Is suspend ever going to work with FreeBSD.

ralphbsz

Daemon

Thanks: 719
Messages: 1,231

#51
We've been over this multiple times now. You are refusing to let reality interfere with your fantasy world and fanaticism.

...I really do not understand why it is not in use by its developers, on their presentations, meetings etc, while it is really pretty easy to do so, 5 minutes are only needed to install Xorg and WM.

I don't know, I'm not a FreeBSD developer. My educated guess is: They use whatever desktop OS they are most productive with. Would you prefer that they use something they are less productive with? Do you want a FreeBSD developer waste his time installing a desktop OS he doesn't actually wish to run? Just to make a political point, or just to make a fan-boy happy?

My guess it is because FreeBSD project is heavily influenced by Apple,

You keep spouting that nonsense, without offering any evidence for it to be true. Are there a lot of FreeBSD committers and developers that are Apple employees? Is Apple paying a lot of the expenses of the FreeBSD foundation? Do lot of developers get orders from Apple? None of those things are true.

And I really dislike this situation very much, because I like FreeBSD much
Then please stop spreading lies about it.

For example, try to connect your iphone to FreeBSD (or to any other Free OS) laptop and try to upload some music,
it is impossible, why? Because Apple (as Adobe, for example) do not support their products on Free operating systems.
Why? I think it is obvious why.
Yes, it is obvious. If you look at the market share for desktop operating systems, all free operating systems together are about 1% or so. Of that, the lion's share is Linux. The market share of FreeBSD on the desktop is a tiny fraction of a percent. It is simply not worth it for a corporation (in particular for one such as Apple, which is interested in its products to be close to perfection) to release its consumer software (such as iTunes) in FreeBSD versions. Note that iTunes is available for Windows ... not because Apple loves Microsoft (nothing could be further from the truth), but because Windows has a big market share on the desktop (around 90%).

If you think Apple is directly benefiting from current FreeBSD development, think again. As far as I know, Apple has stopped taking kernel code from the *BSD branches somewhere in the mid-1990s. That's a long time ago.
 

ILUXA

Aspiring Daemon

Thanks: 361
Messages: 595

#52
I don't want to argue with you, it is not my point, all what I wrote — is only my personal opinion.
My point was, that it will looks much better, if FreeBSD will be used on FreeBSD events IMHO,
and not macOS, because for now such FreeBSD events (presentations, meetings, etc),
or interviews with some FreeBSD developers, advertise macOS and not FreeBSD.
And advertising is the engine of trade, what is pretty good for Apple. I'm quiting this thread
because I've already wrote all that I wanted to say.

P.S.:
all free operating systems together are about 1% or so
It will never change if every company will ignore such operating systems.
 

drhowarddrfine

Son of Beastie

Thanks: 909
Messages: 2,774

#53
My guess it is because FreeBSD project is heavily influenced by Apple
That would be a pretty outrageous guess on your part. Particularly since it is Apple's OSX that includes portions of FreeBSD's user space inside.
I hate such evil, ugly, disgusting moneymaking corporations like Apple and Microsoft.
That is a socialist viewpoint. One needs a strong reason to create and motivate a company to do large things and money is the biggest motivator in a capitalist society but that will be the end of my political commentary. You can't make everyone happy with a mass produced product and any attempt at doing so will doom it to failure.
 

ILUXA

Aspiring Daemon

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Messages: 595

#54
That is a socialist viewpoint.
If you don't like Apple and Microsoft, doesn't mean you're a communist, at least in my country :D
It is just two ugly companies, which produce ugly goods IMHO. For example, I like Nike,
they produce nice air force 1 trainers :) with help from hungry vietnam kids :D
 

Snurg

Aspiring Daemon

Thanks: 326
Messages: 794

#55
Suspend is a hit&miss, sadly.
Maybe we need a better infra structure to debug it?
But back on topic, I think I will check again what process checkpointing requires. My preference would be to have a device to obtain snapshots of processes and maybe the complete system, which might then be loaded again.
Maelstorm made a very good proposal in 2012.
However, there was little forthcoming from the core devs, so he had to mothball the project.

I would be more than willing to join an interest group of people interested in making suspend/resume work on FreeBSD.
But I guess there would be needed more people like you that are not "outsiders" to the developers, or even put under moderation/pre-ban as evil guys like me, just to have a critical mass.

...remarkable about OpenBSD guys is that we eat our own dog food. I have never meet an OpenBSD developer or a power user like myself whose laptop was not running only OpenBSD (no dual boot no VM, no nonsense, nada, just pure OpenBSD UNIX). All of us use OpenBSD to give presentations with VGA, DVI, HDMI projectors.
Indeed - if the FreeBSD devs would eat their own dog food and use their OS on bare metal instead only in VMs, the UX on Mac hardware won't be that horrible like Nicola Mingotti described very well.
The reason why I switched to Linux instead of OpenBSD for desktop use are: no ZFS, in parts very old software base (KDE on OpenBSD is still 3.5...), no nouveau, Bluetooth and all that funky stuff.

It all depends on the Linux, probably one of the few distribution putting a lot of attention to the Desktop experience is Ubuntu. In Debian, you will have troubles, and you will need to spend a lot of days in chats, and mixed resources reading, and doing a lot of try&pray undocumented stuff.
Ubuntu is good, of course. But I feel it is overdoing, damaging ones' configuration in the attempt to be helpful. I tried it out a few years ago, but it hibernates less reliably than Debian.

So I installed Debian, with all DMs it offered checked, and SDDM as login manager (because systemd loves it).
Then I disabled graphical login and autoupgrade, installed FVWM, upgraded to kernel 4.15.4, installed zfs-initramfs (consider that as zfs meta package) and set up ZFS pool. Then copied data over from FreeBSD machine. I have made small (100GB) system partition using ext4 and separate boot partition easy to backup as whole (just dd it to other disk or other identical partition and change its label+UUID, as makeshift alternative to boot environments).
Hibernate works excellently with systemctl hibernate (yes, systemd...)
It is quite easy, but this is probably because I have been using Linux for desktop long time already until suspend/resume was introduced on FreeBSD.

You many need ... software wich is ONLY for Windows.
I have a Windows HDD which I use for firmware updating, just plug it in and run the updater, and remove it afterwards.
So it's true that everybody needs Windows, including me :)
By the way, hibernate isn't enabled by default even on Windows. Just because of all those exotic hardware that can break it.
 

dch

Active Member

Thanks: 37
Messages: 103

#56
wrt 22, I'm using firefox daily & continuously, and iridium (keeping work and general stuff separate), on laptop & desktop both running 12.0-CURRENT, with no issues.
I think webrtc is the only thing that I'd *really* like to work in a browser these days. So what is "unstable" for you?

For power, https://wiki.freebsd.org/TuningPowerConsumption has helped me a lot. My laptop gets ~8h with either scfb or intel graphics i915kms drivers running, I notice that wifi & screen brightness are the 2 remaining biggest impacts. What settings have you tried? this is more than enough for my general usage.

suspend/resume BTW works perfectly for me for > 1 year, albeit using 12.0-CURRENT to get working i915kms drivers, apart from a breakage somewhere after r330408 that I am currently too busy to hunt down exactly where it is but I'll get there eventually.
 

Snurg

Aspiring Daemon

Thanks: 326
Messages: 794

#57
dch
The Intel 915 driver works fine with sleep (S3 suspend). Which is the reason why the thinkpads work fine with FreeBSD.
What is annoying is the fact that there are no Intel graphics cards. It's all onboard stuff.

Nvidia -> broken by vt/vesa.ko since the introduction of the latter. When removing vt/vesa from kernel, wakeup failed with newer nvidia drivers, and never was really reliable. Resuming would fail once in every ~10 restarts. If virtualbox is running, it always fails.
radeon -> tried once, bad experience, just too many issues, including resume not to work.

For my part, I am very satisfied with having migrated to Linux on my main workstation. systemctl hibernate (S4 suspend) just works, no matter whether vbox is running (nvidia card).
But I'd go back to FreeBSD the day when there is a working hibernate. (Even in spite of the three-letter thing which never must be called by name to avoid to be put under moderation on this forum.)
 

Beastie7

Well-Known Member

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Messages: 342

#58

PMc

Member

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Messages: 96

#59
Just tried to read this thread.
I don't understand one point: You're talking "desktop", while actually you seem to say "laptop".
FBSD works fine on desktop (even S3 works flawlessly), and there have been big efforts in the past to make this possible (e.g. getting the intel embedded graphics to work).
Laptop is a different thing, everything is nonstandard there and intended to be fixed by the BIOS and included drivers. Once I considered to install FBSD on laptop, but then decided it's not worth the effort.

If I were to buy a laptop now, I probably would choose Apple (at least thats what I recommend to others). These guys did the one thing that makes sense (which, btw, anybody of You could have done as well): they took the berkeley stuff and wrote the missing GUI in a way like the typical stupid, snobbish consumer does expect it.
 

freebsdinator

Member

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Messages: 38

#60
Unfortunately, if you use Nvidia GPU with FreeBSD, suspend won't work for you.


The only possibility to have a working suspend on FreeBSD, is to use crappy Intel integrated graphics.
I'm not sure about AMD, because I've never tried to use it.
I've had good luck with NVIDIA with one trick. When you're in X, go to the command with ctrl-alt-f1. Close the lid then it will suspend. When it's time to resume, open the lid, hit ctrl alt f9 to go back to X. It will reset the video.

I've only done this on one machine using the legacy NVIDIA driver.
 

wesbl

New Member

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Messages: 13

#61
I7 7700 Integrated graphics on a fanless desktop built by me.

Suspend seems to work but after wake I have glitches and I can't see anything.
The desktop still working, I can run commands but I see only a fullscreen rainbow glich.

Any advice? Thanks
 
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