How to install Wayland?

fel1x

Member

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Messages: 72

First of all, where is wayland forum(there's X.Org forum, but I couldn't find wayland forum)
Do I need to instal xorg to use wayland or I should install wayland only?
What's the name of wayland pkg? Just 'sudo pkg install wayland"?
The sequence how to install gnome on wayland
Is Nvidia is better or AMD is better for Wayland?
Is Nvidia is better or AMD is better for Xorg?
 

kpedersen

Son of Beastie

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Arguably Wayland is pretty much a Gnome or KDE thing at this point (there are so few stand-alone compositors). So perhaps just post specific questions in those sections.

Just be aware that Gnome & Wayland isn't particularly common on FreeBSD so there might be very few who can answer your questions on it.
 

unitrunker

Aspiring Daemon

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You can run a wayland app inside sway. That might be a good for playing with wayland without moving to a whole new desktop.
 

George

Aspiring Daemon

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Do I need to instal xorg to use wayland or I should install wayland only?
Just install wayland. No need for xorg-server.

What's the name of wayland pkg? Just 'sudo pkg install wayland"?
I would install a window manager, e.g. x11-wm/hikari, or x11-wm/sway. They have a dependency on wayland. pkg install wayland is also fine.

I haven't tried gnome3 yet. :-/ Usually, you just install the window manager. Then read through its configuration file (to learn the hotkeys and stuff), Then start it e.g. with commands like hikari, or sway. No need for xinitrc..

So for gnome, my guess is to run gnome-session with either "--session gnome-wayland", or set some environment variable (this? XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland). But this is pure guessing..

This is the (outdated?) overview of wayland on FreeBSD. FreeBSD Graphics Wayland

Wayland needs evdev(), which never versions of FreeBSD have anyways. Also, you need to set XDG_RUNTIME_DIR. (e.g. setenv XDG_RUNTIME_DIR /tmp).

Is Nvidia is better or AMD is better for Wayland?
Is Nvidia is better or AMD is better for Xorg?
Not sure. Generally, they are both supported.
 

jb_fvwm2

Daemon

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Messages: 1,830

In the openbsd forums, one just posted that Xorg is abandonware as of ... now? and Wayland is 'the
future'. So would it be wise for users to setup beta wayland environments in case Xorg is
actually deprecated?
/edit/
I tried sway-wayland, but after a page of 'fixes' it cannot find drm nor its server: so I gave up.
"failed to open any drm device" ... "sway/server: unable to create backend. "
 

kpedersen

Son of Beastie

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So would it be wise for users to setup beta wayland environments in case Xorg is
actually deprecated?

I believe the abandonware rumor started at Phoronix (Linux gaming forums). The Xorg developers probably don't know anything about this nonsense ;)

IMO it is not a good use of time. I am very convinced that by the time that Xorg is finally deprecated, Wayland will also be replaced with something else. Gnome 4 will bring something else.

Or so many Xorg components like randr, xlib and other compatibility layers will be bolted on to Wayland that you are better off knowing how to use X11 more than the non-standard underlying wl_roots stuff.

Wayland is basically a Gnome 3 thing. Sure, one guy has made a tiling WM called sway to mimic i3 but that is still niche in terms of use.

Out of interest, which OpenBSD forums are these? I don't imagine the OpenBSD community was particularly supportive of the idea of Wayland? I also wonder if FreeBSD will move to Xenocara rather than Xorg like a couple of projects have done. Exact same Xorg but a nicer monolithic build architecture. None of this typical Linux-style modular monolith stuff!
 

kpedersen

Son of Beastie

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Ah that daemon forums post looks like one kids random vendetta against Xorg XD
He is basically posting any vague news item he finds.

What I find strange is that Phoronix would announce such a random bit of information. I just had a check of the repo here: https://github.com/freedesktop/xorg-xserver

And I can clearly see even more development work on the Xorg-xserver than more Wayland projects. Bizarre.

Must be a slow news day for Phoronix ;)
 

Beastie7

Aspiring Daemon

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I think FreeBSDs best bet is to provide a patch set for xorg (ie. Xenocara), and just backport any needed improvements/changes. Until all important applications and drivers support Wayland; it’ll continue to be a sitting duck... 11 years in counting. :)
 

kpedersen

Son of Beastie

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“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."
Yeah. Who knows, perhaps this will trigger the Xorg X11 devs to put out an announcement if it was on life support. At this point I feel that it could just as easily be "we have given up on Wayland. It was a useful experiment".
 

Samuel Venable

Active Member

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Messages: 163

Concerning the stability of Xorg it is alive and well compared to a lot of WM's and DE's that rely on it. KDE in specific could use a lot of work still. It may look nice, but there are far too many issues you can run into just trying to customize with random themes you download could make your system glitchy and in some ways less usable. That is an entire different discussion on it's own. The only point I'm making is that xorg is more stable than a lot of things that are more actively developed.

I've never liked wayland personally. Which means i should've probably stayed away from this topic initially.
 

Abraham79

Member

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No remote desktop software am aware of works in wayland sessions. But, wonder if Gnome-3.38 will work with wayland in FreeBSD? Presently, it boots with X.
 

kpedersen

Son of Beastie

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@ zoujiaqing, Can you go to the following Linux stats and report to the rest of the class what percentage of the ~5000 users use Wayland?

https://linux-hardware.org/index.php?view=os_display_server

And now, can you suggest why Wayland should be a priority for FreeBSD with such a small Wayland userbase even on Linux?

The future of Wayland will basically be XWayland so it looks like FreeBSD needs to do nothing at all to remain compatible.

Besides FreeBSD already has Wayland: https://www.freshports.org/graphics/wayland
It isn't our fault it is useless and you can't do anything interesting with it. It is just a protocol after all. Anything useful is "out of scope of the Wayland project". Have fun.
 

sidetone

Daemon

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From what I get from it, Wayland isn't abandon-ware, but it has similarities to projects that take the path towards it.
 

George

Aspiring Daemon

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The key to a successful Wayland session is to only open one window per workspace. And use custom hotkeys.
I am pretty happy with wayland/hikari.
 

Beastie7

Aspiring Daemon

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Without a proper transition plan for all applications, DEs, WMs, etc Wayland will continue to be a shiny brick. It boggles my mind why the Linux community didn’t standardize around Weston as a base reference, like with xserver. Besides performance, what exactly is wrong with X.org? I keep hearing it’s a “security nightmare”, but haven’t found a detailed explanation as to why that is..

Why not just fix the damn thing?
 
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