What is your viewpoint of the "The Cloud"?

[kpedersen]

Instead of a user-programmable general purpose machine, which is what we have enjoyed since the advent of the PC

I agree with this completely, it is quite a worry, possibly not for ourselves but certainly future generations (that said, I have enough Thinkpads stockpiled for around 3 generations XD).

What further exasperates this is that to this day normal people like you and I are unable to make an "open" computer ourselves, we are still completely reliant on a corporation to do it and that is where trust and stability ends.

I think that is pretty disappointing that the free/open communities to this day have all failed to lay a foundation of open-ness when it comes to hardware and we are instead hanging on to technology by re-purposing proprietary hardware. Yes, it is evidently hard, yes it is possibly expensive but we have had many years to solve these problems and we have not; time is running out, I actually no longer think we will.

A dystopian future of salvaging old general purpose hardware from a rusty scrap-heap wearing nothing but bubble wrap is ours XD.

And before that, computers are going to get extremely tacky; we are already seeing adverts in the Windows desktop and this is further going to devalue the importantness of a computer for the average user. I rekon people will go back to an abacus rather than be bothered clicking through countless adverts to use the Windows(C) Calculator(R) App(TM).

 

[Remington]

What about cancers concerning it?

Does 5G Internet Really Give You Cancer? Here's What We Know and Don't Know

"5G is an emerging technology that hasn’t really been defined yet."

www.inverse.com

The more unefficient the internet, the more cancers ?
The more unefficient web browser usage, the more cancers ?

Is google empire responsible of unefficient networking and rise of cancers... with overuse of clouds by industries?

It's time to move out of the cities into countryside with less exposure to RFR. They're not going to stop at 5G.... it'll be 6G and so on and they might as well put up XG with x-ray and it'll be time to put a tin-foil hat on.

Aside from my sarcasm, anything that put out more radio especially high frequencies increase chances of cancer. It's known fact even phone industries will deny it.

 

[drhowarddrfine]

I always find discussions of clouds to be boring and weird. It's servers on the internet and nothing else. You can do your own "cloud" by renting a few VPS. "Cloud" is a marketing term. Though one can argue it's a service, it's only a service for connecting servers together which you can do by yourself.

 

[Remington]

I always find discussions of clouds to be boring and weird. It's servers on the internet and nothing else. You can do your own "cloud" by renting a few VPS. "Cloud" is a marketing term. Though one can argue it's a service, it's only a service for connecting servers together which you can do by yourself.

Precisely that's why I do it myself. I have my own server at my house using Seafile. I find the cost much more effective and I have total control over the hardware and software setups. I can access my files remotely.

Leasing or own a server at data center is also a good option.

 

[blackbird9]

itsthosestonesman
Maybe "the cloud" is a Fermi Filter.

Obscured by clouds?

 

[kpedersen]

I always find discussions of clouds to be boring and weird. It's servers on the internet and nothing else.

Its strange but if it was under different circumstances, the technology behind "cloud" networks would fascinate me. However because it is all in the name of "money!" and there is nothing that innovative about remote servers; I agree it is a tad boring. We have a UNIX VM grid where I work which is really cool but as soon as it would be outsourced to i.e Amazon, I would rarely touch it and would almost certainly lose all interest in it.

 

[blackbird9]

It's time to move out of the cities into countryside with less exposure to RFR. They're not going to stop at 5G.... it'll be 6G and so on and they might as well put up XG with x-ray and it'll be time to put a tin-foil hat on.

Aside from my sarcasm, anything that put out more radio especially high frequencies increase chances of cancer. It's known fact even phone industries will deny it.

Of course this concern applies to 5G and other microwave technologies rather than to the 'cloud' itself. If the entire network was optical the issue would presumably not arise. I don't feel I have enough knowledge to assess the cancer risk of 5G, but if some of the claims made in the article you linked are correct there may be real cause for concern. The question will be how long it takes before such health effects become apparant.

 

[Matty]

As a developer it's great that I can provision a production grade machine in minutes to test stuff or scale without going through forms and jump through hoops to get a machine.

The try things out and start small and scale as you go is a big part of what makes the cloud attractive to me.

 

[Remington]

Of course this concern applies to 5G and other microwave technologies rather than to the 'cloud' itself. If the entire network was optical the issue would presumably not arise. I don't feel I have enough knowledge to assess the cancer risk of 5G, but if some of the claims made in the article you linked are correct there may be real cause for concern. The question will be how long it takes before such health effects become apparant.

It won't take long. Remember there are 3G, 4G and soon 5G cell towers. The only difference is that 5G will be more clustered due to its higher frequency, shorter range and it won't extend very far like 2G/3G does. Therefore, you will see more 5G towers than 3G/4G in the area. Also consider there will be multiple carriers with their own 5G towers. The exposure will be significant. I wouldn't want to buy a house with 5G tower in my backyard and I will file a complaint with the city officials if 5G tower will be built near my home.

The main reason why the carriers want 5G so they can push more data to their cloud services. That's why Amazon is pursuing to buy Sprint's Boost Mobile so their clients will use Amazon cloud services for data storage.

 

[blackbird9]

I agree with this completely, it is quite a worry, possibly not for ourselves but certainly future generations (that said, I have enough Thinkpads stockpiled for around 3 generations XD).

What further exasperates this is that to this day normal people like you and I are unable to make an "open" computer ourselves, we are still completely reliant on a corporation to do it and that is where trust and stability ends.

I think that is pretty disappointing that the free/open communities to this day have all failed to lay a foundation of open-ness when it comes to hardware and we are instead hanging on to technology by re-purposing proprietary hardware. Yes, it is evidently hard, yes it is possibly expensive but we have had many years to solve these problems and we have not; time is running out, I actually no longer think we will.

A dystopian future of salvaging old general purpose hardware from a rusty scrap-heap wearing nothing but bubble wrap is ours XD.

And before that, computers are going to get extremely tacky; we are already seeing adverts in the Windows desktop and this is further going to devalue the importantness of a computer for the average user. I rekon people will go back to an abacus rather than be bothered clicking through countless adverts to use the Windows(C) Calculator(R) App(TM).

Ah yes... a pile of old thinkpads hahaha...
I've got one like that too

Well, let's hope things work out. It gives me hope that after all these years, we still have commodity hardware that we can install a free operating system on. The PC isn't quite dead yet. And in hardware, there have been a couple of hopeful developments, like the raspberry pi and Risc-V. The build cost of something like a Pi is a fraction of those old 80s micros we remember, and it is hugely more capable. And the pi does demonstrate that the barriers to entry to bringing new hardware designs to market are becoming lower, compared to what they were. So maybe there are some grounds for optimism.

What's this got to do with the cloud? Everything. The cloud has its entire origins in commodity hardware...

 

[Phishfry]

What about cancers concerning it?

One only has to look at the huge cables on cell towers these days to realize our brains are being fried on a daily basis.
All this RF is such a new phenomenon there really is no way of saying if it is safe long term.

 

[Spartrekus]

It's time to move out of the cities into countryside with less exposure to RFR. They're not going to stop at 5G.... it'll be 6G and so on and they might as well put up XG with x-ray and it'll be time to put a tin-foil hat on.

Aside from my sarcasm, anything that put out more radio especially high frequencies increase chances of cancer. It's known fact even phone industries will deny it.

1) So why all smart phone users do not care about ?
They'll complain, but they still buy their android smart phones, iphone,... at 6G or high-speed routers, with super HD 9999e6*MPixels TVs, and see their relatives dying.

"...it takes before such health effects become apparant."
- Likely, Never, so long medias and money exist.

 

[hukadan]

[OFFTOPIC]

anything that put out more radio especially high frequencies increase chances of cancer. It's known fact

IMHO, it is more complicated than that. It depends on exposure level, as always when talking about toxicity. Even high consumption of water can cause death. From the WHO website :

Considering the very low exposure levels and research results collected to date, there is no convincing scientific evidence that the weak RF signals from base stations and wireless networks cause adverse health effects.

So if by "known fact", you mean that it is a known fact that exposure to high dose of radiation can lead to cancer, I would argue that it is also a known fact that drinking high quantity of water can lead to death. Yet, we would not gain much insight about the risk people take in their everyday lives.
[/OFFTOPIC]

 

[blackbird9]

[OFFTOPIC]

IMHO, it is more complicated than that. It depends on exposure level, as always when talking about toxicity. Even high consumption of water can cause death. From the WHO website :

So if by "known fact", you mean that it is a known fact that exposure to high dose of radiation can lead to cancer, I would argue that it is also a known fact that drinking high quantity of water can lead to death. Yet, we would not gain much insight about the risk people take in their everyday lives.
[/OFFTOPIC]

Water can indeed cause deaths. There have been a couple of documented cases of people suffering from cancer who drank so much in an attempted "water cure" that they died. Of course if you drink enough all the potassium will be drained from your body... typically resulting in a heart attack.

Just like radiation and chemical exposure, there is a dose rate and an associated risk. In the case of microwave radiation, it is clear that if you get enough it will cook you; just look at your cooker. What has not yet been established is what is the risk arising from the dose we are already exposed to, and is the risk from 5G significantly higher. One thing is for sure, I already switch off my laptop wireless when I work with it on my lap, and I never hold my smartphone to the side of my head. We gotta hope that somewhere there are some regulatory guys and gals studying this stuff!

 

[SirDice]

Water can indeed cause deaths. There have been a couple of documented cases of people suffering from cancer who drank so much in an attempted "water cure" that they died.

They literally drowned. You can actually drink so much water that your kidneys can't handle it any more. You simply drown in your own fluids.

Of course if you drink enough all the potassium will be drained from your body... typically resulting in a heart attack.

Common misconception is that drinking more will remove more toxins from your body. This is incorrect. Your body can only remove a certain amount on a daily basis and will do so regardless of the amount of water you drink.

There's also a common misconception that you need to drink at least an X amount of water per day. Your body will tell you when you need more water, you get thirsty. If you're not thirsty your body doesn't need water. It's as simple as that.

 

[blackbird9]

It won't take long. Remember there are 3G, 4G and soon 5G cell towers. The only difference is that 5G will be more clustered due to its higher frequency, shorter range and it won't extend very far like 2G/3G does. Therefore, you will see more 5G towers than 3G/4G in the area. Also consider there will be multiple carriers with their own 5G towers. The exposure will be significant. I wouldn't want to buy a house with 5G tower in my backyard and I will file a complaint with the city officials if 5G tower will be built near my home.

The main reason why the carriers want 5G so they can push more data to their cloud services. That's why Amazon is pursuing to buy Sprint's Boost Mobile so their clients will use Amazon cloud services for data storage.

Interesting ... I'm sure there is a mad dash for profit in 5G deployments without worrying over-much about the future consequences. Over in this neck of the woods I'm told there is a bidding war going on for companies trying to rent space on existing lamp-posts, to mount the 5G transceivers on. I think you have a very valid point - the main type of leaf node of the cloud network is the mobile device / IoT device set, we will likely be exposed to higher levels of uwave than at present.

However the point I was trying to make was, do we know what is the incubation time between the increased uwave exposure from 5G and a measurable change to the cancer statistics. I'm not saying it's negligible, just that we don't know, or at least ,I don't. In the case of nuclear disasters like chernobyl it was something like 20-30 years before the main peak of tumours occurred. The cancer rate in ukraine and beloruss from the chernobyl disaster fallout is still rising now, decades after the event. But that's from radioactive contamination, once its in the foodchain, getting into kids bodies through ingestion. So many kids there have throid cancer. But I don't know what the equivalent incubation time is for microwave exposure to people from irradiation from nearby masts, and the appearance of additional cancers in the population. Or what the risk is. But there must be people researching this and modelling the effects.

 

[blackbird9]

They literally drowned. You can actually drink so much water that your kidneys can't handle it any more. You simply drown in your own fluids.

Common misconception is that drinking more will remove more toxins from your body. This is incorrect. Your body can only remove a certain amount on a daily basis and will do so regardless of the amount of water you drink.

There's also a common misconception that you need to drink at least an X amount of water per day. Your body will tell you when you need more water, you get thirsty. If you're not thirsty your body doesn't need water. It's as simple as that.

Interesting... I would have assumed the loss of vital minerals would have caused metabolic failure before they drowned, but its sounds like you've looked into it pretty thoroughly. Potassium lost this way isn't a 'toxin', it's a vital water-soluble mineral needed for nerve function, vital for life. If your body loses too much K you develop a condition called hypokalemia, when you start to get at increased risk of things like heart attacks. If you ever do get to that point, you need to get some IV potassium in fast, to restore the level. Dieuretics like caffeine and some drugs typically cause K to be leached out, hypokalemia is quite commonly seen in hospital EDs.

 

[Spartrekus]

Interesting ... I'm sure there is a mad dash for profit in 5G deployments without worrying over-much about the future consequences. Over in this neck of the woods I'm told there is a bidding war going on for companies trying to rent space on existing lamp-posts, to mount the 5G transceivers on. I think you have a very valid point - the main type of leaf node of the cloud network is the mobile device / IoT device set, we will likely be exposed to higher levels of uwave than at present.

However the point I was trying to make was, do we know what is the incubation time between the increased uwave exposure from 5G and a measurable change to the cancer statistics. I'm not saying it's negligible, just that we don't know, or at least ,I don't. In the case of nuclear disasters like chernobyl it was something like 20-30 years before the main peak of tumours occurred. The cancer rate in ukraine and beloruss from the chernobyl disaster fallout is still rising now, decades after the event. But that's from radioactive contamination, once its in the foodchain, getting into kids bodies through ingestion. So many kids there have throid cancer. But I don't know what the equivalent incubation time is for microwave exposure to people from irradiation from nearby masts, and the appearance of additional cancers in the population. Or what the risk is. But there must be people researching this and modelling the effects.

What you said is definitely not a legend or rumors, it is actually huge. Thyroid cancer or skin changes are very much, very often observed within the population few kms around this nuclear disaster, but also with much larger distance. Sad but true, and easy to see it.
It happens on time span of about 10-25 years. You did not mention skin cancer as well. Very sad.
However, ... that's why people vote green?

Once there are available stats, which are stating, that might be bad, you'll be at 6G or 7G or 10G.

 

[Remington]

1) So why all smart phone users do not care about ?
They'll complain, but they still buy their android smart phones, iphone,... at 6G or high-speed routers, with super HD 9999e6*MPixels TVs, and see their relatives dying.

Misinformations. The governments and corporations tell people cell phones are safe and only naive people will believe it. It just as much as government saying that vaccines are safe when it have toxic chemicals in it and pharmaceuticals are protected from lawsuits. The governments and corporations are in bed together and ordinary people are the casualties.

You can reduce the probability of getting cancer by reducing the cellphone usages and turn it off at night. I know some people sleep with cellphone under their pillow or on the night stand by the bed. I keep my phone in the kitchen far from my bedroom.

 

[Spartrekus]

Misinformations. The governments and corporations tell people cell phones are safe and only naive people will believe it. It just as much as government saying that vaccines are safe when it have toxic chemicals in it and pharmaceuticals are protected from lawsuits. The governments and corporations are in bed together and ordinary people are the casualties.

You can reduce the probability of getting cancer by reducing the cellphone usages and turn it off at night. I know some people sleep with cellphone under their pillow or on the night stand by the bed. I keep my phone in the kitchen far from my bedroom.

So. then, it is governmental lies, which is not for the good of the population. There are no evidences of clear relations between cancers and cell phones. Actually, what about long distance flights, exposed to radiations? Not so much clear evidences. When you go for a CT, you can take even more risks (10 to 20 mSv., on a very small localized area, good luck) within less than 10 min.
Anyhow, likely US do care about those things and they will react.

 

[Remington]

So. then, it is governmental lies, which is not for the good of the population. There are no evidences of clear relations between cancers and cell phones. Actually, what about long distance flights, exposed to radiations? Not so much clear evidences. When you go for a CT, you can take even more risks (10 to 20 mSv., on a very small localized area, good luck) within less than 10 min.
Anyhow, likely US do care about those things and they will react.

Says who? How did they know there's no clear evidence if they have not done the tests in real environment with all kinds of radiation bouncing around vs the lab controlled settings? They may say 5G is safe but have they actually done testings with 2G/3G/4G, other radiations, radios and microwaves in our environment. What about 50 people in the metro car with all active cellphones? I'm saying it's a matter of time before we start seeing such an increase in cancer cases. The more exposures we receive the higher chances of cancer occurring.

 

[drhowarddrfine]

We've had radios and emissions for about 150 years. I'm sure someone, in all that time, has done plenty of studying on the subject.

 

[SirDice]

Interesting... I would have assumed the loss of vital minerals would have caused metabolic failure before they drowned, but its sounds like you've looked into it pretty thoroughly.

Also possible. It probably depends on how much water over what period. Taking in a lot of water in a short time can definitely kill you by drowning. It happened a few times in my teens, when electronic dance music and XTC (MDMA) were pretty much synonymous. Lots of kids died, not because of bad or too much drugs, but due to the copious amounts of water they drank.

Potassium lost this way isn't a 'toxin', it's a vital water-soluble mineral needed for nerve function, vital for life.

"All things are poison, and nothing is without poison, the dosage alone makes it so a thing is not a poison." - Paracelsus

 

[hukadan]

It just as much as government saying that vaccines are safe when it have toxic chemicals in it

Citation needed. Vaccines (medicine in general) are about benefit/risk balance, not "safe/not safe" rhetoric, e.g. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm:

As with any medicine, there is a very remote chance of a vaccine causing a severe allergic reaction, other serious injury, or death

I don't read safe when I read this.

I'm saying it's a matter of time before we start seeing such an increase in cancer cases.

And you are saying this based on what ?

 

[SirDice]

Vaccines (medicine in general) are about benefit/risk balance, not "safe/not safe" rhetoric

Besides that, lots of those "toxic chemicals" are in compounds, which drastically changes their properties. Sodium and Chloride can be, on their own, quite lethal. But everyone uses table salt. Oxygen and Hydrogen are too, yet we all drink water. Just ask any chemist student how this works.