NEVER let Freebsd become like Ubuntu

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Beastie

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I think GNU/Linux has too long muddied up UNIX philosophy and if we can almost see Linux as just another free OS (Like Haiku) rather than a UNIX-like OS then that will allow a true UNIX-like OS to take center stage and do things correctly.
^ This, x1000.

Remember, if BSD got their licensing shite together back in the day, Linux and the GNU mentality* might not have bloated out almost every bit of software created.
Nay, Linux wouldn't have existed in the first place. "If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never have happened." -- Linus Torvalds, 1993
Maybe Hurd would've taken over its role as default kernel. Maybe the entire GNU thing would've had a totally different face. No one can really tell, but for sure it would've been a very different world.

For the record, I think the GNU license is extremely important and great. Whereas the sloppy dependency mindset of GNU developers is terrible. As it stands, typical GNU/Gnome style software is almost on par with closed-source software in terms of digital preservation!
For end-user products at most, some may argue...
 

kpedersen

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Nay, Linux wouldn't have existed in the first place..
Exactly.

I wonder what would have become the most common FOSS if neither BSD or Linux were around?
My vote would be Minix or Plan 9 but both were still quite encumbered back then. Perhaps GNU/Hurd would have finally found the sheer number of developers needed to "fix her up" ;).

Either way, I'm glad something appeared. I would hate to be stuck on Windows these days. That would be a very dangerous position to be in.
 

kpedersen

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why actually? many still use it as main OS.
Basically for all intents and purposes Windows is "complete". Its not going to get any better, they are just going to keep dressing it up, cause breakages and most of all, monetize.

These monetization schemes are going to get crazy, you just wait and see ;)

And the best thing is that the idiots just accept them!

Idiot User in 2025 said:
Of course I should have to pay £100 a month to use Windows. Microsoft needs to be paid for their good work and support
Idiot User in 2029 said:
I am saving lots of money by only subscribing to weekend-Windows. This means I only have to pay £250 over the year instead of £1000.
Idiot User in 2035 said:
No, I'm not moving out of the city. My work requires I use a computer and obviously I cannot stream my Windows OS outside the city limits.
All of us in 2050 said:
It sucks that I am not legally allowed to buy a physical computer to do work on and play with and stuff :(
Idiot User in 2065 said:
Kill him!, I saw him use a computer once, he is a criminal!
 

Spartrekus

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The longer there are similar source code for things like graphical applications, ... and so on.
There could be some possibilities that things look the same. scrot, feh,.....

But...

There is however the crucial thing is that kernel and base are not common at all and quite different from Linux world.
it protects BSD from ubuntu spywares and stuffs.

BSD is not dedicated for the desktop, luckily.

You wrote....
Microsoft flooded the market with it so it's the dominant player.
Actually, by installing and using Linux Ubuntu, maybe, the user want to use a sort of *Free* Windows Desktop. They are using the Ubuntu desktop without knowing the console, because of Microsoft OS habits.

You wrote... about years and possible changes.
Maybe in 100 years, it won't be allowed to use opensource operating systems - for X whatever reason(s).

Apple, Android Google, Microsoft rule the market.

Why to buy a notebook, phone,... running a (fully or /partially) closed source operating system? Best example: Android or Apple phones.
 

hruodr

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Windows has a very important role and we must be glad it is there: becoming always fatter, needing always more resources, and hence creating continuously demand for always more powerful hardware that is responded with more supply and lower prices.

Without windows, we would be running FreeBSD on very expensive computers with 80386 processors (and the rest DOS).
 

Spartrekus

Aspiring Daemon

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Windows has a very important role and we must be glad it is there: becoming always fatter, needing always more resources, and hence creating continuously demand for always more powerful hardware that is responded with more supply and lower prices.

Without windows, we would be running FreeBSD on very expensive computers with 80386 processors (and the rest DOS).
Indeed. I read this today on a bottle of shampoo:
* Be smarter save water and energy *
 

yuripv

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While I agree with all the shortcomings and aggressive marketing of Windows land, I'm still using it on my "desktop", as it's just more usable than anything linux world did come up with to this moment (I'm talking about desktop stuff and that's exactly what we have in ports).

The Ubuntu bug #1 is the worst mistake IMO in linux land. You don't need or want to be fighting windows, you need to provide usable solutions. Instead of that we have zounds of incompatible UI toolkits, all looking so different, zounds of DEs, a lot of "desktop" bloat just to be like windows.

I absolutely love FreeBSD internals, but once I do a "startx" I just keep coming back to Win10 (only for the "desktop", of course).
 

Spartrekus

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While I agree with all the shortcomings and aggressive marketing of Windows land, I'm still using it on my "desktop", as it's just more usable than anything linux world did come up with to this moment (I'm talking about desktop stuff and that's exactly what we have in ports).

The Ubuntu bug #1 is the worst mistake IMO in linux land. You don't need or want to be fighting windows, you need to provide usable solutions. Instead of that we have zounds of incompatible UI toolkits, all looking so different, zounds of DEs, a lot of "desktop" bloat just to be like windows.

I absolutely love FreeBSD internals, but once I do a "startx" I just keep coming back to Win10 (only for the "desktop", of course).
It is physics maybe to get fatter and slower.

Evolution of Linux looks similar than Windows.
Today modern KDE is slow and heavy, compared to original kde 1.1.2.
 

yuripv

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When did you program for first time? Visibly, you do care about resource, memory usage,...

Btw, right now, I use evilwm. ;)
End of '80s, I guess, learning asm on zx spectrum (it was very popular in USSR back then).

But it's not really about resources or memory usage, it's about control -- if I want a "desktop" with all the bells and whistles, I just use Windows or MacOS. I don't need yet another one running on FreeBSD. And WM is just WM, you still need lots of other software to glue it all together, and repeating myself, once I do that, I no longer understand why I need all those packages installed (partly influenced by NIH syndrome so popular among linux developers) and all those services running.

I'm really not into the long posts as I feel what I'm writing is hard to follow already, so to stay on topic -- I'd rephrase the subject as "Never let FreeBSD make the same mistake as linux trying to win over some other OS" because "if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you".
 

hruodr

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yuripv, it would be interesting to know, what is in Windows that you miss in FreeBSD. Do you find no alternative?
 

yuripv

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yuripv, it would be interesting to know, what is in Windows that you miss in FreeBSD. Do you find no alternative?
Don't get me wrong, almost all of my hardware works with FreeBSD (except bluetooth, but I don't have any real usage for it), if it doesn't I can (hopefully) fix it; almost all of the programs I need for work are the same (firefox, thunderbird, terminals, ...). It's just that windows looks like "complete solution" (I'm well aware of the costs), I don't need any magic for scaling to work on a 4K monitor, I don't need to enter cli commands to connect to another wifi AP (the long list of usability stuff follows) -- now if I try to do the same on FreeBSD, I need a lot of bloat from ports, and it all feels clumsy and amateur compared to windows. You can say that I'm just lazy and spoiled by windows, and that would be correct; sometimes I just hate I don't have any real issues there and there's nothing forcing me to use FreeBSD only.
 

hruodr

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shkhln, emacs has an hexl-mode. Did you try it?

yuripv, if you do not want to use cli and want to have all in GUI, it is perhaps indeed as you say.

I, for example, write text with plain TeX, other may use troff, it is perhaps much more work than to use MS word, but it is the habit of years of writing text in this "complicated way". The same with the cli.
 

shkhln

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