humans and make mistakes. The howtos may have something forgotten, or have put something into /etc/whatever long ago and it makes a difference, some defaults may change between releases, etc.

What baffles me is that on one installation, I used pkg install xorg.. and then after that "startx".. It didn't work and kept giving me errors. After which, I did a clean installation again and did the same installation command.. "startx", and it works. Same system, same USB for installation, same network connection, the same set of commands.. Everything the same and this just works? How? What was different?

Something was different, that's for certain. ;)

It's one thing to build a system that does work. It is quite a different thing to build a system in a 100% defined and repeatable way. And with network installation You can't even be 100% sure that the same things come down the network, as new patchlevels may appear anytime. Thats good for security fixes, but bad for debugging.

For single installation, the best approach probably is to read the error messages, figure out whats wrong, and try to fix it.
For compute-center installations which must be repeatable, one might want to build the ports on-site, log the exact versions (and do the builds in a virtual machine that is cleaned before).
 
For NVidia and 3 monitors, IMHO, it's much easier to install the nvidia-settings port and use its GUI interface. Again, IMHO, I'd rather spend time using things than setting it up, and trying to get that working through finding a tutorial for 3 monitors, as opposed to a laptop and external monitor, or tutorials that are outdated or just plain wrong or don't fit your situation, is MY preferred choice. But I'm old and probably don't have that much time left. :)

I think we all start with tutorials, and following them, sometimes blindly sometimes trying to figure out what's behind each step, we ask friends, we use forums and so on, but eventually, we either muddle through or use something else.
 
Actually my colleague (a rare breed of avid Windows fan who is also not a complete incompetent blind idiot) is very chuffed. Microsoft's long neglected child known as the "Command Prompt" application has seen a lot of love recently (presumably due to OpenSSH and WSL becoming adopted by Windows). The command prompt can now be sized arbitrarily (even fullscreen!) and has tabs!

Not quite the terminal multiplexor like tmux or GNU/screen but it means you don't need all these separate command prompt windows lying around everywhere ;)

Also, in those screenshots it looks like Tony Stark has been spending too long faffing around with his desktop environment than actually doing some work haha!

Regular admins of MS will be using command line in the future. Sounds good for a revive of term, termcap,... rediscovering.

post on multiple head: https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/xorg-triple-head-nvidia-twin-view.26825/

// xrandr is cool
 
85FC2546-2A21-4F5C-9D8F-5259F228750F.jpeg

Finally up and running with all the screens. Installed KDE5 and I guess the next step is the customization.
I’ll publish a post later on how I came to this point.
But only after I’ve solved that boot error message. Still no idea how to fix that. All the web searches turn up nothing.

The next priority is getting my Bastron Glass keyboard to work. Sort of hate using my brothers Razor mechanical one.

I would like to have a FreeBSD logo and a progress bar while the system is starting up other than the usual verbose mode.

(Why do the pictures show the correct way up on my phone and the wrong way up on a Desktop computer?)
 
Back
Top