A touchpad connected to the I2C bus??? What the heck is that?
it has also needless dependency to kdenlive for example. When I was trying to install amarok it pulled MySQL server too. By modularity I understand that I can remove a lot of stuff that one way or another are redundant or not necesary for environement to work. I don't have baloo or MySQL server installed on my VM host.Same issue under Linux.
It seems MySQL Server is required by baloo, a feature that I'd prefer optional.
It's just there to be able to check marks in a KDE/Windows comparison, but is otherwise useless.
Yes I have read that it was an Microsoft reference design for tablet touchscreens circa Windows 8.I've read its one of Microsoft's "innovations"
Again, the package database/akonadi is responsible for that. You can build it f.e. with SQLite as backend, and afterwards the package multimedia/kdenlive installs without MySQL. Kdenlive itself has no dependency to MySQL. The default to MySQL of akonadi is annoying to me, but as it seems others want it that way… In my opinion SQLite makes here much more sense - that doesn't conflict with other packages, and no unused server has to be installed.it has also needless dependency to kdenlive for example.
This dependency should be changeable at runtime. IIRC I could change Amarok's DB backend from MySQL to SQLite. If pkg(8) does not know about virtual packages for that purpose (e.g. dependency on sqldb_virt can be fulfilled by either mysql, pgsql or sqlite), that's a design flaw of pkg-ng. If it can't be configured after installation, that's a flaw in the implementation of Akonadi. AFAIK the Qt DB interface can handle configuration at runtime.Again, the package database/akonadi is responsible for that. You can build it f.e. with SQLite as backend, and afterwards the package multimedia/kdenlive installs without MySQL. Kdenlive itself has no dependency to MySQL. The default to MySQL of akonadi is annoying to me, but as it seems others want it that way… In my opinion SQLite makes here much more sense - that doesn't conflict with other packages, and no unused server has to be installed.
Unfortunately it is fixed before compiling: https://github.com/KDE/akonadi/blob/master/INSTALLThis dependency should be changeable at runtime.
if I want to install kdenlive, why it is pulling akonadi/mysql server?Again, the package database/akonadi is responsible for that. You can build it f.e. with SQLite as backend, and afterwards the package multimedia/kdenlive installs without MySQL. Kdenlive itself has no dependency to MySQL. The default to MySQL of akonadi is annoying to me, but as it seems others want it that way… In my opinion SQLite makes here much more sense - that doesn't conflict with other packages, and no unused server has to be installed.
Kdenlive requires kf5-purpose; kf5-purpose requires kaccounts-integration; kaccounts-integration requires akonadi; akonadi requires a database. So Kdenlive requires a database. Which one is up to you, but: If you go with the package, it is MySQL.if I want to install kdenlive, why it is pulling akonadi/mysql server?
I have kdenlive installed and working without akonadi and MySQL-server (running sqlite instead).Kdenlive requires kf5-purpose; kf5-purpose requires kaccounts-integration; kaccounts-integration requires akonadi; akonadi requires a database. So Kdenlive requires a database. Which one is up to you, but: If you go with the package, it is MySQL. Using as many third party tools, libs, frameworks as possible is *modern*. If you're not doing this other "programmers" look snippy down on you, telling you that you've got no clue about how things work today. Even for one simple "document.getElementById()"(Javascript) you need many KBs extra for jQuery (so it is shorted to "$()"). If you say "let's do that old fashioned, we don't need jQuery elsewhere" your on the outside.
<scnr mode="curse">Using as many third party tools, libs, frameworks as possible is *modern*. If you're not doing this other "programmers" look snippy down on you, telling you that you've got no clue about how things work today. Even for one simple "document.getElementById()"(Javascript) you need many KBs extra for jQuery (so it is shorted to "$()"). If you say "let's do that old fashioned, we don't need jQuery elsewhere" your on the outside.</scnr>
Haven't test it, but: Compiling Kdenlive without filesharing support should disappear the dependency to kf5-purpose. So that might be a second possibility to get Kdenlive without MySQL (even without any database). To me that's no option (another port relies on akonadi).these are FreeBSD introduced dependencies (a need for akonadi requiring MySQL to get kdenlive).
KDE is/can be really light and very modular. In fact it is lighter than xfce4 if properly configured.
I don't see KDE as "light" - even on Debian it pulls me 150 packages in (checked!) - and that on a machine already running LXQT (so QT5 stuff is already available); On the other side Xfce installs only a dozen packages on the same machine. "Modular" might be, but it really isn't smart. FreeBSD compared to my Debian it is just: different.
> pkg info -d plasma5-kwin | wc -l
74
> pkg info -d xfce | wc -l
14
His point was that it is possible to run a KDE w/o KWin and Plasma - only the kf5-framework stuff - with Openbox WM instead KWin and that makes up a lighter DE than XfCE4. Probably even more feature-rich. Very likely the Debian packages pull in KWin & Plasma packages, like on FreeBSD.I don't see KDE as "light" - even on Debian it pulls me 150 packages in (checked!) [...]
To be honest I am really surprised that someone would refer to the number of packages installed as a measure of lightness or not.So I still use my frankenstein KWin + XFCE (when I can get expose support in another WM that works well I'll stop doing this). I wanted to comment on the "lightness" of KDE by showing the lightness of a subset of KDE...KWin:
Code:> pkg info -d plasma5-kwin | wc -l 74 > pkg info -d xfce | wc -l 14
That's just kwin! I haven't installed the rest of kde but I did have to install a few extra kde packages to get this to work. Note that KWin still hangs randomly, causing me to have to SSH in and kill it. The expose feature is worth this hassle.
You might have a point when these things are exaggerated (I see that for example in the whole "node" ecosystem, npm hell ...) -- but on the other hand, re-inventing the wheel was always frowned upon. KDE is a "full-featured" desktop, and this indeed means a shitload of features -- sure it has a lengthy list of dependencies, and actually, this is just sane reuse of existing libraries in most cases. Yes, a desktop depending on a database server is a bit over the top -- maybe it's just "akonadi" is a bad idea<scnr mode="curse">Using as many third party tools, libs, frameworks as possible is *modern*. If you're not doing this other "programmers" look snippy down on you, telling you that you've got no clue about how things work today. Even for one simple "document.getElementById()"(Javascript) you need many KBs extra for jQuery (so it is shorted to "$()"). If you say "let's do that old fashioned, we don't need jQuery elsewhere" your on the outside.</scnr>
To be honest I am really surprised that someone would refer to the number of packages installed as a measure of lightness or not.
System responsiveness, RAM use, CPU use, that what's count. This is on laptop where I prefer that system is working on battery as long as possible.
Xfce4 in virtual machine is not acceptable as it does not show properly vshares.
To be honest I am really surprised that someone would refer to the number of packages installed as a measure of lightness or not.
System responsiveness, RAM use, CPU use, that what's count. This is on laptop where I prefer that system is working on battery as long as possible.
> ps auwx | grep X
...
root 27354 2.6 0.6 26013796 752208 v2 S 4Jul20 1290:26.32 /usr/local/bin/Xorg :0 -nolisten tcp
Now this box has a lot of RAM to be sure, but 26GB of VSZ is what the X server -itself- takes. I doubt that is considered light by any metric.
Here is another one for you:
https://cooltrainer.org/a-freebsd-desktop-howto/
There is also the scriptdesktop-installer
in the package repository and the ports tree. You simply dopkg install desktop-installer
in a new install and follow the instructions. You can have a basic FreeBSD desktop up and running literally within about 15 minutes.
Well, it turns out that these days, nearly every piece of software requires certain infrastructure. For example, most software uses networks, so you need good RPC support. Most software requires configuration, so they use libraries that know how to decode config files. They store data in interesting formats, which requires record management, and often databases. Given that de-facto all software needs this, wouldn't it make sense if operating systems contained the facilities as a basic part?Kdenlive requires kf5-purpose; kf5-purpose requires kaccounts-integration; kaccounts-integration requires akonadi; akonadi requires a database. So Kdenlive requires a database. Which one is up to you, but: If you go with the package, it is MySQL.
Yes, it is, And for VERY good reasons. It is insane if every developer ends up having to re-invent all the infrastructure for their little project. Using well-made existing projects is much more sensible.<scnr mode="curse">Using as many third party tools, libs, frameworks as possible is *modern*.
virtualbox client FreeBSD xfce4 reports incorrectly contents of virtualbox shares in GUI and CLI. This is not an issue with KDE/Plasma or Openbox (see picture attached)I take care of a low power consumption when buying hardware - the software used on it isn't into question as it is bought therefore. (And as I don't want running software I don't need I always create my own desktop - I would never use a ready KDE, Xfce, LXQT, LXDE, GNOME etc. for my main desktops.)
The look at "how much RAM this and that desktop uses" I've even didn't understand 20 years ago. Really, if it takes 20 MB or 1 MB isn't the point in days 4 GB are called "little". And even in the "128 MB times" I didn't see the difference between f.e. KDE and a simple window manager - both were fast und enough to get my things done. But when it comes to "let's save ressources" I never even thought about using a whole DE; Using any DE says you're having ressources and want to sacrify them for comfort aspects.
The responsiveness thing … may that belong more to QT vs GTK in a VM on *your* setup? Also to this aspect: I cannot see a difference *whatever* desktop I'm using in a VM; Actually I'm using Xfce, LQXT, GNOME and simple window managers in my unixoid VMs, and all I can say is that only the Win 10 VM is less responsiv, all others are equal. (But since the last hardware upgrade - low power consumption of course - the Win 10 thing is gone.) The limit on desktop VMs belonging to responsiveness is in my case more of using VNC than choosing DE x or y.
Also the CPU usage: Requesting a website, moving some files to other drives etc. - everything I'm doing the desktops CPU usage itself is just vanishing in the noise. Over the last years the one thing my computer comes to limits was neither RAM nor CPU, but: disk space.
So yes, I'm taking care of low dependencies when I'm choosing my software. To me that is one indicator of good designed software: Keep it simple. In my opinion "keep it simple" also means not to need 150 third party packages. The concept of sharing libs is great, but todays overflow and the freewheeling and blithely unaware use of them is far too much. To me KF5 is one of the most ugliest things onto this aspect - and there was a time Kdenlive didn't need this whole monster (!). And even that time: I remember Kdenlive had heavy dependencies on strange third party tools not really needed to just cut movies.
What are vshares? If that are mountable disks: Just make an entry in fstab, and Thunar should show them.
All of those are concerns. Clearly, if the tradeoff is to use a giant package (100 page manual, lawyers have to do special work to deal with license agreement, repeat offender in vulnerabilities...) to save 10 lines of code, you don't do it. That's good engineering common sense. On the other hand, re-implementing things just to "own" them means that you own all of their downsides too: If it breaks, you can't get any help with fixing it, because it's only your own fault.There are other sides to this.
Rolling your own code gives you ownership of the underlying infrastructure and escapes any concerns over software license compatibility. If it breaks, you wrote it and presumably know how to fix it. If a third party library breaks, it may take you a long time to either come up with a fix or wait for a fix upstream.
Lots of libraries do more than I want. This larger surface area carries more bugs and a higher risk of CVEs. I see the same libraries in 'pkg audit' over and over.
Efficience is a good point.Still, if a library of reasonably quality exists to solve a problem, and using it is more efficient than solving the problem yourself, then use it.