reddit vs discord

It's not entirely pushing to fragment. A more positive perspective:
  • Reddit, huge user base – pull people to a FreeBSD area
  • Discord, huge user base – pull people to BSD and FreeBSD areas
  • X huge user base, the platform become troublesome, some people switch to the fediverse, e.g. Mastodon – pull people to FreeBSD-friendly areas.
Accept the diversity, make the best of existing user bases.
Arguably if reddit didn't exist for the "lower effort" users; this forum would have attracted them in one cohesive place instead where they can be best helped.

Likewise when discord disappears, anyone truly interested in FreeBSD will (already) be on IRC.
 
Arguably if reddit didn't exist for the "lower effort" users; this forum would have attracted them in one place cohesive place instead where they can be best helped.

Likewise when discord disappears, anyone truly interested in FreeBSD will (already) be on IRC.
Why do you think of Discord/Reddit usage as low effort? I am curious, because while it doesn't necessary rivals IRC or anything in terms of being on topic, its a great place to talk with the rest of the community and building networking/better communication throughout the project.
if #lobby channel is where you're getting this piece of information, its meant to be a social space, I have personally been against using the learning categories for low effort posts, and its something I have constantly noted people at.

to be honest, I do not understand the hate towards discord or, honestly, any new social media communication platform, as a open source community it should be seen as tools to attract more contributors and not a pure principle.


while it does have its disadvantages, there's two things that make Discord stand out above other platforms like Reddit and TikTok.

1: Real time messages, just like IRC, with full logging on for everyone for transparency.
2: it attracts a younger audience that otherwise might not be interested in learning FreeBSD alone.
3: free non-limited voice capabilities and filtering options

especially the 2nd and 3rd part is what makes Discord so special for hosting events that otherwise would be on niche platform (akin to skype, teams, and such), it opens the opportunity for any member to join without any limitations behind a paywall/invitation, while also being a popular platform for young people who might be interested in fields close to FreeBSD.
 
Why do you think of Discord/Reddit usage as low effort?
  • Very minimal navigation - you land in the lobby of the FreeBSD discord server, and get to post right away, after just a quick glance. Compared to Forums, you navigate to the thread of interest, read the thread, decide if you have something to add, decide if the thread contains useful information, think about formulating the question properly...
  • Very minimal rules to follow on Discord/Reddit, as opposed to the Forums. Like sticking to the topic, following good netiquette, etc. Forums do have stricter rule enforcement than Discord/Reddit. It does take quite a bit of effort to police your own behavior while getting useful information.
  • On Discord/Reddit, you may get some info quickly and easily, but the quality/usefulness of that info is frankly questionable, because nobody puts in any effort to curate/verify that info.
  • Reddit attracts people who are reluctant to use FreeBSD on surprisingly stupid grounds - like the mascot Beastie having horns on its head is somehow against somebody's religious teachings. Or on Discord, there are people who complain that manpages are poor documentation because they are not written like a tutorial. Making such posts on Reddit/Discord is quick and easy. For about 5 minutes, you're exposed as fish out of water, and then your post scrolls away into oblivion, only to be found if somebody bothers to use the search function correctly. On Forums, because of the technical implementation, a stupid post is much easier to refer to, and to call the user out on that. When users know they will be called out on stupid behavior, they do put in more effort to police themselves. But when users know that they will only get a mild nudge for stupid behavior before it scrolls away into oblivion - there's less incentive to put in the effort to police yourself.


especially the 2nd and 3rd part is what makes Discord so special for hosting events that otherwise would be on niche platform (akin to skype, teams, and such)
Skype and Teams are anything but niche... I was sideswiped by the recent Teams outage at work...
 
Why do you think of Discord/Reddit usage as low effort?
Its a casual medium, many people are already on there chatting to friends as part of their collection of generic social media, it doesn't take any effort to post in random channels. Random channels with a "passing interest" are also advertised to other channels, attracting fire and forget behaviors.

Particularly useful for i.e companies to target. Things like tiktok, reddit, facebook, twitter, discord, instagram, etc don't take much commitment from users to engage with their advertising posts for example.

A forum takes targeted interest and "commitment" to sign up. Once done, this doesn't also open you up to other related forums. This makes a surprising difference.

Its basically the difference between attending a Comic Con and i.e EuroBSDCon

1: Real time messages, just like IRC, with full logging on for everyone for transparency.
2: it attracts a younger audience that otherwise might not be interested in learning FreeBSD alone.
3: free non-limited voice capabilities and filtering options
IRC has logging via the use of bots. Something like this. Both are optional.
I disagree that discord attracts a younger audience. Many members of IRC started using it when they were ~14.
Voice capabilities are useful for playing about on games, not discussing operating systems.
 
Discord is basically IRC. Everything is constantly new. If something gets old to Discord, it goes in a rule or a FAQ or something. If is kind of old, you should get enough search terms to look in the right place, if not an answer.
One very big difference is that anyone can run an IRC server. All Discord "servers" are run by a private, for profit company.

I am not anti-capitalist, but I try to remember what capitalism is: a ruthlessly efficient engine for generating shareholder profits. Is that what you want as the arbiter of what you can and cannot say online?

Imagine a future where all interpersonal interactions on the Internet happen only over Discord. Do you really want them to control who you are online?

I use Discord to talk to my kids. When in Rome, and all that.
 
One very big difference is that anyone can run an IRC server. All Discord "servers" are run by a private, for profit company.
Not exactly... you can run your own private Discord server, too. Just sign up for one, and you'll get a template server that is hosted on Discord-owned hardware. The server you run (With your own topic, rules, etc) will be listed on discord.com. Some features are paid subscription only. Discord only makes the topic server reliably available. IRC servers can be run on your own hardware, with a consumer-grade Internet connection. Discord servers - yeah, you largely call the shots, you can start it and close it, but you get the backing of a huge, private, for-profit company that owns the metal.

Some servers are run by commercial outfits that pay a fee to Discord. FreeBSD Foundation pays a fee to Discord, too, BTW.


Imagine a future where all interpersonal interactions on the Internet happen only over Discord. Do you really want them to control who you are online?
yeah, I wouldn't want Discord to be the only option. But there's another way to look at this: Because Discord is out there, and surprisingly convenient, it did inspire creation of alternate communication platforms that give you more control. Implementations of such platforms are actually in Ports - think ownCloud/NextCloud (plus related plugins), Mastodon, Matrix - you can install all that on your own FreeBSD machine, and be in control. The price for that is that you spend money on enough metal/bandwidth, time installing/maintaining, and you still have to promote it among the people you wanna communicate with. Who wants to install an extra 100-MB app on their phone just because you have this newfangled way that you prefer to be contacted at? Especially if your neighborhood has a power outage?

Not to mention that Discord already had its own Assange 2.0 incident recently - which goes to show that content is not policed that hard.
 
Its a casual medium, many people are already on there chatting to friends as part of their collection of generic social media, it doesn't take any effort to post in random channels. Random channels with a "passing interest" are also advertised to other channels, attracting fire and forget behaviors.

Particularly useful for i.e companies to target. Things like tiktok, reddit, facebook, twitter, discord, instagram, etc don't take much commitment from users to engage with their advertising posts for example.

A forum takes targeted interest and "commitment" to sign up. Once done, this doesn't also open you up to other related forums. This makes a surprising difference.

Its basically the difference between attending a Comic Con and i.e EuroBSDCon


IRC has logging via the use of bots. Something like this. Both are optional.
I disagree that discord attracts a younger audience. Many members of IRC started using it when they were ~14.
Voice capabilities are useful for playing about on games, not discussing operating systems.


we have many members who do in fact use the discord channels as testing ground, or to communicate their messages across in real-time in a manner that is semi public.
#gaming and #kernel, #documentation were all examples of this-

what I see when I look at the forums is a place that can easily create a toxic- egoistic tone. if this place is meant for quality posting, then why is graham being silenced for speaking and going into statistics that are absolutely relevant for the conversation, since we so far talked about demographic?

drama aside, I do not think IRC attracting a lot of 14~ have anything to do with Discord, as I can attest that a lot of our users do not prefer the forums either.

we have many users, me included, who never touched the forums simply because it does not interest us, voice capabilities on discord helps me a lot as a dyslexic person, and I could never wait a few hours until someone replies when I am asking how they're doing 3 minutes ago. What makes discord is the community and not the platform, I agree that we shouldn't let Discord be the only platform, but its not like that's what we're proposing, I just wish we could have more veterans on the Discord who help us manage things such as the project events.

I want to keep updating the forums on the Discord, in hopes that there's much less stress factor on beginners when they start there vs on here.
by the way, discord does not have advertisement on the page, they monetize by giving out perks, discord servers themselves have to advertise if anything, and so far we have not done anything similar.
 
Not exactly... you can run your own private Discord server, too. Just sign up for one, and you'll get a template server that is hosted on Discord-owned hardware.
In IRC speech, that is called owning a room (or collection of rooms).

Crazy how they are completely misusing that term.

The FreeBSD Foundation is paying to run a chatroom there? They are clearly being donated too much money.
 
The low effort also means its too easy for just anyone to get in and make comments that don't belong. Then you get kids, lids and space cadets who need to go elsewhere.

The best forum I ever belonged to was one where everyone was required to use their real name and have evidence of who we were. It was the most technically pure and civil place I ever visited.
 
while it does have its disadvantages, there's two things that make Discord stand out above other platforms like Reddit and TikTok.

1: Real time messages, just like IRC, with full logging on for everyone for transparency.
2: it attracts a younger audience that otherwise might not be interested in learning FreeBSD alone.
3: free non-limited voice capabilities and filtering options
So, you said two things, then list three, and did not put in the effort to correct that. An example of 'low effort'... on Discord, you're not expected to scroll very far back to understand what the conversation is about, it's easier to jump right in. Not to mention that:
  • both Reddit and TikTok do have logging and search capabilities - you just have to know how to use them. Discord is no different in that regard :p
  • both reddit and tiktok attract teenagers due to low barriers to entry. Yeah, those kids are unlikely to know what FreeBSD is. In that particular regard, how is Discord any different?
  • What filtering options are you even talking about?

what I see when I look at the forums is a place that can easily create a toxic- egoistic tone. if this place is meant for quality posting, then why is graham being silenced for speaking and going into statistics that are absolutely relevant for the conversation, since we so far talked about demographic?
You might want to read the rest of the thread a bit more carefully. No, he's not being silenced. A few users (myself included) did call grahamperrin out for posting comments that seemed out of the blue (in relation to the rest of the thread), and offered a bit of coaching. There's a difference between constructive suggestions and outright contempt at lack of self-awareness. I guess the latter does come across as 'toxic' to Gen Z... 😩
 
The low effort also means its too easy for just anyone to get in and make comments that don't belong. Then you get kids, lids and space cadets who need to go elsewhere.

The best forum I ever belonged to was one where everyone was required to use their real name and have evidence of who we were. It was the most technically pure and civil place I ever visited.
If you police the support platforms too much it just puts people off. Someone with a spark to give FreeBSD a try shouldn't be put off by people moaning that they've posted in the wrong place, especially if the one commenting on it being "wrong" isn't a moderator. It's just off-putting and pedantic. Better things in the world to think about in my view.

It's impossible to have a "high effort" post (by what standards anyway), say, if you're a kid with a developing flair for computers and curious about operating systems, only being allowed an hour a night on the family computer, with no knowledge or experience.
 
If you police the support platforms too much it just puts people off. Someone with a spark to give FreeBSD a try shouldn't be put off by people moaning that they've posted in the wrong place, especially if the one commenting on it being "wrong" isn't a moderator. It's just off-putting and pedantic. Better things in the world to think about in my view.
Pedantism is what made FreeBSD even possible in the first place. Otherwise we wouldn't have any userland utiities like awk(1) or zfs(8)... Programming is predicated on being pedantic about what component goes where, and what version gets released. Compilers can complain, y'know.
It's impossible to have a "high effort" post (by what standards anyway), say, if you're a kid with a developing flair for computers and curious about operating systems, only being allowed an hour a night on the family computer, with no knowledge or experience.
How about coherent communication in English? I'm not talking Oxford-level or Harvard... or even MIT, birthplace of Xorg... but you gotta be able to read and write at the level of producing IETF RFCs, and know what those are if you are to have a coherent conversation on the Forums... 😏
Edit: Probably should re-write it like this: I disagree... Even if someone has the ability to do something interesting on the computer, they still have to be able to communicate coherently and respectfully, and have the maturity to deal with misunderstandings and setbacks appropriately.
 
So, you said two things, then list three, and did not put in the effort to correct that. An example of 'low effort'... on Discord, you're not expected to scroll very far back to understand what the conversation is about, it's easier to jump right in. Not to mention that:
  • both Reddit and TikTok do have logging and search capabilities - you just have to know how to use them. Discord is no different in that regard :p
  • both reddit and tiktok attract teenagers due to low barriers to entry. Yeah, those kids are unlikely to know what FreeBSD is. In that particular regard, how is Discord any different?
  • What filtering options are you even talking about?


You might want to read the rest of the thread a bit more carefully. No, he's not being silenced. A few users (myself included) did call grahamperrin out for posting comments that seemed out of the blue (in relation to the rest of the thread), and offered a bit of coaching. There's a difference between constructive suggestions and outright contempt at lack of self-awareness. I guess the latter does come across as 'toxic' to Gen Z... 😩
And with this I leave this conversation to itself.
I however feel obliged to comment that, calling someone's arguments and values in the entirety of the post for low effort simply because of a spelling, or writers' age is narrow minded and, ironically, childish, considering the topic.
 
And with this I leave this conversation to itself.
I however feel obliged to comment that, calling someone's arguments and values in the entirety of the post for low effort simply because of a spelling, or writers' age is narrow minded and, ironically, childish, considering the topic.
Isaac Asimov was surprisingly accurate in his famous quote...

But y'know, even geezers can be complete morons (and celebrate that... 😩
 
… say, if you're a kid with a developing flair for computers and curious about operating systems, …

Some time ago we had (in Reddit) a series of brief posts from a student.

I didn't ask their age, the posts were unusual, the end result (after one month) was a working desktop environment on a low-spec, low-cost notebook.

Who knows? Maybe this person will become the new kid at University with a unique system that catches someone's eye.
 

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Flashback to 2015:

… People on the Internet can actually be rational and reasonable.

The then moderators, plus one more recent person:
Fast-forward to 2024. If anyone knows the real identity, or an alternative contactable identity, for any of those three people, please:
  • privately, ask them to contact me.
(Do not disclose their true or alternative identities.)

Thanks


@o0o Maledictus @dargh – one matching ID, nothing here since 2010.
 

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The FreeBSD Foundation is paying to run a chatroom there? They are clearly being donated too much money.

Indeed, that needs to be confirmed.

There are lots of people trying to support the OS, run it, test it, fix the bugs, help the people. And there is a foundation asking these people for money, and then apparently spreading that money among the super-rich. That is an interesting reversal of the Robin-Hood-approach. But it would explain a few things.

I don't really know what reddit is, I never used it, and when I follow a link from here, I find that all my computers are banned from it.
I tried to use discord once, but it is very difficult to use, I didn`t get along, wasn't able to properly layout and format my articles.
 
Indeed, that needs to be confirmed.

There are lots of people trying to support the OS, run it, test it, fix the bugs, help the people. And there is a foundation asking these people for money, and then apparently spreading that money among the super-rich. That is an interesting reversal of the Robin-Hood-approach. But it would explain a few things.

I don't really know what reddit is, I never used it, and when I follow a link from here, I find that all my computers are banned from it.
I tried to use discord once, but it is very difficult to use, I didn`t get along, wasn't able to properly layout and format my articles.
Uhhh... Discord is a platform for chatting, like IRC was back in the day. Easy and immediate back-and-forth (which is as close to in-person conversation as it gets) is a pretty decent investment, considering that the alternative is to buy plane tickets and put people in hotel rooms and feed them, entertain them, and to buy spots on TV and radio.

Discord is not meant for posting articles, it functions more like IRC. If you want to post articles, Forums are a better choice. Nothing prevents you from posting a lengthy article here (provided you follow the Forum rules) and then posting a link during a Discord chat. It's basically using technology as it was intended. 😩
 
Uhhh... Discord is a platform for chatting, like IRC was back in the day. Easy and immediate back-and-forth (which is as close to in-person conversation as it gets) is a pretty decent investment, considering that the alternative is to buy plane tickets and put people in hotel rooms and feed them, entertain them, and to buy spots on TV and radio.

Discord is not meant for posting articles, it functions more like IRC. If you want to post articles, Forums are a better choice.
That makes sense now. A chat platform with all the nifty colours and icons.

But it wasn't on me to choose, but rather those people who decided on providing discord as their support platform. And You know as well as me that a support request should contain some structured and useful data, like what you're trying to do, what doesn't work, and what's the environment.
 
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