Does Desktop have a future on BSD?

mickey

Aspiring Daemon

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MTP? I only see geeks wanting their phones to be connected to their computers, that's not an opener for the desktop. But as "MTP" is named here…: I wouldn't claim any OS to support MTP, but Google to activate mass storage via USB again (what was their interest to pay their developers for disabling it since Android 5? before it was present…)
Geeks don't use MTP and USB cables, they rather use sshfs, sftp or other means to access it wirelessly. MTP is what normal users would use for the quite common case of transferring a bunch of photos to their desktop, or uploading some new music to their devices. There is nothing geek-ish at all about that. Mass storage, as in access your phone like it was a harddrive or USB flash drive, is an entirely different matter, has nothing to do with MTP and afaik support for that has ceased in newer android versions.
 

mark_j

Aspiring Daemon

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I did. For example I've sent bug report about acpi hotkeys to the `freebsd-acpi` mailing list.
And I get response. Person suggest me to prepare script...

Anyway do you really guess freebsd team dunno about acpi issues or WiFi issues or sound output issues? Of course they know. Just looks like desktop (or laptop, ok) is not their primary goal. I saw some roadmaps about improving WiFi stack and audio driver. So team know about everything. Maybe lack of resources. I don't know.
Lack of resources, of course. Simply put though, if a bug report is not filed and a plethora of people don't add to it "me too" then wouldn't you expect developers won't see it as important.
"do you really guess" is exactly the problem; you're guessing. Nothing will change if you 'guess' they know ahout it.
 

jmos

Active Member

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Geeks don't use MTP and USB cables, they rather use sshfs, sftp or other means to access it wirelessly.

Done that. But am I willing in the future to give that uncontrollable thing access to my sensible ssh logins? Or the way around: Am I willing to set that uncontrollable thing up to be a server?

With "geeks" I meant the persons one level over the average desktop user (sorry); According to my observation they don't think about SSH, instead in first case they're looking for the onboard-way - and not for building up new ones.

And yes, MTP can do other stuff. But that doesn't mean you couldn't exchange the same data with simple files transfers. But my argument was not "what geeks do", but what the dekstop user (the topic of the thread!) does not ;)
 

Mjölnir

Daemon

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T460 is not a desktop.
That's fastidious? A laptop usually runs a desktop. Today's desktop PCs are mostly these very small miniNUC thangs: these often have low-power mobile technology built-in, so they're just very much like laptops.
 

Trihexagonal

Daemon

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BSD is not a"toy"...........this forum isn't "toy" either.....
Stop being annoyed. It's really easy just drop into this forum, say bad things about BSD and run away...
good luck, pal!
It makes a great toy, too, diego. Once you've bent it to your will and made it your toy. This is mine.
But you're right. And he should run.

Run! Run!
Fast as you can!
Before you end up
In Beasties frying pan!

my_toy.png


I don't want to write driver for acpi which works bad (acpi hotkeys don't work, crashing on cover closing, etc).
I don't want to pin my audio devices to get just internal microphone and headphones jack work. It's nightmare.
*snip*
Do not misunderstand me. I like freebsd as I said before. I have to use Debian on on laptop because... Because it just works. Despite of strange systemD and awful pulse audio which I hate.

Sorry for the excessive emotionality.
I'll give credit where credit's due.

Your statement about closing the lid and it crashing might be true on your box, but it wasn't on mine. It was sitting open running when it went sailing 6 feet in the air and landed top down closed.

I picked myself and it up, opened it up and it was still running like it never happened. Me too, so we just went about our business.

That image above is of my dearly departed dedicated Thinkpad X61 .mp3 player at 306 days uptime. I have a W520 serving in that capacity now. Do you think I'd be using them as .mp3 players if I didn't get good sound from them?

I either use a pair of Koss KTXPRO1 Titanium lightweight headphones, like the ones I'm using now to listen to The The - Sweet Bird of Truth with now on this W520, or run a patch cord from the headphone outlet into my Pioneer SA-520 and listen to it through my stereo speakers.

It's only 5:55am here so I'll let the rest of the building sleep another 5 minutes. ;)
 

Trihexagonal

Daemon

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Geeks don't use MTP and USB cables, they rather use sshfs, sftp or other means to access it wirelessly. MTP is what normal users would use for the quite common case of transferring a bunch of photos to their desktop, or uploading some new music to their devices. There is nothing geek-ish at all about that.
I've never used ssh and have no need since all my computers are within reach. I've always used USB sticks for storage and transfer.

I'm not your average geek though.
 

aragats

Daemon

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am I willing in the future to give that uncontrollable thing access to my sensible ssh logins? Or the way around: Am I willing to set that uncontrollable thing up to be a server?
Only when I need I launch Termux in my smartphone, start sshd and rsync or scp stuff with/to my FreeBSD box, then press Ctrl-D to quit Termux. Very simple and straight forward.
What can go wrong with that?
 

Trihexagonal

Daemon

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Until you mentioned it I had never heard of sysutils/fusefs-sshfs and had to look it up on About FreBSD Ports.

According to the description given:

SSHFS allows you to mount a remote directory over a normal ssh connection.

I have never used ssh once in 16 years of using FreeBSD, since starting with PC-BSD in 2005, or before that. Not that I don't know how to use it, I have no need for remote access to my computers.

They are all within about 30 feet of each other at any time and may all be running at once. When I finish a new build I populate each machine with relevant files saved to the same USB sticks from the last build of all machines, and all machines act as a back-up to those files. If one goes down the worst that can happen is I lose files from the last few days on that machine.

I've used ftp many times to upload files for my websites but prefer to log into the web interface so I can get the big picture.
 

Trihexagonal

Daemon

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My truth is always stranger than fiction. I may tell a tall tale now and then but I never lie.

My math isn't too good though. Once I got to thinking about it I didn't start using PC-BSD till 2005 and that was only 16 years ago.

I started using Linux sometime around 2002 and have a screenshot in the UNIX forum at dslreports.com from 2002 as Spamzilla.
 

shkhln

Daemon

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That's fastidious? A laptop usually runs a desktop. Today's desktop PCs are mostly these very small miniNUC thangs: these often have low-power mobile technology built-in, so they're just very much like laptops.
Not really, the key distinction there is that desktop is stationary, thus you don't have to bother with sleep mode, touchpad drivers and built-in wi-fi (AP in a bridge mode, anyone?). That applies even to crappy all-in-one PCs.
 

Mjölnir

Daemon

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Not really, the key distinction there is that desktop is stationary, thus don't have to bother with sleep mode,
??? Why not? Many desktop users would prefer that (+hibernation after some timeout) to poweroff(8)+boot(8). Simply 'cause it's much faster.
touchpad drivers
No. Even worse: touchscreen stuff...
and built-in wi-fi (AP in a bridge mode, anyone?).
Desktop PCs start to do wireless networking. It's more convenient @SOHO, for it reduces that chaos cable gordic knot under the desk.
That applies even to crappy all-in-one PCs.
Exactly.
 

Trihexagonal

Daemon

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I don't play April fool jokes, don't take Holiday or weekends off. I can't, I'm committed... I'm pox.

Prestigious pronoun prestidigitator Pronunciation Palatine Premiere perused poor paraphrased parodied people's previously pampered paradigm professionally paralyzed perpetually per purposely posing paradoxical perplexity permanently purely pleasuring perspicuous phantom Priests passionately pondering profusely proficient Pontification Pharaoh's phenomenally panther perfect performance, personably pausing, phrase phenom pox plucked precious Priestess Princess Poppy pretty poppies, personalizing picked posies, politely presented personally pleasantly.
 

vigole

Daemon

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According to Andrew Tanenbaum:

Wireless ... Mobile ... Typical applications
No ......... No ....... Desktop computers in offices
No ......... Yes ...... A notebook computer used in a hotel room
Yes ........ No ....... Networks in unwired buildings
Yes ........ Yes ...... Store inventory with a handheld computer


P.S. I don't use Wireless and/or Mobile, unless I have to. e.g. LTE/MODEM and 2FA. Although I use laptop as it's a desktop, i.e. it has a fixed position, I'm using LAN for connection, and I don't move it,
but as shkhln said, still it's not stationary.

But Mjölnir has a good point. To me, the line between desktop and laptop is very vague. Definitions are not very clear.
It's similar to the difference between CLI and TUI, or MCU and PLC.
 

Mjölnir

Daemon

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Because it doesn't work for you? All I'm saying is that those complaints have viable workarounds for the desktop case.
I do use it (sleep/suspend, then hibernate after 15min) a lot; it does work somehow:
uptime 10:18nachm. up 2 days, 4:03, 5 users, load averages: 0,67 0,60 0,64, but not flawlessly. I.e. you can see from that uptime when I wanted to play some song loud via my stereo. No sound output on external line-out after resume -> reboot(8). Bluetooth doesn't work, I have no driver for 811.2ac 802.11ac nor n: from iwm(4):
Code:
     Currently, iwm only supports 802.11b and 802.11g modes.  It will not
     associate to access points that are configured to operate only in 802.11n
     or 802.11ac modes.
. There just are no workarounds. All that doesn't hold me back from using the BeaSD as the only OS on my laptop, but I would even be more pleased if all these flaws would just work OOTB.
 

grahamperrin

Well-Known Member

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… sailing 6 feet in the air and landed top down closed. …

My previous HP EliteBook 8570p was thrown from a first floor window. Along with (don't laugh) a peace lily, and various other items. Ahem.

I probably kept the hard disk drive – if I recall correctly, the S.M.A.R.T. status didn't indicate a problem – but I never felt an urgent need to attempt reuse of the data.



Back on topic: yes, desktop has a future on BSD.
 

vigole

Daemon

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Along with (don't laugh) a peace lily,
Poor lily. BTW, for some screwball of unknown origin, I have a nickname for Linux: "LiLi". I'm loud, and dropping this nickname here and there. A while back, some self-designated warrior called me on that, and said, 'our COM3munity is better than that'.

But as I'm all about COM1 and conflict of IRQs, I'll continue to call it "LiLi". Now I have more motivations to do so. Refer to next paragraph, i.e. "Back on topic":

Back on topic:
507 days, an old topic, but since then I've made some improvements. I extend the use of BSD Desktop -- quote, unquote -- from FreeBSD to the OpenBSD; and hopefully NetBSD very soon.
 
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