Sudo rant

The political spoof is funny, 🍿 material. I'd watch to see if XLibre plays well with sudo. If it does, great, the world of Open Source will have another option for managing the graphics stack. I'd say that the important stuff is making sure that the damn software works, and works correctly. Then I wouldn't give a rat's ass about the political patterns poisoning the project. Because at some point, we gotta decide if the project is interesting for having high quality code or highly distasteful humor. Maybe shut up and type up the damn code and address bugs?
It's funny until it's not... I find it disturbing that people in tech are calling each other names and this kind of stuff might get people killed.

We must depolarize tech. Depolarization is different from depolitization. Everyone can have their politics but they should be irrelevant.

On both sides we see influencers profiting from this polarization and this has to stop.
 
It's funny until it's not... I find it disturbing that people in tech are calling each other names and this kind of stuff might get people killed.

We must depolarize tech. Depolarization is different from depolitization. Everyone can have their politics but they should be irrelevant.

On both sides we see influencers profiting from this polarization and this has to stop.
How true. Everything is polarized. Everything is political.

I want to use and hack FreeBSD without politics but politics always seems to enter it.

My wife and I have a community garden plot. All we want to do is plant and grow vegetables without politics. But politics enters even there. And, we're told by one person there that everything is political and that's why she pushes her agenda.

Like really?! Some of us have had enough! We just want to enjoy the very little peace we could possibly have rather than be bombarded with scatology each waking minute.

It's so sad and unfortunate that people feel the need to push their agenda when some of us simply want to hack code, grow vegetables or do other calming things without the heaviness or encumbrance of politics each waking moment. But here we are.

BTW, this is not the first place I've seen politics ruin things here at FreeBSD. It certainly won't be the last.
 
And, we're told by one person there that everything is political
I also hear this platitude everytime from tech geeks, who then proceed to take the Paradox of Tolerance out of context.

Karl Popper was despised by old-school leftists for dismissing Marxism, psychoanalysis & postmodernism as unfalsifiable non-sense. He'd likely dismiss intersectionality & the so-called critical theories too... If everything is political, nothing is.

I refuse to take sides. I don't need to. Both sides suck.
 
I also hear this platitude everytime from tech geeks, who then proceed to take the Paradox of Tolerance out of context.

This was not voiced by a tech geek. This was voiced by a person employed by the community association. She is our interface between our community garden group (which my wife is on the board) and city hall. It's not just geeks but people of all stripes.

Karl Popper was despised by old-school leftists for dismissing Marxism, psychoanalysis & postmodernism as unfalsifiable non-sense. He'd likely dismiss intersectionality & the so-called critical theories too... If everything is political, nothing is.

I refuse to take sides. I don't need to. Both sides suck.

You have the right-wing in the US. The left-wing here. They're both making a mess of things. Then again, things were in a mess before. Just now it's an intolerable mess exacerbated by agendas, none of which address the serious problems at hand and only serve to make things worse.
 
A fair assessment. We do have the 'off-topic' forum, but it's easier to latch onto an existing conversation (and hijack it) that to put in the effort needed to start a new thread. And if enforcement of Forums Rules had any teeth, that would drive a lot of people away.

Like, if you don't have anything to add to the 'KDE Wayland on FreeBSD' threads, no point posting to them, since getting off-topic is not exactly welcome.

However, this thread is aleady in the 'Off-Topic' section of the Forums, cy@ ...
 
This was not voiced by a tech geek. This was voiced by a person employed by the community association. She is our interface between our community garden group (which my wife is on the board) and city hall. It's not just geeks but people of all stripes.
The problem with tech geeks, specially computer nerds, is that we have an opinion on just about everything: anthropology, psychology, quantum physics and also politics.

You have the right-wing in the US. The left-wing here. They're both making a mess of things. Then again, things were in a mess before. Just now it's an intolerable mess exacerbated by agendas, none of which address the serious problems at hand and only serve to make things worse.
My parents escaped the largest right-wing dictatorship in Europe, that of Portugal's Salazar, and we all escaped the left-wing dictatorship of Maduro in Venezuela. So my whole life has been dictated by external political forces. I had to make sense of what this "socialism of the 21st century" was all about so I had to read the original sources and then some more. In the end it's all boring stuff and a huge waste of time, but it has allowed me to figure out who gets their political information from Wikipedia, which shows they're lazy - we all are.

That said, the political pendulum is very much a thing and it's clearly moving to the right, and this kind of movements last at least a whole generation. So at least 15 or 20 years.

Anyway, enough of political rants.
 
Is it fair to imply someone has a political stance/agenda, either personal or around the project, if the only hint you have is them using a twist on a Trumps motto, a motto which has become meme from day 1, and has been bent around for usage by everyone since then? Even if I were completely on the opposite side of politics, I couldn't see this usage as anything else than bad taste maybe. Furthermore in HISTORY.md of the XLibre project just a sentence before the maga reference the author outlines his liberal views about not being judgmental or bigot.

A lot of important open source figures have had controversial political opinions. If we had the mindset of today FOSS would be smaller for a number of highly important projects, because these people would be cancelled when someone would stumble on their blog. These views were out in the open, and the authors behind them regularly had to defend them in discussions (or better said flame wars). I won't mention names, there's a person in Linux that defended gun rights vigorously after every school shooting and there was a person in BSD that defended each and every intervention/regime change. Imagine there is someone working on your project and 'your' alliance is bombing his country.

Well in XLibre case I see nothing of the like, just a pun, and a very blown-up story around it.
Unless there is more to it.
 
A lot of important open source figures have had controversial political opinions. If we had the mindset of today FOSS would be smaller for a number of highly important projects, because these people would be cancelled when someone would stumble on their blog. These views were out in the open, and the authors behind them regularly had to defend them in discussions (or better said flame wars). I won't mention names, there's a person in Linux that defended gun rights vigorously after every school shooting and there was a person in BSD that defended each and every intervention/regime change. Imagine there is someone working on your project and 'your' alliance is bombing his country.
And we'll get used to people having different opinions like in the good ol' days... Btw, I know quite a lot of people that would cheer if Trump gets rid of Maduro but there's also a high chance to fuck up, badly. He's risking a new-wave a left-wing anti-Americanism that would otherwise dry up. I saw it myself when Bush Sr. invaded Panamá, where I also lived for almost 2 years.
 
Personally, I don't give 2 eF's about politics nor politicians, up, down, right, left nor middle – I just don't believe in any of that 💩.
But, I do love mockery and puns, so I'm having real struggle with myself (because I know that it will be misunderstood and that folks who buy into this on both ends could be offended) not to sign every post with:

Thank you for your attention to this matter!
vmisev, GREAT LEADER OF A WORLD OF MY OWN AND SUPERUSER OF MY BOXEN.

🤭
 
I think that computing-related politics are OK to an extent. Like the "Cathedral and Bazaar" paper tried to explain the model of software availability and options people have for what software they can install on their metal. It was an interesting read 20+ years ago. Back then, there was plenty of outrageous stuff going on in DC, and plenty of people around the globe were unhappy with the leadership of their countries. But it all felt so separate from computing and Internet, which were an escape of sorts.

Yeah, Open Source gave rise to many different models of development, some popular, some not. Some of those models/patterns produced results, some did not, and projects folded. Having a distaste for how a specific project is organized is normal, every project has pitfalls and benefits. Trying to enforce rules of the project workflow is also normal. Pointing to technical benefits of following the project's workflow is also normal.

I guess what gets my blood boiling is the extent to which people don't bother to police themselves - it's this "If you're not with us, you're against us" mentality over things like ZFS (Linux camp seems just awfully divided over it due to licensing), off-the-cuff remarks that try to do appeal to emotion rather than logic, and more. Yeah, those patterns do reflect a bit of what's happening offline. To me, what's annoying is the attempts to glorify the awful off-line behavior that I'm trying to escape from by diving into computing. Glorifying left-wing, right-wing offline behavior, not bothering to police themselves enough to focus on actually producing quality code - I do wish there was less of that.
 
We do have the 'off-topic' forum, but it's easier to latch onto an existing conversation (and hijack it) that to put in the effort needed to start a new thread.
That's true. I have been guilty of that in the past myself, except I kept to the topic of the thread. Other times, a thread will have a theme, and they post that they want a different theme, so I'll suggest for them to start a new thread. They don't. Then, the second time, I'll start a new thread on it, even though, it would be better off for someone else to, because the software theme is more natural to them. It does take effort and a little more planning to start a new thread. Some may not get attention, as an existing thread.

It doesn't make sense for me to start a new thread on something I don't care for.
My parents escaped the largest right-wing dictatorship in Europe, that of Portugal's Salazar, and we all escaped the left-wing dictatorship of Maduro in Venezuela.
I saw it myself when Bush Sr. invaded Panamá, where I also lived for almost 2 years.
It's like you're everywhere something happens. These governments label themselves as left wing or right wing, but there's a common element which is unsatisfactory. I can appreciate how you see it.

That said, the political pendulum is very much a thing and it's clearly moving to the right, and this kind of movements last at least a whole generation. So at least 15 or 20 years.
I don't mind the pendulum swinging to some extent. There's some maga who disagree with Trump, and I agree with them on a few viewpoints. Not because they disagree with him, but bc their viewpoints are more inline with mine or even with a lot of others, and they otherwise would blindly go with Trump's viewpoints. It's kind of funny how they keep explaining that they don't agree with him, but make excuses for why he's doing it or don't address it. The extremism and the unwise provocations are irritating to me. I don't care for Maduro, but what is Trump doing. Unless he's the worst human rights offender in the world with the worst jails, he needs to stop stirring the pot.

One thing is this political movement is being rubbed in our faces, then they're the ones who say things are unfair.

Furthermore in HISTORY.md of the XLibre project just a sentence before the maga reference the author outlines his liberal views about not being judgmental or bigot.
A lot of people will go to Lowes or Home Depot, even though we don't agree with their political views, but they don't post those themes on their doors. When you walk in their doors, it's about customer value and service, not about highly politicized memes. I noticed that it's typically a liberal view to accept everyone, but it's not necessarily that. It looks more like, we're rubbing this motto in your face, and for those who disagree with it, you're welcome to join. It's also odd how it's highly political, then people say how it's unfair that their project was rejected. It's too in your face to claim that rejecting or trying to hide their project is unfair.

There's too much provocation to claim things are unfair for those projects. It's brought up on itself.

I wished that this would have stayed about sudo. It's odd that xlibre gets this much attention, but maybe those who like those memes need their 15 minutes to vent on what they like about it. I can't take that project seriously.
 
I wished that this would have stayed about sudo. It's odd that xlibre gets this much attention, but maybe those who like those memes need their 15 minutes to vent on what they like about it. I can't take that project seriously.
What I do care about is that X11 survives, get fixes and upgrades. ATM XLibre is only project that cares about that as well.

As for the security/sudo I like it, I don't find it to be complicated nor hard to configure.

I do understand that security/doas is simpler, but no one managed to present to me good enough reason to switch to it.

I don't even want to talk about sudo-rs.
 
If Xlibre is offensive, can one assume that LibreOffice is equally offensive?
pkg search "libre" shows lots of things.

So is libre offensive? plug "libre" into your favorite internet search engine you get a lot of things.

What I do care about is that X11 survives, get fixes and upgrades.
Kind of my opinion at the moment and I really don't care if others agree or disagree.
 
plug "libre" into your favorite internet search engine you get a lot of things.
I got this:
06052023_July_2_Cheers_PNW_Mag-Cuba_Libre-Cocktail_.webp

;)
 
LibreOffice is equally offensive?
LibreOffice doesn't have stupid overly polarized memes. The word "Libre" isn't the problem. Sure, Libre could imply Che Guevara, but LibreOffice didn't state that. Che isn't nearly as highly polarized as what's going on with this.
What I do care about is that X11 survives, get fixes and upgrades.
Yeah, but that isn't the answer.
vmisev said:
ATM XLibre is only project that cares about that as well.
NetBSD has a better X implementation.
 
And his general paranoid schizophrenic level of paranoia,
I don't care for such personal remarks.
not to mention his persecution complex.
He brought criticisms of that on himself. It's kind of evident. It's his stupid ways, mostly not him personally that's getting attacked.

It's kind of what I said, how they stake stupid positions, then act like someone is out to insult them. They took a stupid position and rubbed it in everyone's face by sticking their flag in the ground as far as they could. They go on the offensive, dig in, then act like they're the ones who got attacked.

This whole thing is, why don't you give his project a chance, when he did one of the most obnoxious things anyone could do. Then, think we have to go with it, as he's using our frustrations with having a lack of X choices, and wanting to avoid Wayland as leverage for it. That kind of irritates people.

As much as I dislike Wayland, I would use that before Xlibre. I'll stay with GNU influenced X for now.

The only good that can come of Xlibre as a whole, is making others realize they need a suitable X fork or to adopt NetBSD's X.
 
As far as I know, FreeBSD doesn't honor the persist option of doas, meaning you have to type the password every time. Alpine Linux does accept the persist keyword, which I find interesting. Opendoas doesn't seem to honor it either.
 
To be honest, I'm not a fan of doas, either... I believe that sudo/doas are just reinventing the wheel with no real technical merit. ZFS was a game changer, unlike any other filesystem. Ext2, ReiserFS, JFS, UFS - they were not different enough to completely change the game of OS installation. Same with sudo/doas, they are just not different enough to completely change the game of privilege elevation. Anything that sudo/doas do, that can be accomplished by group membership (wheel) and su... I don't care what anyone else says, I'm gonna use su on my metal. And it's OK if FreeBSD has the stuff in ports, having options is nice... 🤷‍♂️

sidetone : Did you know that Che Guevarra was a doctor, and Castro was a lawyer? And that Che was the emotional firebrand, while Castro was actually the level-headed guy who talked Che out of some ill-advised reactionary moves? You'd find all that and more if you read the Wikipedia entry on Che...
 
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