Please create a -current forum

… a prefix, which unfortunately …

Tags will be ideal – a topic can have more than one. For example, a topic might gain all of these tags (alphabetical order and lowercase are enforced):

Tags are not ideal 𠄶– they are missing from listings, underused (missing does not encourage use), and where used, they're typically overlooked.

… denial of attachments, …

Maybe exaggeration (sorry); <https://forums.freebsd.org/posts/554806> reminds me that on six occasions, I made plain text attachments.

I can't recall whether plain text triggered moderation.

… some things about hardware/features can be discussed and searched here quicker. …

Many things, at least in theory. Quicker is also nice, in theory.
 
[DEVELOPMENT section of forums]
A quick look there gives me the impression that a thread about -current would be at home there! It would be a good mental exercise for participants to frame the topic and discussion so that the thread does not become a catch-all for attitudes and politics.
Most people aren't interested in whole of CURRENT itself, but the drivers and features within CURRENT. So, while I believe limited topics should be about what's within CURRENT, it shouldn't be about choosing CURRENT to select that system for most users.

There's already two hardware sections: system hardware and peripheral hardware. Still, I can see driver and feature development/compiling/debugging/installing/configuring added to DEVELOPMENT if enough of that comes up. A book about driver development is already listed there.

I think most can agree on: we don't want to see people asking how to install CURRENT or asking basic questions about it.
 

I'm not sure that it's a good fit for the primary interest groups.

Kernel development, writing drivers, coding, and questions regarding FreeBSD internals.

This simple question was about none of those things:

Please: has anyone successfully installed x11/kde4 from ports with the most recent FreeBSD 12.0-CURRENT?


A yes or no answer might have sufficed.
 
I've seen people who don't post a lot here, but are clearly not newbies when it comes to FreeBSD, and would be comfortable with -current. Those people do seem aware of what they're getting into.
Well, of course, but that doesn't mean this forum should change from a user's forum to a developer's forum. There are some good C programmers here but this is not my first choice when I have a programming question about C.
 
Where should people ask how to install STABLE? Where should people ask basic questions about STABLE?
Anywhere on this forums because -STABLE is supported here.

If you want support on these forums, run either a supported version of the -RELEASE branch (for proven, stable, solid installations) or of the -STABLE branch
 
I guess not,

Now, let's consider the possibility likelihood that installation of CURRENT is no more difficult than installation of STABLE.

How might it be more difficult to answer a question about installation of CURRENT?



"… resources are scarce, …"

I don't doubt that it was true in mid-2013.

Eight years later: there's never a shortage of human resources to argue against helping people.
 
I'm sympathetic to people's concerns, but some rationales are highly dubious.

I mean, for example, why should a forum not accept a basic question about something?
 
I've really had enough now of this childish insisting in unreadable posts...

Yes, installing -CURRENT is pretty much the same process as installing -STABLE. But only with -CURRENT, you have to expect anything to break badly with any little upgrade. And you have to be prepared to deal with it and take precautions.

THIS IS JUST NOT THE POINT.

The point is, although you could think of some traffic concerning -CURRENT that would fit in here, most traffic would be much better suited on the ML and bugzilla. Nothing changed about that.

Whether or not to still try how it would work out having a -CURRENT section on here is the operators' decision, that's pretty much all there is about.
 
We accept "basic" questions, but they are typically applicable to release versions as well. Anything specific to CURRENT is likely some kind of a bug or not yet completely stable feature. It's impossible to competently deal with those issues without a sufficiency similar hardware and software setup, which is just not going to happen with CURRENT.
 
Well, of course, but that doesn't mean this forum should change from a user's forum to a developer's forum. There are some good C programmers here but this is not my first choice when I have a programming question about C.
That's a good point. In all honesty, I agree, this is probably a good thing to do from many perspectives. It's just that I got kind of used to the FreeBSD forums, I like to hang out here. :p
 
Yes, that's the 2013 point of reference.

It's strange to think that user experience might not matter.

Things can matter and still not be high enough on the resource allocation list.

"… resources are scarce, …"

I don't doubt that it was true in mid-2013.

Eight years later: there's never a shortage of human resources to argue against helping people.

:rolleyes: Helping people with tips and tricks for -CURRENT that will be obsolete and useless once a release is cut is a really big waste of time for people trying to get the release cut. You can't make FreeBSD allocate resources here. But hey, if people decide they want to help each other fight against the intentional, constant churn of stability that is -CURRENT, they can do that... somewhere else. Preferably, where they could improve the stability but Reddit sounds fine for this sort of chatter of short-lived usefulness.

This thread has not proven the 2013 reasoning wrong or outdated.
 
:rolleyes: Helping people with tips and tricks for -CURRENT that will be obsolete and useless once a release is cut is a really big waste of time for people trying to get the release cut. You can't make FreeBSD allocate resources here. But hey, if people decide they want to help each other fight against the intentional, constant churn of stability that is -CURRENT, they can do that... somewhere else. Preferably, where they could improve the stability but Reddit sounds fine for this sort of chatter of short-lived usefulness.
It takes paying attention and reading this completely to understand your point, msplsh ... and I do agree with it. At some point, you gotta decide if you want to follow rules of the place you already have, or set up shop in a different place. 😩
 
I understand. One hundred percent of the help will be instantly obsolete and useless. Nothing less. One hundred. Everything.
If you're gonna lead with unproven things like FreeBSD has the resources to have some devs monitor, correlate and integrate comments about -CURRENT on this forum into existing and new issues, then I get to lead with that.
 
If you're gonna lead with unproven things like FreeBSD has the resources to have some devs monitor, correlate and integrate comments about -CURRENT on this forum into existing and new issues …

Of course not, but thanks, again, for thinking so creatively. I always like people to wonder aloud whether I have in mind something that I never had in mind. It's wonderful, truly wonderful.

I forgot to add, nothing ever written about CURRENT for one person who needs help will ever prove useful to a future user. I wonder whether that's what you have in mind.
 
Again, most of utility of this place comes from users simply comparing their existing experience with running FreeBSD (e. g. is foo broken for me or for everyone? and so on), that's why straying from defaults is heavily discouraged. If a question requires people to build a VM with matching FreeBSD version compiled from source and bunch of custom ports in order to try a few hypotheses, it's already out of scope.
 
Because CURRENT is associated with bugs, and troubleshooting, I believe the threads about it need to be in DEVELOPMENT. Not about CURRENT itself, but about features used CURRENT, so I believe CURRENT discussions should be allowed there. The guideline for CURRENT says to use the mailing lists where DEVELOPERS are, and there's a section on the forum that's conveniently called DEVELOPMENT. This makes sense, and those who post there have an expectation to know the basics of FreeBSD and be prepared to use the mailing lists.

Even if it's not described currently in the DEVELOPMENT section, I believe that hardware/drivers can be added as a section, or at the very least a better description and including clarifying rule to well thought out exceptions and expectations. Features of CURRENT could remain in the existing section. I believe that DEVELOPMENT should include when something is troubleshooted about CURRENT, but not be limited to CURRENT. It would be about the hardware itself, and it would be allowed across CURRENT, PORTS or if it makes its way to STABLE. The topic would be about drivers/hardware.

My expectation would be:
Does this hardware work on any FreeBSD?
I at the very least know how to use ports and how to install a basic system.
I tried it on STABLE first, but it didn't work there so I tried it on CURRENT. or I read it was only supported on CURRENT, so I started there.
Then, while it's about CURRENT, the topic isn't about CURRENT itself but the status of a driver/hardware.
The people on it are able to submit to the mailing lists, and preferably file bug reports.
Then, because the expectation is that there's no guarantee it will make it to STABLE, someone can update, oh, it didn't make it to STABLE. Now everyone knows, and everyone knows the expectations, and there's no guarantee on the hardware drivers.


This is the kind of topic that has been done with graphics cards, and I already see can happen with multimedia keys on the keyboard. There may be some interest in this for newer storage drivers.

All supported versions of FreeBSD plus CURRENT are moving targets. CURRENT may be the fastest moving target so limiting topics to it is discouraged. It's about which features stay or are around the longest.

I see a plus where a developer can ask others on the forum to try out a hardware driver on STABLE or even CURRENT, or on a supported RELEASE where the driver is built from ports. Then, they report back their experiences on the mailing lists, bugreports and forums as long as they are relevant and helpful.
 
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