Delay in FreeBSD 14.0 release schedule

Re: [UPDATE] FreeBSD 14.0-BETA3 Now Available
Code: 
I tried upgrading from 13.2 to BETA4 and it seems that the issue is still
there. Is there going to be another BETA?
Re: [UPDATE] FreeBSD 14.0-BETA3 Now Available
Code: 
Yes, there will at least be BETA5.
Re: [UPDATE] FreeBSD 14.0-BETA3 Now Available
Code: 
The fix is needed in freebsd-update in 13.2. You can wait for the
upcoming EN and update 13.2, or if you want to try immediately you can
fetch an updated freebsd-update as described in
https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=273661#c12
 
Charlie_ said:
Code: 
The fix is needed in freebsd-update in 13.2. You can wait for the
upcoming EN and update 13.2, or if you want to try immediately you can
fetch an updated freebsd-update as described in
https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=273661#c12
Click to expand...

EDIT: fixed by extracting base zip from BETA5 memstick over my installation.

What to do if I am already on 14.0-BETA5 and receive the following error (after coping the new file structure from /usr/src) duirng make buildworld:
Code: 
--------------------------------------------------------------
>>> stage 1.2: bootstrap tools
--------------------------------------------------------------
cd /src; time env INSTALL="sh /src/tools/install.sh"  TOOLS_PREFIX=/usr/obj/src/amd64.amd64/tmp  PATH=/usr/obj/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/legacy/usr/sbin:/usr/obj/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/legacy/usr/bin:/usr/obj/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/legacy/bin:/usr/obj/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/legacy/usr/libexec:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin  WORLDTMP=/usr/obj/src/amd64.amd64/tmp  MAKEFLAGS="-m /src/tools/build/mk  -m /src/share/mk" make  -f Makefile.inc1  DESTDIR=  OBJTOP='/usr/obj/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/obj-tools'  OBJROOT='${OBJTOP}/'  UNIVERSE_TOOLCHAIN_PATH=  MAKEOBJDIRPREFIX=  BOOTSTRAPPING=1400097  BWPHASE=bootstrap-tools  -DNO_CPU_CFLAGS  -DNO_LINT  -DNO_PIC  -DNO_SHARED  MK_ASAN=no  MK_CTF=no  MK_CLANG_EXTRAS=no  MK_CLANG_FORMAT=no  MK_CLANG_FULL=no  MK_HTML=no  MK_MAN=no  MK_PROFILE=no  MK_RETPOLINE=no  MK_SSP=no  MK_TESTS=no  MK_UBSAN=no  MK_WERROR=no  MK_INCLUDES=yes  MK_MAN_UTILS=yes MK_LLVM_TARGET_ALL=no bootstrap-tools
===> lib/clang/libllvmminimal (obj,all,install)
[Creating objdir /usr/obj/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/obj-tools/lib/clang/libllvmminimal...]
[Creating nested objdir /usr/obj/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/obj-tools/lib/clang/libllvmminimal/Demangle...]
[Creating nested objdir /usr/obj/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/obj-tools/lib/clang/libllvmminimal/Support...]
[Creating nested objdir /usr/obj/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/obj-tools/lib/clang/libllvmminimal/TableGen...]
c++  -O2 -pipe -fno-common -I/src/lib/clang/include -I/src/contrib/llvm-project/llvm/include -D__STDC_CONSTANT_MACROS -D__STDC_FORMAT_MACROS -D__STDC_LIMIT_MACROS -DHAVE_VCS_VERSION_INC -DLLVM_DEFAULT_TARGET_TRIPLE=\"x86_64-unknown-freebsd15.0\" -DLLVM_HOST_TRIPLE=\"x86_64-unknown-freebsd15.0\" -DDEFAULT_SYSROOT=\"/usr/obj/src/amd64.amd64/tmp\" -DLLVM_TARGET_ENABLE_X86 -DLLVM_NATIVE_ASMPARSER=LLVMInitializeX86AsmParser -DLLVM_NATIVE_ASMPRINTER=LLVMInitializeX86AsmPrinter -DLLVM_NATIVE_DISASSEMBLER=LLVMInitializeX86Disassembler -DLLVM_NATIVE_TARGET=LLVMInitializeX86Target -DLLVM_NATIVE_TARGETINFO=LLVMInitializeX86TargetInfo -DLLVM_NATIVE_TARGETMC=LLVMInitializeX86TargetMC -ffunction-sections -fdata-sections -gline-tables-only -MD -MF.depend.Demangle_ItaniumDemangle.o -MTDemangle/ItaniumDemangle.o -Wno-format-zero-length -Wdate-time -Wno-empty-body -Wno-string-plus-int -Wno-unused-const-variable -Wno-error=unused-but-set-parameter -Wno-tautological-compare -Wno-unused-value -Wno-parentheses-equality -Wno-unused-function -Wno-enum-conversion -Wno-unused-local-typedef -Wno-address-of-packed-member -Wno-switch -Wno-switch-enum -Wno-knr-promoted-parameter -Wno-parentheses -Qunused-arguments -I/usr/obj/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/legacy/usr/include  -fno-exceptions -fno-rtti -gline-tables-only -std=c++17    -stdlib=libc++ -Wno-c++11-extensions    -c /src/contrib/llvm-project/llvm/lib/Demangle/ItaniumDemangle.cpp -o Demangle/ItaniumDemangle.o
In file included from /src/contrib/llvm-project/llvm/lib/Demangle/ItaniumDemangle.cpp:13:
/src/contrib/llvm-project/llvm/include/llvm/Demangle/Demangle.h:13:10: fatal error: 'string' file not found
#include <string>
         ^~~~~~~~
1 error generated.
*** Error code 1

Stop.
make[3]: stopped in /src/lib/clang/libllvmminimal
*** Error code 1

Stop.
make[2]: stopped in /src
        1.01 real         0.72 user         0.18 sys
*** Error code 1

Stop.
make[1]: stopped in /src
*** Error code 1

Stop.
make: stopped in /src
root@elawfreebsdo:/src # freebsd-version -kru
14.0-BETA5
14.0-BETA5
14.0-BETA5
root@elawfreebsdo:/src #
 
elgrande said:
EDIT: fixed by extracting base zip from BETA5 memstick over my installation.

What to do if I am already on 14.0-BETA5 and receive the following error (after coping the new file structure from /usr/src) duirng make buildworld:
Code: 
--------------------------------------------------------------
>>> stage 1.2: bootstrap tools
--------------------------------------------------------------
cd /src; time env INSTALL="sh /src/tools/install.sh"  TOOLS_PREFIX=/usr/obj/src/amd64.amd64/tmp  PATH=/usr/obj/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/legacy/usr/sbin:/usr/obj/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/legacy/usr/bin:/usr/obj/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/legacy/bin:/usr/obj/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/legacy/usr/libexec:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin  WORLDTMP=/usr/obj/src/amd64.amd64/tmp  MAKEFLAGS="-m /src/tools/build/mk  -m /src/share/mk" make  -f Makefile.inc1  DESTDIR=  OBJTOP='/usr/obj/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/obj-tools'  OBJROOT='${OBJTOP}/'  UNIVERSE_TOOLCHAIN_PATH=  MAKEOBJDIRPREFIX=  BOOTSTRAPPING=1400097  BWPHASE=bootstrap-tools  -DNO_CPU_CFLAGS  -DNO_LINT  -DNO_PIC  -DNO_SHARED  MK_ASAN=no  MK_CTF=no  MK_CLANG_EXTRAS=no  MK_CLANG_FORMAT=no  MK_CLANG_FULL=no  MK_HTML=no  MK_MAN=no  MK_PROFILE=no  MK_RETPOLINE=no  MK_SSP=no  MK_TESTS=no  MK_UBSAN=no  MK_WERROR=no  MK_INCLUDES=yes  MK_MAN_UTILS=yes MK_LLVM_TARGET_ALL=no bootstrap-tools
===> lib/clang/libllvmminimal (obj,all,install)
[Creating objdir /usr/obj/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/obj-tools/lib/clang/libllvmminimal...]
[Creating nested objdir /usr/obj/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/obj-tools/lib/clang/libllvmminimal/Demangle...]
[Creating nested objdir /usr/obj/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/obj-tools/lib/clang/libllvmminimal/Support...]
[Creating nested objdir /usr/obj/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/obj-tools/lib/clang/libllvmminimal/TableGen...]
c++  -O2 -pipe -fno-common -I/src/lib/clang/include -I/src/contrib/llvm-project/llvm/include -D__STDC_CONSTANT_MACROS -D__STDC_FORMAT_MACROS -D__STDC_LIMIT_MACROS -DHAVE_VCS_VERSION_INC -DLLVM_DEFAULT_TARGET_TRIPLE=\"x86_64-unknown-freebsd15.0\" -DLLVM_HOST_TRIPLE=\"x86_64-unknown-freebsd15.0\" -DDEFAULT_SYSROOT=\"/usr/obj/src/amd64.amd64/tmp\" -DLLVM_TARGET_ENABLE_X86 -DLLVM_NATIVE_ASMPARSER=LLVMInitializeX86AsmParser -DLLVM_NATIVE_ASMPRINTER=LLVMInitializeX86AsmPrinter -DLLVM_NATIVE_DISASSEMBLER=LLVMInitializeX86Disassembler -DLLVM_NATIVE_TARGET=LLVMInitializeX86Target -DLLVM_NATIVE_TARGETINFO=LLVMInitializeX86TargetInfo -DLLVM_NATIVE_TARGETMC=LLVMInitializeX86TargetMC -ffunction-sections -fdata-sections -gline-tables-only -MD -MF.depend.Demangle_ItaniumDemangle.o -MTDemangle/ItaniumDemangle.o -Wno-format-zero-length -Wdate-time -Wno-empty-body -Wno-string-plus-int -Wno-unused-const-variable -Wno-error=unused-but-set-parameter -Wno-tautological-compare -Wno-unused-value -Wno-parentheses-equality -Wno-unused-function -Wno-enum-conversion -Wno-unused-local-typedef -Wno-address-of-packed-member -Wno-switch -Wno-switch-enum -Wno-knr-promoted-parameter -Wno-parentheses -Qunused-arguments -I/usr/obj/src/amd64.amd64/tmp/legacy/usr/include  -fno-exceptions -fno-rtti -gline-tables-only -std=c++17    -stdlib=libc++ -Wno-c++11-extensions    -c /src/contrib/llvm-project/llvm/lib/Demangle/ItaniumDemangle.cpp -o Demangle/ItaniumDemangle.o
In file included from /src/contrib/llvm-project/llvm/lib/Demangle/ItaniumDemangle.cpp:13:
/src/contrib/llvm-project/llvm/include/llvm/Demangle/Demangle.h:13:10: fatal error: 'string' file not found
#include <string>
         ^~~~~~~~
1 error generated.
*** Error code 1

Stop.
make[3]: stopped in /src/lib/clang/libllvmminimal
*** Error code 1

Stop.
make[2]: stopped in /src
        1.01 real         0.72 user         0.18 sys
*** Error code 1

Stop.
make[1]: stopped in /src
*** Error code 1

Stop.
make: stopped in /src
root@elawfreebsdo:/src # freebsd-version -kru
14.0-BETA5
14.0-BETA5
14.0-BETA5
root@elawfreebsdo:/src #
Click to expand...
make that line say
#include <string.h>

that might fix it. or regrab sources
 
zirias@ said:
larsf that's correct. Well, almost, it would be simpler not to have any ssl libs in /usr/local at all, but the issue would remain, this can't work unless you have a libsasl2 there linking against the new OpenSSL version. And IMHO it's a horrible ugly hack allowing base sendmail to link libs from ports at all. It's a circular dependency and upgrade issues like this will be unavoidable.

I still think the only sane way would be to drop sendmail from base, a tiny and simple MTA like dma certainly is enough to make base itself work. Using sendmail from ports, there won't be any such issues.
Click to expand...

Plus, IMO if a person wants sendmail+sasl, build and install mail/sendmail. Keep src simple, avoid external factors that may result in build failure resulting in concluding a src problem when it's a port. Remember, if you upgrade and install your src frequently, *and* you upgrade and install your ports frequently as well, a change in one may result in the wrong conclusion.

Think of it this way. If you're on a race car team and you make a number of changes to the configuration of the car, and the car goes faster, which change was responsible. Or if the car goes slower, why? Now you need to back out of all the changes and apply them one by one to discover which one made the difference. Or if there was a compounding, which change had the greatest effect.

Similarly in software development. Same concept applies.

Same concept applies to system administration.
 
The "delay" now with RELEASE-14 is just a déjà vu from what we have seen from RELEASE-12.

We now could discuss what could have been learned and if that is better or worse than before. For years and many releases it was demanded that FreeBSD should free itself from third party contributions in base. Even loud voices could be heard for replacing Sendmail. Nothing happened. Maybe it needs some other personnel at the decision level.

From a minimalist point of view we should have not more in base than being able to bootstrap the latest pkg package, while all other needed things come from the repository. It could be discussed if for such an initial bootstrap a fully fletched TLS is necessary (with all the unnecessary certs). A minimalist library for bootstrapping pkg could just do that.
 
getopt said:
The "delay" now with RELEASE-14 is just a déjà vu from what we have seen from RELEASE-12.

We now could discuss what could have been learned and if that is better or worse than before. For years and many releases it was demanded that FreeBSD should free itself from third party contributions in base. Even loud voices could be heard for replacing Sendmail. Nothing happened. Maybe it needs some other personnel at the decision level.

From a minimalist point of view we should have not more in base than being able to bootstrap the latest pkg package, while all other needed things come from the repository. It could be discussed if for such an initial bootstrap a fully fletched TLS is necessary (with all the unnecessary certs). A minimalist library for bootstrapping pkg could just do that.
Click to expand...
Why do so many have an issue with the glorious and exceptional sendmail?
 
LibreQuest said:
Why do so many have an issue with the glorious and exceptional sendmail?
Click to expand...
I think the better question to ask is why some people are being so annoyed about the delay of the 14.0 release. I'd rather have this delayed by another year than doing what most other players in the software industry do and rush something just because it needs to be released. Give the devs a break. Stuff takes time. Good stuff takes more time. Nobody is getting hurt by a delay in a release.
 
jbo said:
Stuff takes time. Good stuff takes more time.
Click to expand...
Completely agreed on. Good point. Time is needed for coping with things that makes troubles. My point is, we need less trouble in base, because all that is needed is a repository and a bootstrapped pkg instead.
 
getopt said:
because all that is needed is a repository and a bootstrapped pkg instead.
Click to expand...
I think (!) that would go against the philosophy of FreeBSD. The idea is to have a fully usable system after installation. This means stuff like firewall(s), DHCP, DNS, NTP, MTA, user management utilities, update utilities, text editor, .... And from a practical point of view that sort of requires TLS too.

My router at home is a bare FreeBSD installation. No packages installed. And I like that experience. It's minimal, but it's usable in practical real world scenarios.
 
jbo said:
Nobody is getting hurt by a delay in a release.
Click to expand...
yeah, marketers promise the moon to customers with money.
Customers with money get pissed that the moon is not delivered on time or at all - WTF was the money paid for?
Marketers get pissed at devs - "Why didn't you program the moon correctly on time? WTF are you even getting paid for?"
Devs get pissed at marketers - "You are paid to spread the word about how good the product is! Don't go around spreading lies about nonexistent features! What are YOU getting paid for?!?!?"
 
jbo said:
The idea is to have a fully usable system after installation.
Click to expand...
That could be achieved by asking during installation what should be installed from repository (or from installation media with a selection of "basic needed" pkgs). That would prevent endless discussion about what is a fully usable system.
 
jbo said:
That would require having working networking and access
Click to expand...
I edited my post while you were answering. To be more clear:

All what comes from src/vendors aka contributions could be added via pkg add from pkg-files that come with the installation media. The difference would be that it is possible to maintain these with pkg instead of having to do upgrades of the base (via freebsd-update or building from source).

So you can install such contributions during FreeBSD installation using packages even without having access to the Internet.
 
getopt said:
For years and many releases it was demanded that FreeBSD should free itself from third party contributions in base. Even loud voices could be heard for replacing Sendmail. Nothing happened
Click to expand...
Nothing happened? dma(8) got added to the base with 13, sendmail(8) was still enabled as default. With 14 dma(8) is set as default and sendmail is disabled (but still included with the base). I suspect sendmail will get removed from the base in 15.

You can't just rip out stuff people have relied on for many years.
 
LibreQuest said:
The Radeon RX 6400 is working nicely with the 14.0 RC1. So cool!
Click to expand...
I have a Ryzen 7 5600 desktop with a fresh install of FREEBSD 14.0-BETA3 and I'm experiencing system freezes and random crash.
I made the update to RC1 still the system is unstable with no progress.
GUI is Plasma5-X11+ sddm.
 
SirDice said:
Nothing happened? dma(8) got added to the base with 13, sendmail(8) was still enabled as default. With 14 dma(8) is set as default and sendmail is disabled (but still included with the base). I suspect sendmail will get removed from the base in 15.

You can't just rip out stuff people have relied on for many years.
Click to expand...
This is behaving like a professional. This is not showing disregard or even contempt for your users, unlike some other projects.
 
jbo said:
I think the better question to ask is why some people are being so annoyed about the delay of the 14.0 release.
Click to expand...
I still see nontrivial commits in the releng/14.0 branch. Seems strange.... I would have thought only critical bug fixes would be allowed once past the -ALPHA stage.

Code: 
$ git log 243550d32f4 -1
commit 243550d32f4231d4407cd57220d36e42153d97f0
Author: Glen Barber <gjb@FreeBSD.org>
Date:   Thu Oct 5 20:00:16 2023 -0400

    release: update releng/14.0 to BETA5

    Approved by:    re (implicit)
    Sponsored by:   GoFundMe https://www.gofundme.com/f/gjbbsd
    Sponsored by:   PayPal https://paypal.me/gjbbsd
$ git log --pretty=oneline 243550d32f4..releng/14.0|wc
      89     716    8276
 
tuxador said:
I have a Ryzen 7 5600 desktop with a fresh install of FREEBSD 14.0-BETA3 and I'm experiencing system freezes and random crash.
I made the update to RC1 still the system is unstable with no progress.
GUI is Plasma5-X11+ sddm.
Click to expand...
Is it stable if you don't enable X?
 
I don't know for you guys, but on my side (desktop + server home) everything is running fine, if newer packages version are needed I switch from quarterly to latest.
No particularly blocking bug or something like that, so no hurry (for me at least).
The other day I've read a sentence on internet that is more than appropriate for this situation "Do not rush the process, good things take time."
 
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