Things that make me go "GRrrrrrr" installing FreeBSD 13.1

andmars

andmars

Ahoi, first off: I realy want to make the transition from Arch Linux (been using it for more than 12 years now) to FreeBSD. But as much as I try, there are too many show-stoppers and things blocking me to finally use FreeBSD as my main OS. Here's a list;

1. Kernel driver for Realtek PCIe Ethernet Controllers not included in the install medium
Having an ASUS P8P67 motherboard I need realtek-re-kmod-v196.4 which is not in the install medium. Which means that after the installation I have to boot into the system, mount a usb-stick with the files on it, install it manually and make entries in the config files.
I know that Arch had the dame issues when these chipsets came out about 2 years ago, but c'mon.

2. neovim removes obs-studio...wtf?
I'm a communications trainer and create educational videos so I work with tools like, obs-studio, inkscape, kdenlive, etc.
But obs-studio prevents me from using neovim. How is this a thing? Installing one will remove the other (same is true with the game minetest).
The reason: "luajit-openresty-2.1.20220411 conflicts with luajit-2.0.5_6 on /usr/local/bin/luajit"
So they use different versions of luajit so I can't use them both on my system...wtf?

3. Strange behaviour with color-schemes
I use mutt for my e-mails and the dracula-color scheme which work fine in Arch.
Using the same config in FreeBSD all of a sudden it highlights all mail when moving up instead of just one at a time. No idea why this happens.

4. Nvidia driver and handbook
docs.freebsd.org

Chapter 5. The X Window System

This chapter describes how to install and configure Xorg on FreeBSD, which provides the open source X Window System used to provide a graphical environment
docs.freebsd.org docs.freebsd.org
The handbook describes the installation of various video cards. Since I have a modern nvidia card I installed nvidia-driver and added kld_list="nvidia-modeset" just so see the xorg-server crash.
Why does the handbook describ "Setting the Video Driver in a File" for every other card manufacturer except for nvidia? Only after I created a /usr/local/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/driver-nvidia.conf file out of desperation the xorg-server finally started.

5. Building packages from source
I'm a chess player and like to work with a database programm named scid. In Arch I can download the .zip file, unzip it, and do the trinity of "./configure", "make" and "make install". In FreeBSD I get "exec: tclsh: not found". tk/tcl installed.

Now please don't take this as me bashing FreeBSD. It's quite the opposite. I want to use FreeBSD exclusivle and maybe some of the points are mentioned are not FreeBSD's fault. And maybe I'm just too stupid to find sollutions for the points I mentioned. But at this point I'm close to giving up (again) and going back to Arch...and systemd...and a bloated kernel...and opt-out stuff...and...
Anyway...have a nice sunday :)
 
1) FreeBSD does not install things you do not need. I wouldn't need that.
2) That sounds like a problem with that software and not FreeBSD but I don't use neovim.
3) Don't know
4) Because that's what you're supposed to do and it is described there.
5) configer? tclsh? Doesn't make sense to me. Typos? Or Linux-isms
 
I agree with #2. It is a ports dependency problem.
For example:
I want to have open-motif and xblackjack on my computer. It is not possible. lesstif and open motif collide.

Code: 
pkg install xblackjack

Installed packages to be REMOVED:
    open-motif: 2.3.8_2

New packages to be INSTALLED:
    lesstif: 0.95.2_7,2
    xblackjack: 2.2_4
 
andmars said:
2. neovim removes obs-studio...wtf?
I'm a communications trainer and create educational videos so I work with tools like, obs-studio, inkscape, kdenlive, etc.
But obs-studio prevents me from using neovim. How is this a thing? Installing one will remove the other (same is true with the game minetest).
The reason: "luajit-openresty-2.1.20220411 conflicts with luajit-2.0.5_6 on /usr/local/bin/luajit"
So they use different versions of luajit so I can't use them both on my system...wtf?
Click to expand...
I'm using the 'latest' package repository. The issue with lang/luajit, lang/luajit-openresty and editors/neovim are resolved here.

editors/neovim depends now on lang/luajit-openresty:
Code: 
 % pkg info -d neovim
neovim-0.7.2:
    luajit-openresty-2.1.20220411
    unibilium-2.1.0
    tree-sitter-0.20.7
    msgpack-3.3.0
    luv-1.43.0.0
    libvterm-0.1.1
    libuv-1.44.2
    libtermkey-0.22
    gettext-runtime-0.21

No conflict with multimedia/obs-studio.
 
andmars said:
Yes, but that version is pretty old and buggy unfortunately...
Click to expand...

Well then its time that you need to learn how to use the ports framework, updating the port and submit an update for the maintainer ;)

docs.freebsd.org

FreeBSD Porter's Handbook

Essential reading if you plan on providing a port of a third party piece of software
docs.freebsd.org docs.freebsd.org

Just checking it out and building it works here and there easily but its not recommended and the ports framework includes many knobs that can save headache (for example setting build dir to /usr/local/share instead of /usr/share).
 
T-Daemon said:
I'm using the 'latest' package repository. The issue with lang/luajit, lang/luajit-openresty and editors/neovim are resolved here.

editors/neovim depends now on lang/luajit-openresty:
Code: 
 % pkg info -d neovim
neovim-0.7.2:
    luajit-openresty-2.1.20220411
    unibilium-2.1.0
    tree-sitter-0.20.7
    msgpack-3.3.0
    luv-1.43.0.0
    libvterm-0.1.1
    libuv-1.44.2
    libtermkey-0.22
    gettext-runtime-0.21

No conflict with multimedia/obs-studio.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected, still conflicts.

/usr/ports/multimedia/obs-studio/Makefile
Rich (BB code): 
LIB_DEPENDS_amd64=      libluajit-5.1.so:lang/luajit
LIB_DEPENDS_armv7=      libluajit-5.1.so:lang/luajit
LIB_DEPENDS_i386=       libluajit-5.1.so:lang/luajit
LIB_DEPENDS_powerpc=    libluajit-5.1.so:lang/luajit
LIB_DEPENDS_powerpc64=  libluajit-5.1.so:lang/luajit-openresty
LIB_DEPENDS_powerpc64le=        libluajit-5.1.so:lang/luajit-openresty

If library dependency works for powerpc64*, it should work also for amd64.

Sorry for the noise.
 
I understand the sentiment of #1. I wish there were live installers with things like nonfree firmware preinstalled, even if they were unofficial. Technically GhostBSD does this and it should be really easy to make a FreeBSD iso with extras but Im surprised to not find any online. I have a horrible monitor that I would gladly throw away if I had a replacement, but it will not show anything on screen until the graphics card firmware is loaded, so I have to pull out an older and crappier monitor to install FreeBSD or make any changes in the bootloader. Would not fix the bootloader not showing anything but would the installer.
 
Neovim is a "more, more, I want more!" kind of Vim. If you don't need lua or luajit (which I am going to assume is likely), and you don't need all the other *shite* it chucks in; perhaps just use Vim?

NVidia's Xorg driver is documented in the handbook, including the changes to xorg.conf.

https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/x11/#x-compiz-video-card

But yes, it is in the wrong place. The handbook has regressed since they changed the format to make it more "user-friendly".

So borrow the nvidia-modeset instructions from earlier, and include the Driver "nvidia" from there and you end up with the complete instructions ;)
 
A simple workaround for the first issue (needing a driver that isn't installed to get networking): use a supported usb-to-ethernet dongle, or "internet sharing" from a mobile phone to get the machine onto the net so you can install the necessary network driver.
It always helps to be prepared.
 
Assuming it's a simple hardware config, like a PCI Nvidia graphics card, not a laptop with wierd Intel/Nvidia hybrid stuff, this is the simplest way to get X working with Nvidia card.
install the correct nvidia-driver package based on your specific hardware
add nvidia-modeset to the kld_list lines in /etc/rc.conf
Create a file in /usr/local/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d, named driver-nvidia.conf with the following content:
Section "Device" Identifier "NVIDIA Card" VendorName "NVIDIA Corporation" Driver "nvidia" EndSection

That's all I've had to do for a while, the big piece is installing the correct nvidia-driver package, which is based on your specific hardware.
 
hunter0one said:
I wish there were live installers with things like nonfree firmware preinstalled, even if they were unofficial.
Click to expand...

Then you want to turn FreeBSD into Linux where things get installed for you and you have to either accept it or uninstall it and install what you really want. Letting you install what you really want is what's great about FreeBSD.

And what is it you really want pre-installed? And what about the people who don't like what gets pre-installed and then come here to complain about things that make them go "GRrrrr" cause they have to do all the work to get what they really want.
 
drhowarddrfine said:
Then you want to turn FreeBSD into Linux where things get installed for you and you have to either accept it or uninstall it and install what you really want. Letting you install what you really want is what's great about FreeBSD.\
Click to expand...
No, having alternative ISOs with firmware preinstalled does not turn FreeBSD into Linux. I don't know how you came to that conclusion but it would hurt literally nobody to have another (key word: another) image with firmware for people who can't get through the installation without it (i.e someone with a laptop that needs a wifi driver).

Or let's just feed into people's first impression that FreeBSD has bad hardware support.
 
Debian traditionally did this.
If any of the hardware in your system requires non-free firmware to be loaded with the device driver, you can use one of the tarballs of common firmware packages or download an unofficial image including these non-free firmwares. Instructions how to use the tarballs and general information about loading firmware during an installation can be found in the Installation Guide.
Click to expand...

But Debian recently decided to stop caring and just whack all the dubious software on the images (which I imagine is the reason for this query). However there is no technical reason why unofficial installation images aren't made and released on torrents. Other than the fact that it isn't hard to put the firmware on a usb stick (5 second job) so no-one has bothered.
 
hunter0one said:
it would hurt literally nobody to have another (key word: another) image with firmware for people who can't get through the installation without it (i.e someone with a laptop that needs a wifi driver).
Click to expand...

So another "distro"? What would you put in? What would you leave out? How many people will start FreeBSD hopping to find their preferred one? Or dump FreeBSD altogether because the versions don't have what they want.

Just install what you want. That's where FreeBSD shines. FreeBSD is not for everyman. If one can't figure out how to install the driver they need or software they want then Windows is for them.
 
I would say that many Linuxes don't even come with wpa_supplicant in their base install. So we are ahead of the game here when it comes to user-friendlyness of home networking.
 
drhowarddrfine said:
So another "distro"? What would you put in? What would you leave out?
Click to expand...
I've already said this several times: firmware. Like what kpedersen said Debian does where there is a free and non-free iso but this doesn't make FreeBSD more like Debian or Linux in general, it just makes it possible for more people to install FreeBSD. Firmware is something some people need to actually get through installing FreeBSD and installing what they want. How can you install everything yourself if you can't see the installer or afterwards can't install packages/ports from the internet because your particular hardware does not have the firmware it needs?

kpedersen said:
Other than the fact that it isn't hard to put the firmware on a usb stick (5 second job) so no-one has bothered.
Click to expand...
I don't see how someone hasn't done this yet and released a torrent, having something like that to send new users to would lead to more successful FreeBSD installs.
 
andmars said:
1. Kernel driver for Realtek PCIe Ethernet Controllers not included in the install medium
Click to expand...

This problem is always somewhere. When I was a linux user i only had a USB wifi adapter with the rtl8812au chip and i had to think about how to get the kernel module while it is included in FreeBSD.
 
hunter0one You would turn a FreeBSD install into a bloated mess like Windows which throws everything and the kitchen sink into an install. People who want to install FreeBSD know what to do. And if one cannot install due to hardware problems then one is using the wrong hardware or downloading the wrong iso.

How does one download the iso but then complain they can't install from the internet?
 
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