Solved What did you think of the FreeBSD Discord channel

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vigole

vigole

Daemon

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Did you have the same name back then? Man that place got polluted fast.
No, I didn't. At the time I was a privacy/anonymous-freak. Bunch of dummy email, temporary profiles and VPN, here and there. Even this is my 3rd account in the FreeBSD Forums. Since then (last 6 years), I've changed my attitude.
 

vermaden

Son of Beastie

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When I clicked on the link, it says, "vermaden invited you to join The FreeBSD Project".

A FreeBSD forum member who often has content on the Internet about FreeBSD, unless it's an impersonator.

(edit, likely really vermaden, as it's something that user would do. I didn't think I needed to state that)

Yes, that link was from me.

But I am not sure which FreeBSD Discord channel is the official one.

I just added subscribed to another one :)



IIRC I used to read vermaden post/tutorial on bsdforums.org Forums. It's one the oldest internet/nickname I can remember! Learnt a lot from him/her.

I really don't know, but I don't think any impersonator is involved.

Thanks :)



vermaden 's content/website showed up in my phone's web feed once or twice. The person was wondering where that traffic to their webpage was coming from, and what the referral looked like. I was unable to get a screenshot from that page on my phone to show.

It perhaps was this same one, https://vermaden.wordpress.com/. I don't remember well if that was the same one then. It could have been one featured on Medium.

Yes, thats my page, sorry for all the advertisements (its free variant), please use Ublock Origin to get rid of them.

I used to repost my articles to Medium but almost no one read them there (on Medium) so I basically abandoned Medium and post links there (like on Twitter) very rarely.
 

ekvz

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I get it, you've got to approach a newer generation with what's "hip". So, I can see the appeal.
As others have said, one has to worry about the dilution of information across FreeBSD's various areas: mailing lists, irc, forums, discord, twitter, facebook(?).

After all, years ago all communication was done via mailing lists and majordomo.

It's not only the fragmentation. I also wonder if embracing such technology is a wise move in the broader scope. Open source (at least for a big part) survives on DIY. The direction things are going these days is to more and more remove DIY from the equation and replace it with prebuilt solutions controled by 3rd party entities. Where this is heading is very much obvious. Walled gardens left and right with hardware locked down to remove any option of doing something on your own and people are quickly becoming more and more used to the status quo. I doubt that's a good basis for finding the one and only thing that's actually important for open source projects - contributors - or in the long run maybe even the ability to be used.
 

drhowarddrfine

Son of Beastie

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You see the activity only once you check marked the #readme.
That seemed to work unless a lot more activity showed up since yesterday morning. It wasn't clear how I was supposed to "react" in #readme. I just clicked on the checkmark and I guess that did it as the count went up one more.
 

drhowarddrfine

Son of Beastie

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Open source (at least for a big part) survives on DIY. The direction things are going these days is to more and more remove DIY from the equation and replace it with prebuilt solutions controled by 3rd party entities.
A little OT but, here in my town, the place to go for anything homebrew electronics was Gateway Electronics. If you want some obscure part, or just an every day transistor resistor combination, Gateway probably had two or more. I just learned that they are closing at the end of this month after 60 years in the business. I can't tell you how long ago I first went there.

It's a dark, dark day. I don't know what I'm going to do. I often built stage props for the theatre companies I worked with using parts from there. If I ever hit a snag, the guy behind the counter could help. I once needed a telephone to PA system interface and couldn't remember part of the telephone side. The guy behind the counter grabbed the parts, put it together, tested it, and drew a schematic for me that worked the first time.
 

obsigna

Daemon

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What's the "check marked"?

Open the #readme channel and click on the green check in order to count your mark.
Bildschirmfoto 2020-10-02 um 06.55.39.png

For sure you did this already, since you wrote already some posts in a variety of channels. This would have been not possible with out the „check marking“ action.
 

ekvz

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A little OT but, here in my town, the place to go for anything homebrew electronics was Gateway Electronics. If you want some obscure part, or just an every day transistor resistor combination, Gateway probably had two or more. I just learned that they are closing at the end of this month after 60 years in the business. I can't tell you how long ago I first went there.

It's a dark, dark day. I don't know what I'm going to do. I often built stage props for the theatre companies I worked with using parts from there. If I ever hit a snag, the guy behind the counter could help. I once needed a telephone to PA system interface and couldn't remember part of the telephone side. The guy behind the counter grabbed the parts, put it together, tested it, and drew a schematic for me that worked the first time.

It's pretty much the same here. We actually had two of those kind of shops. One of them closed down like 5-10 years ago already while the other slowly shifted towards consumer electronics and while it was still possible to buy parts the last time i went there it really feels like it's mostly a service to the reminder of their old customer base but nothing they care for as in they'd keep stock or hire people with actual knowledge of what they are selling. I guess there just isn't much of a market for it anymore. I see how the increasing complexity of technology might play a bit of a role but there is also a shift in the general attitude i think. The overall drive to understand or even build things seems to be decreasing. At least that's the impression i am getting.
 

Mjölnir

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It's not only the fragmentation. I also wonder if embracing such technology is a wise move in the broader scope. Open source (at least for a big part) survives on DIY. The direction things are going these days is to more and more remove DIY from the equation and replace it with prebuilt solutions controled by 3rd party entities. Where this is heading is very much obvious. Walled gardens left and right with hardware locked down to remove any option of doing something on your own and people are quickly becoming more and more used to the status quo. I doubt that's a good basis for finding the one and only thing that's actually important for open source projects - contributors - or in the long run maybe even the ability to be used.
Yes, but open source software would be a walled garden too if it's usage is restricted to those who're able to DIY. It is vital & important to be inclusive to the non-nerd average Joe. Also remember that contributing is not restricted to highly technical tasks around source code; e.g. documentation is commonly seen as part of a software, testing can be done by anyone, and there are other organising & coordinating tasks where non-technical skills are much more important than IT-knowldge. Then there's also this viewpoint: computer nerds contribute to open source, and others contribute in other areas (NGOs, etc.) where the IT-nerds hopefully benefit.

On the genuine topic, I think it's ok to address people on the channels where they are, but I'd like to happen regular & important communication happen via open protocols & de-centralized platforms like mailing lists, IRC, XMPP and in the future maybe Matrix.
 

sidetone

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Yes, thats my page, sorry for all the advertisements (its free variant), please use Ublock Origin to get rid of them.

I used to repost my articles to Medium but almost no one read them there (on Medium) so I basically abandoned Medium and post links there (like on Twitter) very rarely.

You have several sites. I didn't know if the one from yours at Wordpress, from Medium or another one was the same one that showed up in my phone's news feed. It's the one I told you about that showed up on my phone, and you asked about it, because you didn't know where the traffic to that page was coming from.
 
OP
vigole

vigole

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For sure you did this already, since you wrote already some posts in a variety of channels. This would have been not possible with out the „check marking“ action.
You're right. The whole thing is very confusing. I'm new to such platforms. Take a while to learn how things work over there!
 
OP
vigole

vigole

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I'll hang around in FreeBSD Dischord for a while and sharing its Link with others, exclusively to introduce FreeBSD to non-FreeBSD users. I'm oppose of technical discussion in the Discord. It's going to repel potential new-users. Technical discussions belong to mailing list and Forums. Discord or similar platform has only one advantage (the only one, and merely for marketing purpose. IMHO!):
arranging non-official audio (or video) meeting & posting it's recorded session on youtube, etc.
All of that being said, to keep my sanity, I prefer using classic platforms: mail (mailing list) and forums. I found that real-time communication (IM, group/IM, etc) are bad for psyche and sanity.
 

ekvz

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Yes, but open source software would be a walled garden too if it's usage is restricted to those who're able to DIY. It is vital & important to be inclusive to the non-nerd average Joe. Also remember that contributing is not restricted to highly technical tasks around source code; e.g. documentation is commonly seen as part of a software, testing can be done by anyone, and there are other organising & coordinating tasks where non-technical skills are much more important than IT-knowldge. Then there's also this viewpoint: computer nerds contribute to open source, and others contribute in other areas (NGOs, etc.) where the IT-nerds hopefully benefit.

Absolutely. Contributing goes way beyond just writing code (even if that's essential to actually make things happen in relation to IT). I don't want to marginalize support, activism or organization. It's also not like i want to exclude non-contributors. Why would i? It's not like there is a limited amount of copies and them using one reducing my chances of getting any. As soon as personalized support is required it gets a little more complicated though as in this case limited resources are being used. I think it's a valid question how much the simple fact of someone using something and thereby improving the chances of being noticed by people who are actually willing to get their hands dirty and keep the ball rolling is resulting in a positive net result for the project itself.

On the genuine topic, I think it's ok to address people on the channels where they are, but I'd like to happen regular & important communication happen via open protocols & de-centralized platforms like mailing lists, IRC, XMPP and in the future maybe Matrix.

I agree. I think by making it a side goal to encourage people to move to open alternatives (whatever those might be as was already discusses elsewhere) dealing with stuff like Discord might even be a somewhat positive thing. Matrix seems to be a little bit of a mixed bag though. I can't find the links right now but i've been following some discussions on the privacytoolsio bugtracker and it seems Matrix could be a little problematic in parts. I guess only time will tell how that turns out though.

On a more technical note: Discord makes me sad. While i fully recognize how it is pretty nicely done it's not exactly a very complicated piece of software and at least the basic building blocks (things like https://umurmur.net/ or https://github.com/Johni0702/mumble-web) to come up with an alternative already exist. I've played a bit with the sources of umurmur in the past and it's seriously easy to adapt and extend (i had added TCL support so i could easily add customized authorization functionality and it worked quite nicely). Mumble-Web has had some rough edges (mainly audio problems with certain browser configurations) that were a bit over my head as i am not much of a modern JS guy but i figure it likely woudln't be that much of a deal for someone who actually knows what hes doing. With some kind of inter-server communication added and the interface being a bit brushed up i think there would be some real potential there.

I'm not sure if you were replying to my query on the benefits of Discord or if this was just an observation. Is this a positive? There may be benefits to FreeBSD overall through greater exposure, but at the same time, is this the right audience? There will always be a small level of crossover (i.e. a gamer who administers company infrastructure) but I'd imagine the primary objectives of each audience are incompatible.

Sorry, i had somehow missed your post earlier today. Discord really isn't that gaming centric anymore but i still somewhat agree as in that i think it's questionable if Discords userbase is really much of a good fit.

I think it matters, particularly given the title is "The FreeBSD Project" Discord. Is this an official community, supported and/or endorsed by the FreeBSD Foundation? Is it a formal support channel? Informal? I don't have a full understanding of how representation of the project is governed, so would someone else who is similarly naieve misinterpret this as an official channel when it's not? Or is it?

I see. I had not actually checked it so i didn't notice how the the name might evoke the notion of it being officially supported. As for how things like this are actually handled i am 100% clueless, sorry.
 
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vigole

vigole

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I just learned that they are closing at the end of this month after 60 years in the business.
We actually had two of those kind of shops. One of them closed down like 5-10 years ago
I'd like to happen regular & important communication happen via open protocols & de-centralized platforms
Centralisation and corporation force is massive, but I don't believe they can succeed in building a final centralised everything [fill in the blank]. We are social animal, but we're not Eusociality. I know some people love to pretend we're Eusociality, similar to termites colonies, and also claim that ant life parallels with human societies. I think they are mistaking human with ants. They always make this fundamental mistake in their calculations. Homo sapiens are not ant, bee or termite. Sorry about that! but we're different species.
 

obsigna

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I wasn't even aware that such [sub?]culture exist i.e. The Gamers.

I didn't mean to sound judgmental. Without reading it before, I meant „Gamer" like it was written in the description of Discord on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discord_(software).

I see it like this, occasionally we are Gardeners when we cut the lawn, like occasionally we are Gamers when we play Minecraft or whatever.
 
OP
vigole

vigole

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I didn't mean to sound judgmental. Without reading it before, I meant „Gamer" like it was written in the description of Discord on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discord_(software).

I see it like this, occasionally we are a Gardeners when we cut the lawn, like occasionally we are Gamers when we play Minecraft or whatever.
No, no. my response wasn't a personal attack. it was only my observations. I myself haven't played games for years. I'm not for it nor against it. Just a regular observer!
 

ekvz

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I don't believe they can succeed in building a final centralised everything [fill in the blank].

I like your optimism but i think it's hard to predict how things will turn out in the end. There is way to many social and political factors involved that i'd want to make an absolute prediction. There is a trend right now and it seems like it's important and it's going somewhere. 100 years from now it might only exist as a footnote in some history book with reality looking vastly different than expected though.

As for humans not being comparable to ants or anything similar, i don't think i could agree more.
 

obsigna

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...
Sadly that doesn't change the fact that it's a proprietary fly trap.
...

You miss the point. Communication is 2-way (or even X-way). If you want to talk to anybody then you need to use the software which the others are using. If your aversion to a piece of software is that huge, your only choice is not to communicate.
 
OP
vigole

vigole

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I see it like this, occasionally we are Gardeners when we cut the lawn, like occasionally we are Gamers when we play Minecraft or whatever.
I quit gaming because at the time, my PC was very Low-specs. It couldn't handle running games. Then eventually I lost interest.
 
OP
vigole

vigole

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I like your optimism but i think it's hard to predict how things will turn out in the end. [...]
There is a trend right now and it seems like it's important and it's going somewhere.
Remember, they was saying all roads lead to Rome (*)
Be an optimist and at the same time be prepare.

(*) / [EDIT]: I didn't want to be disrespectful to the Rome. I love Rome (ancient Rome). Some people hate her, but they are idiots.
 

ekvz

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You miss the point. Communication is 2-way (or even X-way).

Huh? Yes? You can talk to multiple people at once but how is that important or makes me miss the point? Could you please elaborate on this?

If you want to talk to anybody then you need to use the software which the others are using. If your aversion to a piece of software is that huge, your only choice is not to communicate.

Either that or make a convincing point how using said software is a mistake which admittedly is pretty hard as to most people the only applicable measurement seems to be convenience with neither technical nor social arguments pulling much weight. I am not even that much of an open source hardliner but these kind of proprietary communication solutions are having / will have a considerable negative social impact. I know fully well that i am fighting a losing battle with option 2 (or at least a variation of it) being the most probable outcome though, don't worry.
 
OP
vigole

vigole

Daemon

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these kind of proprietary communication solutions are having / will have a considerable negative social impact.
I see a large amount of stress and anxiety among the younger people who are constantly using group chats and social media. And I can't do anything about it. But I keep whining!
 

vermaden

Son of Beastie

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You have several sites. I didn't know if the one from yours at Wordpress, from Medium or another one was the same one that showed up in my phone's news feed. It's the one I told you about that showed up on my phone, and you asked about it, because you didn't know where the traffic to that page was coming from.

The oldest one is here:

Its fully static single HTML file page ... it was not upgraded since 2008 I think. The bottom sign - © 2006 - 2020 vermaden - is genrated by JavaScript so when you will visit it in 2038, then it wil ltell you - © 2006 - 2038 vermaden :)

Then I started a blog on Blogspot ... made several posts there ... and forgot about it:

Its dead since 2013 I think ...

... and the I finally made a decision to stick to blogging with the latest one:


This one is up to date and I will post new articles there for sure :)

Hope that helps.
 
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