Let's start a new project : let's create a new mobile device powered by FreeBSD.

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Let's make a simple thing. I've started this post not to find people who wants to blame me everytime for a new reason or to find someone who wants to find a reason to be against this project and so little good starting ideas. I started this post to stimulate the conversation and to find some useful insight to start the project as a fun. I see that someone can't avoid to put the focus on me. And not only you put the focus on me, but you also use me to prove that I have something wrong, as well as to find reasons to don't participate. I don't think this is a nice attitude. At this point, since the purpose of talking about the project was to create a widespread sense of pleasure doing something cool within a group, but I see that this is not happening and since my goal was not to monetize using someone, we can also end this discussion here. Something is going wrong,but I don't understand what is it. If you think that my expectations is to create a working prototype,you are wrong. I've understood that it is hard. But it is also true that with the attitude that you are having,nothing than a fast (but good) occasionally help can take root here.
 
So what's the point here getopt? Do you think we have some brilliant idea here and nobody is able to see? 😁

No, seriously, having "nothing but an idea" is not always bad, but often enough. What we have here is a horrible combination:
  • just an idea, not even a vision (it doesn't tell me why I would ever want that)
  • no willingness whatsoever to invest own work upfront (no, "can help testing" doesn't count)
  • a rough plan where everyone with technical knowledge can see it will be very expensive
And no, "expensive" isn't necessarily/only about money, can mean time just as well.

Just think about one of these start-up pitches for convincing investors (that recently made it into TV shows as well). Go there with this idea. Do you think anyone would invest even a single cent? When you can't tell what problem your idea will solve, what it would do better than existing solutions, how it would compete in the market? And you can't show at least some existing work either? I don't think so.
 
getopt said:
astyle sure, but all crowds do have their limitations.

Actually the correct term is swarm intelligence. Sorry.
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Looks like you missed the point of the thread entirely... 😩

Expectations are what comes into play from get-go.

Intelligence (particularly crowd intelligence) comes into play later, as a conclusion about the individual/crowd. And yes, it's quite possible for the expectations to be misguided. But, expectations should not be confused with intelligence.

ziomario said:
If you think that my expectations is to create a working prototype,you are wrong. I've understood that it is hard. But it is also true that with the attitude that you have,nothing than a fast (but good) occasionally help can take root here.
Click to expand...
If OP finally understands that he is, in fact, supposed to produce a working prototype as a hard pre-requisite for convincing anyone - then this thread has accomplished its purpose.
 
astyle said:
Looks like you missed the point of the thread entirely... 😩

Expectations are what comes into play from get-go.

Intelligence (particularly crowd intelligence) comes into play later, as a conclusion about the individual/crowd. And yes, it's quite possible for the expectations to be misguided. But, expectations should not be confused with intelligence.


If OP finally understands that he is, in fact, supposed to produce a working prototype as a hard pre-requisite for convincing anyone - then this thread has accomplished its purpose.
Click to expand...

My name is not OP,is Mario. Anyway,as I have already told,a project,in my opinion,if it is really started because it is really done for fun,people starts to talking about it with a greater optimism and a greater propensity to give birth to prolific ideas. At this point, being able or not to complete it takes a back seat, because there is the awareness that the roots from which it starts are good and people are involved. And then,at a certain point, the group is "magically" rewarded because "it" believed in it. It can't work if you start right away thinking you won't make it to the end. If you think this, you definitely won't get there, actually you won't even start. No matter if you don't reach the end,if you enjoy what you are doing. Im talking only of fun,pure fun. I think that we should understand why,here,there is such kind of little desire to have fun together. I may think that the problem is to start thinking to port FreeBSD in a phone because a phone is perceived as one too complicated device. But I suspect that this bad attitude happens even if I propose another,less complicated device where to port FreeBSD. I suspect that your little desire to work together has more ancient cultural roots.
 
ziomario said:
My name is not OP,is Mario. Anyway,as I have already told,a project,in my opinion,if it is really started because it is really done for fun,people starts to talking about it with a greater optimism and a greater propensity to give birth to prolific ideas. At this point, being able or not to complete it takes a back seat, because there is the awareness that the roots from which it starts are good and people are involved. And then,at a certain point, the group is "magically" rewarded because "it" believed in it. It can't work if you start right away thinking you won't make it to the end. If you think this, you definitely won't get there, actually you won't even start. No matter if you don't reach the end,if you enjoy. I think that we should understand why,here,there is such kind of little desire to have fun together.
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OP is Internet shorthand for Opening Poster... Anyone here can figure that much out. I started quite a few threads on these Forums, I've been OP in those threads. In this thread, you're the OP...

There's no such thing as
ziomario said:
And then,at a certain point, the group is "magically" rewarded because "it" believed in it.
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There is such a thing as 'divide and conquer'. It means to divide the project up until you have a list of tasks you can actually accomplish. People on these Forums can help with brainstorming - but you have to ask them right. Know what the expectations are.

  • One starts a project because they know what to do. You admitted to not knowing what to do, not even how to get started.
  • One asks for help when they get stuck. There are good and bad ways to ask for help. Selling vague ideas on the basis of "It might be fun" is NOT a good way to ask for help.
  • One keeps going because it's fun. That comes last. And your pitch really tries to take a shortcut to the end. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.
 
ziomario said:
And then,at a certain point, the group is "magically" rewarded because "it" believed in it. It can't work if you start right away thinking you won't make it to the end. If you think this, you definitely won't get there, actually you won't even start.
Click to expand...
If you are talking about motivating others, you may recognize failing to motivate this community so far. May it be they feel getting manipulated instead?

If your intrinsic motivation is strong enough Mario, do not fight here. Try to write a concept of your project instead of wasting time and energy.

zirias@ said:
So what's the point here [FONT=monospace]getopt[/FONT]? Do you think we have some brilliant idea here and nobody is able to see? 😁
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Unfortunately there is none. All I can see is someone's dream.
 
ziomario said:
I may think that the problem is to start thinking to port FreeBSD in a phone because a phone is perceived as one too complicated device.
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It's not. What you fail to realize is this is already an ongoing project. It already exists. Every phone nowadays is an ARM based computer with a touch screen. At least if we're talking about 'smartphones'. Want to participate in porting FreeBSD to an ARM based computer? You can already do this. Right now. Then maybe some day it might be possible for an ARM based computer phone to run FreeBSD. But maybe first get some experience with participating in existing projects, until you have enough skills to start your own projects?
 
This project is fairly easy...

Get a Raspberry Pi (1, 2, 3 or 4 will suffice)
Install FreeBSD on it
Stick a USB powerbank to it [here]
Stick a USB headphone, microphone, webcam combo to it [here]
Stick a RJ45 mobile WiFi dongle to it [here]
Plug in a GPIO LCD [here]
Connect up some buttons to remaining GPIO [here]
Finally put it all in a suitable protective case [here]

In essence, you now have a FreeBSD "smart phone". Did I miss anything?
 
SirDice said:
What you fail to realize is this is already an ongoing project. It already exists. Every phone nowadays is an ARM based computer with a touch screen.
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Hm. Sure, that's part of the goal. But I guess it's the easiest part. Yes, FreeBSD works on ARM 😉
Dealing with all the different SoC hardware (and mind you, in this world, there's no such thing as standardized hardware detection methods), interfacing with and using actual "phone" hardware (GSM/UMTS/LTE/...), creating some user interface that's actually usable on such a device, etc pp .... that's probably all a LOT more difficult.

Everything can be done. But some idea where you know the cost will be massive without knowing anything about the expected benefit, that's something I'd prefer to not even start. 🤷‍♂️
 
astyle said:
OP is Internet shorthand for Opening Poster... Anyone here can figure that much out. I started quite a few threads on these Forums, I've been OP in those threads. In this thread, you're the OP...

There's no such thing as

There is such a thing as 'divide and conquer'. It means to divide the project up until you have a list of tasks you can actually accomplish. People on these Forums can help with brainstorming - but you have to ask them right. Know what the expectations are.

  • One starts a project because they know what to do. You admitted to not knowing what to do, not even how to get started.
  • One asks for help when they get stuck. There are good and bad ways to ask for help. Selling vague ideas on the basis of "It might be fun" is NOT a good way to ask for help.
  • One keeps going because it's fun. That comes last. And your pitch really tries to take a shortcut to the end. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.
Click to expand...

Again,your focus is "you (me) ask and we reply" : this is not my focus. My focus is : "we ask and we answer". If there isn't a "we",a project like this can't be affordable. The first step in my opinion is to create a group of users who wants to start talking. Not necessarily about the pinephone. The group choose what to do. Maybe another kind of device will emerge from the discussion. For sure,I like to see FreeBSD on a mobile device (phone,tablet,PDA,etc). And what I like more is to find innovative ways to overcome the complexity of the problems. We need brillant ideas. At this point i think that the easiest way is to choose carefully the hardware components to use. They should be already FreeBSD compatible. Otherwise the project will become too much complicated because of the lack of the drivers. The first hardware component to talk about is the internal modem of the phone. We need to find one that's compatible with FreeBSD. Just for my curiosity : is there a chance to have a modem that can be kept inside your pocket instead of embed it within the phone ? The phone could connect to it to allows the placing of the calls. Maybe this will help,offering a larger types of modem to use. I don't think that will be so uncomfortable to keep a small modem inside your pocket.
 
ziomario said:
The first step in my opinion is to create a group of users who wants to start talking.
Click to expand...
Do it.

ziomario said:
We need to find one that's compatible with FreeBSD.
Click to expand...
Do it.
ziomario said:
At this point i think that the easiest way is to choose carefully the hardware components to use.
Click to expand...
Do it.

And a lot more of that here. Once you have done your homework, may be (just may be) someone will be interested in what you have already done, and then there will be a "we".
 
there are intel atom x5 tablets, maybe some old phones too
my tablet boots freebsd but didn't try X on it
wifi is some realtek chip on sdio and does not work
screen is stuck to portrait mode and font is fugly
mine has a pretty standard bios
i see that similar hardware sells for about $50-$70 on ebay
 
There's kind of a reason why venture capitalism even exists... But even VC companies will reject half-baked ideas or outright hot air like what OP is spouting. VC is a pretty cutthroat place, but in exchange, they are the ones with the money to get anything off the ground.

OP, if you want help, what have YOU done to that end? spouted some half-baked ideas that you have no idea how to even get started on? At the very least, work on your phrasing... and try to figure out what kind of phrasing gets the results you want. This is FreeBSD Forums, not an army conscription center. When in Rome, do as Romans do... which is kind of the basics for psychology to begin with... 😒
 
zirias@ said:
Hm. Sure, that's part of the goal. But I guess it's the easiest part. Yes, FreeBSD works on ARM 😉
Dealing with all the different SoC hardware (and mind you, in this world, there's no such thing as standardized hardware detection methods), interfacing with and using actual "phone" hardware (GSM/UMTS/LTE/...), creating some user interface that's actually usable on such a device, etc pp .... that's probably all a LOT more difficult.
Click to expand...
Sure. The idea was to show ziomario he can already take part in this. You can build about 99% of a 'smartphone' using a random ARM development board. Get FreeBSD running on as many different development boards as possible and you're pretty much half way there.
 
kpedersen said:
This project is fairly easy...

Get a Raspberry Pi (1, 2, 3 or 4 will suffice)
Install FreeBSD on it
Stick a USB powerbank to it [here]
Stick a USB headphone, microphone, webcam combo to it [here]
Stick a RJ45 mobile WiFi dongle to it [here]
Plug in a GPIO LCD [here]
Connect up some buttons to remaining GPIO [here]
Finally put it all in a suitable protective case [here]

In essence, you now have a FreeBSD "smart phone". Did I miss anything?
Click to expand...

It's missing a modem man, that's just a disfigured laptop. I'd look like a fool carrying that around with me. 😆
 
Beastie7 said:
It's missing a modem man, that's just a disfigured laptop. I'd look like a fool carrying that around with me. 😆
Click to expand...

To be fair, if you buy big enough wellies, you could fit it all in there *and* still wear them. No-one would even know of your "FreeBSD based smart phone"(TM) capabilities ;)

As for the modem, I did have that covered via the RJ45 mobile dongle (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313926335839). Presumably there is one rattling around in there somewhere!

(It is about 13cm, so you would likely need to buy a pair of large boots case. But at least there will also be room for that motion sensor request from SirDice in the premium models)
 
kpedersen said:
This project is fairly easy...

Get a Raspberry Pi (1, 2, 3 or 4 will suffice)
Install FreeBSD on it
Stick a USB powerbank to it [here]
Stick a USB headphone, microphone, webcam combo to it [here]
Stick a RJ45 mobile WiFi dongle to it [here]
Plug in a GPIO LCD [here]
Connect up some buttons to remaining GPIO [here]
Finally put it all in a suitable protective case [here]

In essence, you now have a FreeBSD "smart phone". Did I miss anything?
Click to expand...

you know what's missing. You didn't create a phone,but a sandwich. Several years ago I did something like that. Yes,it's easy,but it's not what I want and no one wants here.
 
Regarding the Pinephone:

1. The first step would be to create a bootable image (Pinephone has an Allwinner 64, Pinephone pro has Rockckip RS 3399S). Arm mailing list may help with this.

3. Then get the image to the official website (freebsd.org/where).

4. Write a tutorial or make a youtube video on how to flash that image on the Pinephone.

5. Now people with a pinephone can start to write drivers and test them, or write userland stuff and test that, depending on their preferences and skills.

6. Make a wiki page of what works and what doesn't.

7. Make more and more people get interested..
 
kpedersen said:
To be fair, if you buy big enough wellies, you could fit it all in there *and* still wear them. No-one would even know of your "FreeBSD based smart phone"(TM) capabilities ;)

As for the modem, I did have that covered via the RJ45 mobile dongle (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313926335839). Presumably there is one rattling around in there somewhere!

(It is about 13cm, so you would likely need to buy a pair of large boots case. But at least there will also be room for that motion sensor request from SirDice in the premium models)
Click to expand...

It's too big.
SirDice said:
Sure. The idea was to show ziomario he can already take part in this. You can build about 99% of a 'smartphone' using a random ARM development board. Get FreeBSD running on as many different development boards as possible and you're pretty much half way there.
Click to expand...

no.
 
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