Is suspend ever going to work with FreeBSD.

s5e

Member

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Messages: 22

#1
Few times a year I test FreeBSD with my laptop and every time there's same fault. FreeBSD do not resume from suspend.
This makes FreeBSD unusable with laptops and it stays server OS forever.

I there was fully supported laptop available, I would buy it instantly.
 

ILUXA

Aspiring Daemon

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Messages: 545

#3
Unfortunately, if you use Nvidia GPU with FreeBSD, suspend won't work for you.
The only possibility to have a working suspend on FreeBSD, is to use crappy Intel integrated graphics.
I'm not sure about AMD, because I've never tried to use it.
 

Phishfry

Son of Beastie

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#9
I use S3 power state for the lid on my Dell E6430, E6420's.
These are SandyBridge and IvyBridge without Optimus.

I can close the lid and it sleeps, open the lid and it resumes. Wireless network hiccups for a minuite and then all is good.
 

Nicola Mingotti

Active Member

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Messages: 245

#10
since many years i use all Unix(s) (linux, openbsd and now freebsd) in my laptop as virtual machines. It is the only way i can survive all kind of driver problems. I higly reccomend this way to all people working mainly on laptop, as i do. (sorry for no-case text, i am writing on phone)
 

kpedersen

Daemon

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#12
since many years i use all Unix(s) (linux, openbsd and now freebsd) in my laptop as virtual machines. It is the only way i can survive all kind of driver problems.
I used to do that and it worked well. However since Windows 8, I simply refuse to put a Microsoft OS online. It isn't that I don't trust them, they have after all, been very open and honest with how they digitally fsck over their users. Unfortunately I still cannot accept being fsked over (I must be strange or something!).
The only way I will do it is by isolating the host machine and only letting the guest running FreeBSD access the network. Unfortunately this tends to be quite a faff and over WiFi this is very flaky but once it matures (if it ever does), then I might very well do the same again.

Also when it comes to things like peripherals (usb sticks, webcams, usb wifi, etc) getting them to the VM in a practical manner is often tricky. Suspending whilst these are attached to the VM rarely works any better than suspending FreeBSD running natively on the correct hardware.

Basically, the year is 2018 and our computing experience absolutely sucks! Can't wait for 2019; that will almost certainly be worse ;)
 

JAW

Member

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Messages: 33

#13
I've recently been using FreeBSD on my MacBookAir daily on the train, admittedly suspend/resume doesn't work, but when you can boot and power down in a few seconds I don't find I'm missing much.
 

aragats

Aspiring Daemon

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#14
I've recently been using FreeBSD on my MacBookAir daily on the train, admittedly suspend/resume doesn't work, but when you can boot and power down in a few seconds I don't find I'm missing much.
It depends on what you use it for (-;
Almost two years I used my ThinkPad suspending twice a day: taking home and back to workplace. I worked on 2-3 projects and could not close all my windows/terminals/virtual machines.
 

Snurg

Aspiring Daemon

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#15
It depends on what you use it for (-;
worked on 2-3 projects and could not close all my windows/terminals/virtual machines.
Exactly this is my problem, too.
And S3 suspend is just not sufficient (if it works at all on FreeBSD):
  • For laptops: If the battery is already low, you cannot depend on the sleeping machine survive long enough until you can connect it to an AC outlet again.
  • For desktops: Sometimes you want to reconfigure the AC wiring.
  • For servers or number-crunching: If the UPS signals blackout and batteries go low.
This is the reason why many people need an OS that reliably does not only S3 suspend (sleep), but even masters S4 suspend (hibernate).
And this in turn is why I am phasing out FreeBSD as desktop and laptop OS in favor of Linux.
 

Eric A. Borisch

Well-Known Member

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#17
I’ve got suspend and even hibernate (admittedly via a hardware/firmware assist) runing on my x230.

But as I’ve said elsewhere, if I were directing FreeBSD’s priorities, suspend/resume/laptop+desktop focused tweaks would not be high on the list.
 

Nicola Mingotti

Active Member

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Messages: 245

#20
Exactly this is my problem, too.
And this in turn is why I am phasing out FreeBSD as desktop and laptop OS in favor of Linux.
Hi Snurg !

Some warnings before you switch to Linux as Desktop, I come from that situation.

1] It all depends on the Linux, probably one of the few distribution putting a lot of attention to the Desktop experience is Ubuntu. In Debian, you will have troubles, and you will need to spend a lot of days in chats, and mixed resources reading, and doing a lot of try&pray undocumented stuff.

2] When I crossed my fingers and moved to FreeBSD for the Desktop I was motivated by the following situation. I was trying to control a network of BeagleBone(s) from Linux and I was in complete despair. Things were not working well and I was not able to sort them out. So, I started another virtual machine with OpenBSD, from Linux I was doing ssh to OpenBSD and from OpenBSD controlling the various BeagleBones.
=> in OpenBSD stuff worked.
=> I tried to move my Desktop env. to OpenBSD, not satisfactory, in my OpenBSD notes there is written "Impossible to watch Youtube video tutorials" => un-usable as desktop. [notes taken on release 6.0]
=> After a while I tried to move the desktop to FreeBSD, ok, more or less I have the same stuff I had working in Debian. But here things are much more controllable and understandable.

Conclusion. For my experience there is not a silver bullet OS for Desktop. All of them will satisfy and displease you under different points of view, it is only a matter of time.

Extra.
Take OSX, which is superlative under many points of view as a Desktop OS. Once you focus on programming it will start to get into your way. [*] you can't open two independent copies of the same process e.g. Emacs [*] it has its annoying way of managing automatically network interfaces [*] racoon (VPN) => nightmare [*] one day Apple wakes up and decides you can't use any more a matrix of desktops, the must be in a single row [*] Another days Apple decides that a desktop containing a full screen window does not obey the same sorting rules applied to other desktops ... after a while I got sick of it.

For this reason, I suggest you to take a different approach, choose an OS which is able to resolve 99-100% of your hardware. Then install run VMWare or VirtualBoX and run a OS you love in there.

When I was about 20 I spent 1-2 months to have Debian working in white Apple Macbook, wiping immediately out that crappy macOS running buy default in that epoch. Architecture was not even x86 ! It was a tremendous effort, nothing was working ! ... These are the kind of thing you can only do at first years of university;)
 

Oko

Daemon

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#21
2] When I crossed my fingers and moved to FreeBSD for the Desktop I was motivated by the following situation. I was trying to control a network of BeagleBone(s) from Linux and I was in complete despair. Things were not working well and I was not able to sort them out. So, I started another virtual machine with OpenBSD, from Linux I was doing ssh to OpenBSD and from OpenBSD controlling the various BeagleBones.
=> in OpenBSD stuff worked.
=> I tried to move my Desktop env. to OpenBSD, not satisfactory, in my OpenBSD notes there is written "Impossible to watch Youtube video tutorials" => un-usable as desktop. [notes taken on release 6.0]
=> After a while I tried to move the desktop to FreeBSD, ok, more or less I have the same stuff I had working in Debian. But here things are much more controllable and understandable.
As a hard core OpenBSD user (I use FreeBSD only at work for ZFS file servers and Jails) nothing makes me more worm and fuzzy than the posts like these. It an indicator that for foreseeable future OpenBSD will remain no nonsense community of highly skilled professionals and serious hobbyists. I don't go to BSD and Linux conferences often but when I go one remarkable think about OpenBSD guys is that we eat our own dog food. I have never meet an OpenBSD developer or a power user like myself whose laptop was not running only OpenBSD (no dual boot no VM, no nonsense, nada, just pure OpenBSD UNIX). All of us use OpenBSD to give presentations with VGA, DVI, HDMI projectors.

You can ask admins to show you fingerprints of the browser from which I am posting this replay. For the record since early 2007 never had anything but OpenBSD on my desktops (used Solaris, Irix, Tru64 before that) and watching classical music on youtube all the time.

For this reason, I suggest you to take a different approach, choose an OS which is able to resolve 99-100% of your hardware. Then install run VMWare or VirtualBoX and run a OS you love in there.
In another words you are one of those guys who has being using that "other OS" all these years but feel competent enough to give advise to incoming FreeBSD users. No shit...
 

Nicola Mingotti

Active Member

Thanks: 101
Messages: 245

#22
As a hard core OpenBSD user (I use FreeBSD only at work for ZFS file servers and Jails) ....
In another words you are one of those guys who has being using that "other OS" all these years but feel competent enough to give advise to incoming FreeBSD users. No shit...
Absolutely not ! Indeed Snurg knows this very well, I am a beginner in FreeBSD. And in another occasion, my reccomandation was to use Linux. Zero fanatism one my side. I support what i think works and creates less problem overall.
 

ralphbsz

Daemon

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#23
I was trying to control a network of BeagleBone(s) from Linux and I was in complete despair. Things were not working well and I was not able to sort them out. So, I started another virtual machine with OpenBSD, from Linux I was doing ssh to OpenBSD and from OpenBSD controlling the various BeagleBones.
Please explain what you mean by "control network of BeagleBone": What OS were the BeagleBones running, and in what fashion were you controlling them? What part didn't work in Linux? How did OpenBSD improve matters? I'm interested in the details; I don't have a network of BeagleBones, but a much smaller system: one FreeBSD server, one Linux Raspberry data acquisition node, and two more RPi on the workbench waiting to be outfitted, programmed and deployed.

By the way, this question has nothing to do with desktop usage and suspend.
 

Sensucht94

Well-Known Member

Thanks: 310
Messages: 335

#24
As a hard core OpenBSD user (I use FreeBSD only at work for ZFS file servers and Jails) nothing makes me more worm and fuzzy than the posts like these. It an indicator that for foreseeable future OpenBSD will remain no nonsense community of highly skilled professionals and hobbyists. I don't go to BSD and Linux and conferences often but when I go one remarkable think about OpenBSD guys is that we eat our own food. I have never meet an OpenBSD developer or a power user like myself whose laptop was not running only OpenBSD (no dual boot no VM, no nonsense, nada, just pure OpenBSD UNIX). All of us use OpenBSD to give presentations with VGA, DVI, HDMI projectors.

You can ask admins to show you fingerprints of the browser from which I am posting this replay. For the record since early 2007 never had anything but OpenBSD on my desktops (used Solaris, Irix, Tru64 before that) and watching classical music on youtube all the time.
Well said Oko. I have friends in IT, computer science, and a sysadmin friend all of which are forced to use Linux by University/employer. They escape to Windows/macOS every time they can and be it far from them to use Linux on desktop (some of them are gamers, some other just like spyware).

When they see an amateur like me comfortably using some *BSD on my laptop, I can perceive the suprise in their eyes, as well as bit of envy and self-esteem drop for not having been 'as brave', but above all, I can sense them making laugh of me considering that to be just ridicolous, and my behavior pretentious.

I just don't care; I think that if you like an OS, its structure, documentation, goals, community....you'd better just use it, or you'll always feel unsatisfied with your PC. And that would be unfortunate, as decent hardware still costs enough nowadays.....FreeBSD devs using macs is pure nonsense to me: even if I were into FreeBSD developement only to work on Kernel or server-targeted stuff, I'd still use it on desktop, since FreeBSD is a general purpose OS per definition, and if I chose to support a project, I'd do my best to help support all its goals, especially in official public/press conferences, for me it's just everything or nothing

Not here to argue about why I prefer FreeBSD over OpenBSD on my laptop (it's practically sure they respectively meet different needs for our desktop usage), but I'll share another experience of mine, which involves using FreeDOS on one of my laptops for 2 years. I had come to like FreeDOS (software, devs, community, documentation), and used to be quite active on the freedos-user mailing list. I decided to put it on my desktop (no dual boot no VM, no nonsense, nada, just pure 16-bit DOS) and that was purely to support the project (well, and to play games during time off). I created a couple of batch files to render pdfs and docs with ghiostscript, and display them in series with some dos image viewers. Actually I did a lot more on it, even started learning programming. People were scared to see my laptop, I laughed meanwhile a lot, just had a lot of fun
 

Nicola Mingotti

Active Member

Thanks: 101
Messages: 245

#25
Please explain what you mean by "control network of BeagleBone": What OS were the BeagleBones running, and in what fashion were you controlling them? What part didn't work in Linux? How did OpenBSD improve matters? I'm interested in the details; I don't have a network of BeagleBones, but a much smaller system: one FreeBSD server, one Linux Raspberry data acquisition node, and two more RPi on the workbench waiting to be outfitted, programmed and deployed.

By the way, this question has nothing to do with desktop usage and suspend.
These are the step I followed and their motivation, at the best I can remember.

1] BeagleBone Black is different respect RPI, it comes with Linux preloaded in built in memory.
2] BBB comes with the possiblity to connect via USB as if it was a network device, address
by defaul si 192.168.7.2, by heart.
3] If you try to connect to it via OSX 10.11.6 (even installing the suggested drivers) you will
go crazy. Sometimes it works sometims it does not (experiments took place several months ago)
4] I found problems connecting event to buitin serial via OSX.
5] About 8 months ago I had (3 BBB, 2 RPI, 2 Soekris, 2 Alix) available to deploy.
6] Since OSX was driving me crazy (in trying to connecto the them) I had two solutions to try [1] OpenBSD [2] Linux. Linux because it was my Desktop OS (running in VMware inside OSX). OpenBSD because i used before it in other servers and I liked the documentation. Expecially I appreciated it when I set up a VPN server.
7] OpenBSD resulted in a perfectly stable serial connection
8] OpenBSD resulted best solution (for documentation and stability) for :
8.1] setting up a NAT, for the embedded systems
8.2] Setting up the routing rules, firewall, DHCPD, and SFTPD (that was mainly for Soekris and ALIX)
8.3] I tried to do the same stuff in Debian (which was my default VMWachine) it was much
more difficult to set up and documentation was super scattered. I was never sure 100%
what i was doing was correct.
9] => At some point I decied all embedded stuff that needed maintenance or a different configuration should have been connected directly to my laptop (and old macbook) and controlled via serial by the OpenBSD VirtualMachine; their network managed, again, by the OpenBSD VM.
10] Next, when I was able to control well the BBB, that means GPIO, PWM,
ADC and PRUS; I decied that it was my preferred platform for small embedded and automation. I abandoned the RPI.
11] One day I decied to make a Wifi Router for the office with a BBB. Since networking in OpenBSD has always proved to me to be better organized than in Linux I wanted to make int in OpenBSD. I tried to install OpenBSD in BBB, but USB was not working, that made it un-usable, since USB is necessary for the USB-Wifi dongle.
13] I looked for alternatives, FreeBSD popped up, I never used it before (this was
approximately last December)
14] FreeBSD-11.1 boots well in BBB, and it has USB support
15] FreeBSD is well documented as OpenBSD
15.1] I must say, respect to OpenBSD, FreeBSD is less "ready to deploy" when I finish the install,
e.g. there is no "mg" (fundamental, I am of the church of Emacs, you say what you want)
nor "dhcpd", and I don't like much "csh". But, that are no issues. I install what i need.
16] I made my Wifi Router in FreeBSD and i am using it right now to write this message. It works very well, and it is very stable. Far superior to what I can buy at a comparable price in the local electronics store.
17] I was very enthusiastic, i started to consider to try FreeBSD even as a desktop environment.
18] Those are the days I discovered this forum, and the first people I met, were in the
Embedded Forum, of course. So Snurg, aragats , Trihexagonal , Phishfry are
the first friendly names I remember.
19] After a few months of experiments I am using only the FreeBSD virtual machine, I moved
the Debian in an external disk. I use this system for about 12 hours a day.
20] Now I don't need a separate VM to control one, two, or more embedded systems
let them be connected via USB-serial or Ethernet. I can do it all from my desktop VM, which
is very practical.
21] FreeBSD recognizes well USB-over-ethernet coming from BBB, which is great.
22] There are some issues in FreeBSD as a desktop, one of which IMO are unstable browsers, another can be power saving (I don't need it, because I run in a VM).
23] Having tried many other systems, what FreeBSD lacks it gains in consistency and documentation. That is my impression and my point.
 
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