What is your viewpoint of the "The Cloud"?

Yeah, that's the thing - FedEx is often way faster to deliver large amounts of data than the internet.
These data volume these guys were talking about would take days to copy locally, let along over the internet or USB.
The manager of the dept asked "Could I show up at a warehouse with a drive and say 'Plug this in?'"
The cloud sales guys looked at him like he just grew a second head.
 
That was not around back in 2011. I'm glad to see that it is now.
That kind of technology has been around for ages. The new thing the big cloud providers have done is to make this much more streamlined. In the old days, an IBM/HP/Sun/... service technician would come to your data center, with a small rack, and spend a few hours setting up a temporary system, and then ship it back with data. Today, the device has been optimized to where it can be shipped via FedEx or any freight company (for the larger ones), and is super easy to use.

In general, the same thing is true for the cloud. We've used cloud computing since ... in my personal case, about 1983 or so. That's when I had a 300 baud modem with acoustic coupler, a Hazeltine terminal, and an account on a mainframe (there was some machine somewhere that made the terminal emulate a 3277). Even before than, sharing big expensive computers over remote access lines was common. As an example, my dad's company (a 150-person wholesaler and distributor of automotive parts) for a while used a big mainframe installed in another city, shared with about a dozen similar-sized companies; we had about 10 terminals, all sharing a single hardwired (and very expensive) 9600 baud line. Only when mid-sized air-cooled computers became cost-effective was this setup replaced with a computer installed on-site. That transition must have happened somewhere in the mid to late 1970s. And even then, the transition was not complete: Initially (for about 5 years), the on-site computer was too small to have a complete parts database, and it didn't have enough CPU power and printing capacity to do the weekly billing run, so data was transferred weekly (by courier and tapes) to a central installation, about an hour by car away, where batch processing was done on a shared machine.

In the US, there used to be a very large commercial "cloud" company called TymShare. You could rent an account and computer time there. I just looked it up: They were a significant sized business from 1965 to the mid 1980s. Not conceptually different form what we do today with Amazon, Google and Microsoft.
 
I'm a 42 year old, currently unemployed, sysadmin who revelled in building large, geographically dispersed systems. I've built them with various combinations of Windows, Linux, AIX, FreeBSD & others - including Tru64 at one point.

What interviews I've had, I've expressed mixed opinions of the cloud. Personally, I'm shocked that any company would allow their data to be housed somewhere they literally cannot point to on a map, with the fact that the business pays the bills and can do what they want with their data.

Last year, I was working for an MSP and they & all their clients used all sorts of cloud services. Office 365 should have been called Office 347 for the amount of serious downtime it had last year. Plus, major secret project data held out in cloud servers:oops:. I mean, handy... when it worked. But with less functionality. Especially with Exchange365. You deleted your email longer than 2 weeks ago? Don't have 3rd party backup? Sorry.
When I worked at one company, we had our own simple internal cloud, with VPN syncing a central file server which was replicated to all the local sites. It worked great. I duplicated that method at another job to centralise the file servers while keeping local access quick.

I'd like to hear what other sysadmins think of "The Cloud". Is it something to be embraced? Avoided? A compromise?

I view my position as sysadmin as protecting company data is job #1 and every other task has to keep that idea in mind. If something doesn't or cannot be assisted to made to, it has to be discarded and another solution found. Perhaps I'm missing the knowledge of those tools on the Cloud. My own experiences with AWS and Telus (in Canada) have been disappointing.

Thank you for your input.

"The Cloud" : maybe it has something to do with free services, and how IT generations are being educated. Education is not promoting company servers for industry and companies, which are relying on Solaris, FreeBSD, NetBSD,... and Unix. Then, IT and admins know only one choice : Microsoft, MS Windows. Cloud will keep rising.

The cloud is not new and "other peoples" computers have existed since the creation of the world's second computer ;)

Would I store important stuff on a secure server under my control (and preferably offline)? Yes.
Would I store important stuff on my grandparent's livingroom PC or a server run by Microsoft? No.

Basically, neither my grandparents nor a consumer desktop software company like Microsoft can guarantee safety of my data.

Would I chuck a load of old cat photos on my grandparents computer or Microsoft's servers? They are already there ;)
what happen if a burglar comes in and take all your harddisks?

Note:
CLI is Power.
Not vmware.
 
what happen if a burglar comes in and take all your harddisks?

I am fine with 'if'. When it comes to what we call the "cloud", especially ran by something like Microsoft, it becomes 'when'.

Looking at how they secure their hotmail servers; they are... not good at this stuff XD.
 
I think the coolest thing about the cloud is that it puts the entire power of the data center in your hand in a scalable fashion. The services that I’ve been learning on aws are awesome. I know it may have been done differently in the past but I feel cloud platforms like aws will create a revolution in computing just like PCs did not too long ago.
 
I think the coolest thing about the cloud is that it puts the entire power of the data center in your hand in a scalable fashion. The services that I’ve been learning on aws are awesome. I know it may have been done differently in the past but I feel cloud platforms like aws will create a revolution in computing just like PCs did not too long ago.
i just don't know any single cloud, which could of benefits.

If you are born with PDP, Unix first releases..., BSD, Solaris, you will start to think that Cloud is the most harmful thing considering network bandwidth usage. There drawbacks behind tiny benefits, and it is far less efficient and respecting users, in comparison with an (S)FTP connection.
 
i just don't know any single cloud, which could of benefits.

If you are born with PDP, Unix first releases..., BSD, Solaris, you will start to think that Cloud is the most harmful thing considering network bandwidth usage. There drawbacks behind tiny benefits, and it is far less efficient and respecting users, in comparison with an (S)FTP connection.

I guess I just like how they have been packaging it up. In all honesty I was never exposed to all the stuff that you are saying and am not opposed to that methodology.
 
I guess I just like how they have been packaging it up. In all honesty I was never exposed to all the stuff that you are saying and am not opposed to that methodology.

That's just Unix
 

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Personally, I'm shocked that any company would allow their data to be housed somewhere they literally cannot point to on a map, with the fact that the business pays the bills and can do what they want with their data.
I think that's picturing things a bit too drastically.

Which is a small annoyance I have when people talk about "the cloud" because that can literally mean a dozen different things. Mere file storage? "Cloud", virtual server? "Cloud", database services? "Cloud". Yet when they do talk about the cloud they talk as if it's all the same, which is obviously not true.

Another thing: "they can do what they want with their data", I assume you're talking about the cloud provider? Because that remains to be seen; there are often EULA's put into place which means that both sides have a few restrictions to keep in mind.

A cloud provider can't "just" collect whatever data is stored on their services and use that for their own purposes, that's ridiculous.

.... depending on the cloud provider. I'd definitely see Google pull of a stunt like that but you'll find all that in the EULA (one of the reasons my company hardly dealt with Google services and tried to avoid those like the plague).

But from a business p.o.v. I can easily see why a company would want this. Outsourcing. Set up a solid service level agreement ("SLA") and you'll get what you pay for. You don't need to know where the data is being stored as long as you know it'll be available if you need it and it's stored in a safe way, also in a way denoted by the several agreements.


As for me... I believe the 'Cloud' is something to be embraced but as always you need to know what the heck you're doing. If you approach the cloud as the solution to everything you're going to end up burned. But if you use your brains then cloud can become a really affordable alternative to physical servers.
 
A friend of mine explains it as "there is no cloud, there is only 'Our computers' and 'Other peoples computers'. If you are comfortable with your data on other peoples computers, that's a risk you need to sign off on. Otherwise, we'll make it work in house."

A major risk for a business buying the cloud/subscription model: one very recent example here.
 
A major risk for a business buying the cloud/subscription model: one very recent example here.
Data are at risks, more actually knowledge and know-how.

Since data are either in US or China, you can expect that chineese world domination will take over US in some years, faster than US president may think and he could be still waiting that Google Inc. saves US economy.

What you expect?
 
I left my old job that did not use "cloud" and started a new one that has its own data center and uses AWS EC, Iaas, Saas, etc. Sys admins need to know "cloud" if they want to keep up with the technology and have a better chance of getting and staying employed.
 
I left my old job that did not use "cloud" and started a new one that has its own data center and uses AWS EC, Iaas, Saas, etc. Sys admins need to know "cloud" if they want to keep up with the technology and have a better chance of getting and staying employed.

It is obvious, since largest market is powered by google (incl. android), microsoft, apple and that desktop computers are mostly android, microsoft os and apple. Less desktops are Linux or BSD.
Unix incl. BSD needs to adapt to give awesome, faster, servers for Clouds. This won't change. There were clouds, but today still there and larger.
It can somehow change after some decades, maybe, free software will take over Microsoft one day or the opposite. No one can predict future.

Clouds are definitely a good way to go for admin job.

The crap is that sometimes, file transferts are made over a graphical web browser, which is ultra slow and it is spyed, fbi, google, nsa...
About 30 years ago, people would never believe that file transfert is made with a web browser of several 100 mb or more into memory/cache ;)
 
I generally tends to avoid cloud services such as Google or Dropbox for privacy reasons. I don't trust their privacy policies as they have the rights to change them anytime and often times they sell off their division or services to different companies that have different policies. Instead, I use my own cloud service such as Seafile on my own in-house servers. There are other cloud apps like NextCloud but I like Seafile as it's more reliable and stable.
 
In the US, there used to be a very large commercial "cloud" company called TymShare. You could rent an account and computer time there. I just looked it up: They were a significant sized business from 1965 to the mid 1980s. Not conceptually different form what we do today with Amazon, Google and Microsoft.
Yes and I would plug CompuServe right in that hole after TymShare. At the time they not only had a large home user base but many business ran on the CompuServe network. It was very reliable over ISDN at a time when a T1 line cost $700 a month.
The CB Simulator service was introduced in 1980 and was the first public, commercial multi-user chat program
 
With the upcoming inevitable adoption of 5G (notwithstanding the huawei furore) the cloud is only going to become more prevalent as the network becomes less of a barrier. The economics of scale realised by the cloud service providers in placing orders for large amounts of hardware mean that they can compete favourably with local facilities, albeit the provders own margins are likely to be wafer thin as they compete with each other. From the standpoint of a corporate accountant (I'm not one, btw) the cloud has the same attraction as similar commoditisation megatrends of recent decades like offshoring the manufacturing base; you can eliminate lots of fixed cost and people at home and convert it into a leasing arrangement, and boost your bottom line in the process. So I think the growth of cloud will accelerate and replace much of the world as we have known it.

What makes me sad is I think there will be a concomittant move to take computers as we have known them away from the general population, and the cloud facilitates that. Instead of a user-programmable general purpose machine, which is what we have enjoyed since the advent of the PC, we will end up with closed technology terminals that we use as consumers, in a similar model to the pstn phone companies. The consumer has a terminal and no visibility of the infrastructure owned by the phone companies and the handset works like magic. You can see this trend already with the replacement of PCs with smartphones. While it is still possible to develop programs for smartphones, they are not as accessible in this way as a home micro or PC. How long before even laptops become obsolete? How many people actually buy desktop PCs now? I personally believe putting general purpose computers into the hands of the population has been a force for personal freedom in western society, and replacing them with de-facto non-programmable opaque end terminals like smartphones reduces personal freedom and transfers power back to the corporations and governments.
 
Another thing: "they can do what they want with their data", I assume you're talking about the cloud provider? Because that remains to be seen; there are often EULA's put into place which means that both sides have a few restrictions to keep in mind.

Data are at risks, ...
I generally tends to avoid cloud services such as Google or Dropbox for privacy reasons. I don't trust their privacy policies ...

To a large extent, that's pointless paranoia.

If you are using the cloud just to store data (sort of the Dropbox, Amazon S3, Google GCS, or Microsoft Azure Storage), then you can store encrypted data, and you keep the encryption key. At that point, the cloud provider has no way to look at the content of your data. All they can do is destroy it, for example if you don't pay your bill. Ok, there are a few theoretical possibilities: they could tamper with it and modify it. Your decryption step will trivially detect that, if you include signature checking (some decryption software does that automatically, I don't know whether all do). And they can notice whether you are using a lot or a little storage right now, and do traffic analysis. That's like measuring when international tensions are rising, by measuring how much pizza gets ordered late at night by the pentagon.

So we don't need to worry about data at rest: it is reasonably secure.

By the way, if you think your data is more secure at home, think again. Remember the scandal when disk drives were found to contain spying firmware?

Now, if you also use the cloud to do processing, it gets more interesting. You can keep your data at rest encrypted (in the cloud), but to use it or write it, it will be decrypted. This happens inside a computer, which in the case of the cloud is a computer you are renting. That computer is built from off-the-shelf parts by the cloud provider. The smaller ones buy standard motherboards, the larger ones make their own motherboards. All use stock chips (CPUs from Intel/AMD/Arm..., memory from memory vendor du jour, IO from the standard sources). That computer runs the OS of your choice, perhaps with a virtualization layer underneath (you can rent both a physical computer and a virtualized computer in the cloud). The cloud provider can't become root on your machine ... they don't have that password, you do. They can't spy on your network traffic if you use all encrypted protocols (https for example).

And within the computer (within the motherboard), the stock chips don't have any loopholes that are not also present if the computer were at your house or business. So the only way they could spy on you would be to add explicit hardware to the motherboard, which looks at memory content or PCI bus traffic. And they would have to keep that completely secret, and do it without any performance impact (can't steal a cycle here or there), because otherwise performance measurement would reveal the spying. And note that the smaller cloud companies either use off-the-shelf hardware (motherboards, IO cards), while the larger ones use custom motherboards, but still have to outsource all chip manufacturing and board assembly. So adding a dedicated spying chip would be something that lots of people outside the company would know about, and would have to keep secret.

Now, if the cloud providers could do that, the standard motherboard makers could do that to. Oh wait, they have already been accused of doing that! Remember the scandals about Intel's service processor, and about Supermicro (made in China) motherboards that have hidden chips implanted by the Chinese agencies?

In reality, processing data at a cloud provider is roughly as secure or insecure as doing it on your own premises. In theory, you can make your own site more secure. The first step is to disconnect *ALL* network wires going in and out; the second step is to control all access by humans (including computer maintenance people), and making sure those humans don't bring any communication devices (cell phone) or storage devices (USB keys, paper, pencil) in or out. There are data centers that are run that way; they tend to exist at national security agencies, military, and nuclear labs. I've heard stories that involve marines at the door, sites where every sys admin has an assault rifle on his back, and places where visitors have to be followed at all times by a security guard who carries a big flashing red light to announce the presence of an outside. All this is in practice unachievable.

The real risk to data security is whether your system is well administered, and protected from the common viruses and attacks. Compared to that, the choice of whether to do the processing on-site or off-site is secondary.
 
With the upcoming inevitable adoption of 5G (notwithstanding the huawei furore) the cloud is only going to become more prevalent as the network becomes less of a barrier. The economics of scale realised by the cloud service providers in placing orders for large amounts of hardware mean that they can compete favourably with local facilities, albeit the provders own margins are likely to be wafer thin as they compete with each other. From the standpoint of a corporate accountant (I'm not one, btw) the cloud has the same attraction as similar commoditisation megatrends of recent decades like offshoring the manufacturing base; you can eliminate lots of fixed cost and people at home and convert it into a leasing arrangement, and boost your bottom line in the process. So I think the growth of cloud will accelerate and replace much of the world as we have known it.

What makes me sad is I think there will be a concomittant move to take computers as we have known them away from the general population, and the cloud facilitates that. Instead of a user-programmable general purpose machine, which is what we have enjoyed since the advent of the PC, we will end up with closed technology terminals that we use as consumers, in a similar model to the pstn phone companies. The consumer has a terminal and no visibility of the infrastructure owned by the phone companies and the handset works like magic. You can see this trend already with the replacement of PCs with smartphones. While it is still possible to develop programs for smartphones, they are not as accessible in this way as a home micro or PC. How long before even laptops become obsolete? How many people actually buy desktop PCs now? I personally believe putting general purpose computers into the hands of the population has been a force for personal freedom in western society, and replacing them with de-facto non-programmable opaque end terminals like smartphones reduces personal freedom and transfers power back to the corporations and governments.

What about cancers concerning it?

The more unefficient the internet, the more cancers ?
The more unefficient web browser usage, the more cancers ?

Is google empire responsible of unefficient networking and rise of cancers... with overuse of clouds by industries?
 
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