Sudo rant

VulcanRidr said:
developers saying "this is the way we make it, you will use it this way, and you will like it."
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Funny, but this describes pretty much every program ever written. The biggest problem I had with my wife using computers was "Yes dear, I know you want to do things this way, but the program wants you to do things that way".
Having knobs to tweak behavior does not override the basic premise of "how this program works".

The "like it" part is always debatable. Most of the time it comes down to "accept it"
 
MrBSD said:
Im using Void right now, and i can confirm. Its far from unfinished or broken. As you said, its a serious linux distribution. Using doas and runit is just pure pleasure.

Unfortunately, its still linux. And i have to use now instead of freebsd because i have AMD 9070 video card that requires drm-612-kmod. Ill probably have to wait several years before i can switch back to freebsd.

But yeah, Void is currently best distro imho.
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Another satisfied Void user here. If you have to do Linux, you can't do better.
 
Jose said:
Another satisfied Void user here. If you have to do Linux, you can't do better.
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Void could be a very good distro (vanilla packets, xbps, runit).
But it is a no-go for me due to their political extremism which has nothing to do here.
See their hostile position toward XLibre (censorship).
As for an open and agnostic de-systemd-ified distro I would look toward Artix or Devuan. None of both are perfect but alternatives are sparse/non-existant.
 
daridro said:
Void could be a very good distro (vanilla packets, xbps, runit).
But it is a no-go for me due to their political extremism which has nothing to do here.
See their hostile position toward XLibre (censorship).
As for an open and agnostic de-systemd-ified distro I would look toward Devuan.
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Im sorry, but i stay away from all the drama and politics. Also. Void is just a temporary home for me. As soon as issues with drm-komd are resoved, im back on freebsd.
 
daridro said:
But it is a no-go for me due to their political extremism which has nothing to do here.
See their hostile position toward XLibre
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Xlibre is highly political to start with, despite its claim saying it's not. Xlibre's founder made it political by using what cannot be mistaken for none other than a Trump theme. No software project meant for the general community should start with a theme of any highly controversial or polarized figure. No matter if anyone across any political spectrum is invited, it was still political.

Void could have just stated that they didn't like that it was political, and they chose not to use it. Censoring that was a mistake of them.
 
drhowarddrfine said:
I never let anyone's politics dictate what I will use or how I spend my money.
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I think that's the way business used to be (simply because a business prime directive is profit by legal means. Picking a political side means you don't want money from half the customers); a problem is when politics dictate what products are available.

XLibre for example. Discard any perceived or real political leanings of the project/contributors.
Is it there a benefit to having it available? My opinion yes because it is trying to keep "XFree86/Xorg" viable in today's environment. One can choose to use it or not, but for others to try to bury it because they "don't like the cut of his jib" is wrong and detracts from having the market decide the merits.
 
Alpine Linux is also working on Wayback, that will, in theory, allow you to run X stuff, including window managers, on Wayland. I've not really been keeping up with it as there's no need yet, but I think that they've got it working as well.

Wayback Hopes To Be Ready Next Year With Alpine Linux Planning To Use It By Default - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com www.phoronix.com
wayback for xorg alpine linux
There's several possibly more informative links--I just used the search terms

wayback for xorg alpine linux.

I've not paid a great deal of attention to it all right now, but what concerned me more than the guy's views are other, seemingly knowledgeable people, about the code. I know his theory is that "they" are trying to silence him for Wayland or whatever, but some of the complaints about his code didn't seem based on that. Let me be clear in stating that I am not knowledgeable enough to judge the complaints about code myself.
 
Code. Changes. Code review. Merges. Fun stuff.
Some people look at code review and merging as "I have the power to say no, just because word is misspelled".
Others look at the technical aspect of the change: Is it correct, does it fix the stated problem, does it introduce a new problem?
Then we have some that "we are trying to kill this bloodline, so we automatically say no.

The question (at least for me) becomes "they said no to merging, but why?" Someone can be a subject matter expert and still reject a change for personal/political/corporate reasons.

That all goes back to me thinking "let it happen". Let the fork see daylight, let people contribute, let people use. The more exposure it gets, if it's a piece of crap, the sooner people will drop it.
The flip side is the more exposure it gets may actually prove viability, which actually exposes the reason for initial rejections.
 
daridro said:
Void could be a very good distro (vanilla packets, xbps, runit).
But it is a no-go for me due to their political extremism which has nothing to do here.
See their hostile position toward XLibre (censorship).
As for an open and agnostic de-systemd-ified distro I would look toward Artix or Devuan. None of both are perfect but alternatives are sparse/non-existant.
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I agree with you about void's hostility toward XLibre being a show-stopper.

I generally run Devuan, because I ran Debian basically from 1999 until they pulled the Grand Switcheroo and rammed systemd (in a most ham-fisted transition) down our throats, at which point, I left linux for BSD.
 
I tried sudo once, when I was in college and learning on Debian. And while that was the standard thing for the class, I discovered that I don't like it.

It's freakin' twice the complexity of su!

Security and convenience are two sides of the same coin. And I don't mind having to type in the root password every time I need to edit loader.conf. It does need to be clunky - this keeps it safe from user errors. Even seasoned admins make mistakes, and I am of firm opinion that it shouldn't be too easy to wreck the system. Yeah, some automation is nice, but one needs to be able to slam on the brakes before it's too late.

Even before I switched to FreeBSD, I was never a fan of sudo... Sudo needs to stay a Japanese surname that people hear in animes. It has no place making a computer easy to mess up.
 
sidetone said:
Xlibre is highly political to start with, despite its claim saying it's not. Xlibre's founder made it political by using what cannot be mistaken for none other than a Trump theme. No software project meant for the general community should start with a theme of any highly controversial or polarized figure. No matter if anyone across any political spectrum is invited, it was still political.

Void could have just stated that they didn't like that it was political, and they chose not to use it. Censoring that was a mistake of them.
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What exactly did Void do?
 
sidetone said:
Their mods wished they could hide the existence of Xlibre from their userbase. I don't blame them for not wanting their userbase to go with a project with a stupid slogan.

lunduke.substack.com

Void Linux Devs Censoring XLibre Screenshots?

On the Void Linux subreddit, moderated by Void Linux developers, screenshots and discussion of XLibre are being censored.
lunduke.substack.com lunduke.substack.com
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I'm wondering if there's more to it than that. The rotary user that post screenshot in the video thumbnail mentions was deleted (seems like if they were helpful to be noteworthy they'd keep the account around).

It sounds odd that Void themselves would be against Xlibre and I'd need to see a mailing list or announcement of that claim. At least in Fedora's case, someone brought the code to the table and it was rejected in a proposal all with visible public discussion.
 
sidetone said:
Xlibre is highly political to start with, despite its claim saying it's not. Xlibre's founder made it political by using what cannot be mistaken for none other than a Trump theme. No software project meant for the general community should start with a theme of any highly controversial or polarized figure. No matter if anyone across any political spectrum is invited, it was still political.

Void could have just stated that they didn't like that it was political, and they chose not to use it. Censoring that was a mistake of them.
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I don't think XLibre will survive. The entire idea of a right-wing display server is ridiculous. I think it will die soon, and someone who isn't a barely disguised political activist will make another, better fork of Xorg. I mean listen to the XLibre guy. He sounds like Alex Jones with the ranting about the "shot heard around the world" and "big tech moles". I wouldn't be surprised if he was a flat-earther, given his views on vaccines. Read that email he sent. You will realize how much of a kook that guy is.
 
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Espionage724 said:
At least in Fedora's case, someone brought the code to the table and it was rejected in a proposal all with visible public discussion.
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Kevin Kofler proposed it, it was rejected, but he made XLibre available in his Copr:
The packages have Obsoletes/Provides set up, so enabling the Copr AUTOMATICALLY replaces the X.Org packages the next time you update. Hence, simply:

su -
dnf copr enable kkofler/xlibre-xserver
dnf upgrade

should be sufficient to switch from X.Org to XLibre.
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I tested it in Fedora 42 in qemu, and it works just fine (with qemu Video set to VGA, but that's the same for qemu Gentoo XLibre, with Viideo set to Virtio, mouse cursor is 50% squashed vertically on both)
 
The political spoof is funny, 🍿 material. I'd watch to see if XLibre plays well with sudo. If it does, great, the world of Open Source will have another option for managing the graphics stack. I'd say that the important stuff is making sure that the damn software works, and works correctly. Then I wouldn't give a rat's ass about the political patterns poisoning the project. Because at some point, we gotta decide if the project is interesting for having high quality code or highly distasteful humor. Maybe shut up and type up the damn code and address bugs?
 
sidetone said:
It can make use of EXA for modern 2D graphics acceleration, which nothing else has.
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That sounds interesting! But I'm curious how that compares to FreeBSD. I used to force EAX for radeon in xorg.conf on Linux years ago; can that be done on FreeBSD today?

I'm also curious how Intel UXA and SNA might fit into that; but what about Intel DDX and modesetting? If modesetting does glamor, wouldn't Intel DDX use the 2D acceleration paths if available?
 
https://blog.netbsd.org/tnf/entry/x_org_on_netbsd_the but it's down right now.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40269680 is about that article, but it's a long discussion with a lot of it noise. If this information is there, it's difficult to find in it.

If NetBSD's improvements were going to be upstreamed, it would have been done. And why put permissive code in a place where more easily a GNU distribution will use, take credit for and not give back improvements? If they want it, let them find it on a BSD repository. People don't understand that they often don't want improvements there, as they like their project how it is with Linux bloat in it. They don't want it improved. It's why NetBSD's fork is about to make unrestricted improvements, bc it gives them room to do so without pushback. NetBSD's fork is so different than X, that it simply can't be dropped in anymore for FreeBSD. It would have to be ported separately.

They don't want NetBSD's X implementation discussed on Bugzilla. They want it discussed on the X mailing lists, however, they would have done it already, if they were going to do it. Secondly, NetBSD's is too different. And as I already wrote, that needs to be downloaded from a BSD site, not from a freedesktop site. It could be brought up on FreeBSD's mailing list, but Broadcom VideoCore drivers, some about NetBSD already having them, have been brought up a few times on there by different people, and no one hardly responds to them. They would probably shut that down, and say to use X's mailing list. I already stated why it's better off as a BSD project than an Xorg or freedesktop one.

Since the site is down, so I may have written the name wrong. No one has it except NetBSD. Linux might have it, but if so, it's not as good as NetBSD's.
 
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