Solved Paid FreeBSD

[jjrabbit]

Belittling potential users does not improve the prospects for FreeBSD.

Potential users? I'm curious what kind of user you think would improve the prospects for FreeBSD.

We have various GUIs.

Yes, everyone who has used FreeBSD for more than two seconds knows that. My point was I don't know if having a GUI bundled with the base OS (I'm assuming that's what the question entails?) was a good idea.

If you want a GUI there's nothing stopping those people.

An improved UX is not a downfall.

I'm sorry, I got a little carried away.

For the record, I don't know that paying somebody to develop a GUI necessarily equates to an improved UX. I would like to think so though.

But since you quoted me, what's up with you replying to every single thread on this forum? Do you work for a fortune 500 or something? Grow at any costs necessary?

Let me guess, you're very very busy right now

 

[patmaddox]

I think this thread is not about producing a new GUI, but simply making it easier for people to select from and configure the current GUI options. Right now, you read the handbook on X / Desktop Environments and follow the instructions. The original post is about developing a TUI-style script that presents those options and follows the instructions.

 

[LibreQuest]

I think this thread is not about producing a new GUI, but simply making it easier for people to select from and configure the current GUI options. Right now, you read the handbook on X / Desktop Environments and follow the instructions. The original post is about developing a TUI-style script that presents those options and follows the instructions.

Generally, that's what I intended, yes. A GUI or TUI to select options that would otherwise be available in the handbook. And perhaps a package selector as well that would otherwise be available in ports or packages. There no proposed improvements at all but rather a different approach. I wasn't even thinking of a auto configuration necessarily like is available with GhostBSD. Just a different approach to system configuration on installation was about the depth of the proposal.

EDIT: I didn't propose the idea as something that is needed for success of the project. But I was framing it as it would literally be, an alternative method for configuring the system. I don't see it as necessary for success but a luxury for users who have a preference for such an installation system, which they should pay to be developed and could be managed by the foundation. Just to clarify.

 

[blackhole]

FreeBSD's installation only deals with the base system, with the option to install the ports tree, source, etc. pkg(8) is then bootstrapped for the installation of binary packages, which do not form part of the base.

X.org and windows managers, for example, are not part of base, hence why they are not facilitated in the installer.

I personally don't see any sense in making drastic changes in that area, which would cost a lot of development time, just to facilitate a preconfigured desktop, for those who were previously unwilling to make the effort. It's a slippery slope - you start with that and then it moves onto preconfiguring everything, graphical package managers, etc...

However "good" the result, your target demographic will only compare it to 'buntu or Windows or macOS.

In my humble opinion, FreeBSD is not a consumer focused product and should stay out of that particular race. Preconfigured and "automagic" stuff is senseless, unless the OS is sold/licensed for profit.

 

[unitrunker]

I think this thread is not about producing a new GUI, but simply making it easier for people to select from and configure the current GUI options. Right now, you read the handbook on X / Desktop Environments and follow the instructions. The original post is about developing a TUI-style script that presents those options and follows the instructions.

I think more awareness of desktop installer would alleviate that.

 

[kpedersen]

I think more awareness of desktop installer would alleviate that.

The fun thing is that the desktop installer doesn't cater to the needs of a lot of people wanting a desktop. Either they want a different desktop toolkit or a different default background wallpaper, etc.

... and yet they magically believe that an official FreeBSD desktop offering will be exactly tailored to them? It won't. They will still waddle off and leave the mess to maintain.

- In general I agree though. Perhaps the FreeBSD foundation could write one of their flashy blog articles about the community maintained desktop installer?

 

[Crivens]

The fun thing is that the desktop installer doesn't cater to the needs of a lot of people wanting a desktop. Either they want a different desktop toolkit or a different default background wallpaper, etc.

I think the problem is the choice falacy. When you have only one choice like in Windows/MacOS/..., you go "Meh, whatever". Once you have choice the squabble starts.

 

[astyle]

A Fortune 500 company can probably afford to sponsor someone full-time to develop a custom graphical installer (and other UIs) that work with FreeBSD. Trouble is, it's unlikely to be something that will be shared outside of the company.

And those companies tend to have their hands full just managing their own, existing infrastructure - without hiring someone to mess around on something that is frankly not gonna make an obvious difference to the bottom line. That's my assessment as someone who works for one, and has a front-row seat to the show.

 

[LibreQuest]

FreeBSD's installation only deals with the base system, with the option to install the ports tree, source, etc. pkg(8) is then bootstrapped for the installation of binary packages, which do not form part of the base.

X.org and windows managers, for example, are not part of base, hence why they are not facilitated in the installer.

I personally don't see any sense in making drastic changes in that area, which would cost a lot of development time, just to facilitate a preconfigured desktop, for those who were previously unwilling to make the effort. It's a slippery slope - you start with that and then it moves onto preconfiguring everything, graphical package managers, etc...

However "good" the result, your target demographic will only compare it to 'buntu or Windows or macOS.

In my humble opinion, FreeBSD is not a consumer focused product and should stay out of that particular race. Preconfigured and "automagic" stuff is senseless, unless the OS is sold/licensed for profit.

I am no trying to be adversarial but I noticed there are a lot of things that are per-configured in the system. Networking is configured during install and automatically starts on first boot along with various other packages that can be selected during startup regarding time settings, power settings and other various configuration options.

I wasn't proposing a pre-built "desktop" or workstation experience rather an expanded installation process that would include the various options as outlined in the handbook.

I'm not necessarily advocating for this or discouraging it. I just thought there may be an interest given the different opinions from forum users that I have noticed.

I also believe the target audience is far broader than those who you have mentioned. I for example would find such an installation process useful for doing things I typically do on a system setup. I don't know that it would be a time saver however so I may or may not actually use it. But I could conceive of it being useful.

I would agree it's not needed but an expanded installation process could prove useful for some users.

EDIT: Going by the poll there are at least 5 people who would likely find it to be useful. Going by the poll numbers it's clearly not realistic. But still interesting to discuss and find what other users think about the topic.

 

[kpedersen]

EDIT: Going by the poll there are at least 5 people who would likely find it to be useful. Going by the poll numbers it's clearly not realistic. But still interesting to discuss and find what other users think about the topic.

Can those 5 be catered for without damaging the majorities experience?

For example, if you added more complexity to the installer, those 5 will be benefitted but suddenly those 42 users who were previously happy, are now receiving a more convoluted installation experience.

So those 5 users are better off being catered to by i.e GhostBSD, NomadBSD, etc.

 

[blackhole]

I am no trying to be adversarial but I noticed there are a lot of things that are per-configured in the system. Networking is configured during install and automatically starts on first boot along with various other packages that can be selected during startup regarding time settings, power settings and other various configuration options.

I would suggest that, as networking is part of the base installation and is quite arguably a vital function of the OS - it's not really a fair comparison. Clock, time zone, etc are also system global and apply to the base system. For configuration, none of these require pkg(8) to be bootstrapped or any packages to be installed from a mirror.

 

[LibreQuest]

I would suggest that, as networking is part of the base installation and is quite arguably a vital function of the OS - it's not really a fair comparison. Clock, time zone, etc are also system global and apply to the base system. For configuration, none of these require pkg(8) to be bootstrapped or any packages to be installed from a mirror.

A very fine point and I agree.

 

[Cath O'Deray]

… auto configuration necessarily like is available with GhostBSD. …

Part of what's involved:

GitHub - ghostbsd/xconfig: xconfig is an automation tool to set up X11 for GhostBSD

xconfig is an automation tool to set up X11 for GhostBSD - ghostbsd/xconfig

github.com

People who have an interest in desktop environments might like to continue here:

2024: The year of desktop FreeBSD?

Yeah, I went there with the title, but don't worry, the reference is both deliberate and self-aware. I'm actually about to write an article about this very subject to a Finnish computer culture magazine, from the viewpoint of a newbie-ish, enthusiast, non-sysadmin, desktop user. When I got my...

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