maybe not the first one to complain but not the last

[ralphbsz]

I've got a lot of "old" physical media and a lot of "modern" digital "purchases". But my digital "purchases" seem to be licences-to-use while the providers can be bothered, can get the content, and I stay alive.

When you buy CDs from Amazon, you also get a copy of the same music as a download. I think you can also buy the downloadable version only for a discount, yet to try that. Anyway, once time I actually ended up using this, because I was in a great hurry: I needed a copy of some very uncommon classical music within a few hours, and the only options were to either download it from Amazon (the CD showed up a few days later), or to drive to the county library and borrow the CD there, and here in the Bay Area, you don't voluntary drive places during rush hour, it would be suicidal with our traffic.

So anyway, the downloadable copy you get from Amazon is simply a good-quality MP3, ripped with high bit rate, and no DRM at all. Very convenient, and very libertarian with the omission of DRM.

Now, I'm not claiming that this automatically means that Amazon is a good company. Nor would I claim that they are a bad company because of that "1984 on the kindle" drama. As usual, things are complex, and not black and white.

So I'm starting to think I should get physical copies of any favorite music, books and movies ...

I agree. Most recent one was yesterday's mail, a CD with Schumann's two Introduction and ... for piano and orchestra. But here comes the funny thing: the moment the CD shows up in the mail, I put it into my computer to rip it and store it on disk, I run the booklet through the scanner and put it on disk, and most likely, I'll never touch the physical CD again. I'm not sure I can explain why I buy the physical copy, but I do.

 

[wolffnx]

So, after all Netflix is not the bad guy here,thanks for the opinions

 

[ralphbsz]

We can't even get Google to support Chromium on FreeBSD and you would think it would be easy for them to do.

Have you tried making an estimate how many M$ per year it would cost?

 

[Abraham79]

There is no answer: https://support.google.com/chrome/thread/78492552

 

[sidetone]

They would probably have a harder time preventing piracy of their content.

 

[ShelLuser]

Now, pardon my ignorance but as far as I know you can also watch Netflix using a browser. So why not use that? And if that doesn't work isn't it more fair to conclude that this fault lies more with whatever browser you're using rather than Netflix?

Sure, I can see how having a little program which gets things set up instantly can be useful. But when looking at my Windows 10 & Android Netflix apps I hope you do realize that these are basically web based clients? And if I recall correctly some browsers already allow you to set up and use a bookmark entry as if it were an application which you start, surely this also works on FreeBSD?

 

[PMc]

Have you tried calling Reed Hastings, and offered to write him a check for FreeBSD support? It would be a VERY BIG check. If each person who is so passionate about this issue would write a check for an extra $10K, then it would take only 180 people to make it viable. And lots of people donate $10K per year to charitable causes.

Now You are getting really tasteless. The point is: Netflix are not a charitable operation of any kind. They are the opposite; their only agenda is to make money. They have no passion, no vision except for making money. And they already got so far with that, so they belong to the richest entities in the world.

I find it more interesting, and more troublesome, that they make their money from an infra they did not provide. They didn't build the computers. They didn't build the network. They're a kind of parasites.

And this is true for the whole FAANG business scheme. One should occasionally wonder what has happend to our economy, how come that a couple of new-economy shops now are richer than the old economy. And this is the reason: they didn't have to build their stuff. The work they depend on was already done - they only needed to make it big enough for their purposes. And in contrast to e.g. airplanes, where it needs real skill to make bigger ones, computing scales rather well.

Maybe in silicon valley the opinion is prevalent that this wealth comes "naturally", because people are so "advanced", or whatever. But is this in any way different from the sovereigns of old, who also thought that their wealth would come naturally to them because of "divine right"?

I'm not envious in any way, but I see an imbalance here. A split between those who manage the machines, and those who are only needed to consume and pay, and are not expected to understand how things work behind the scene. I'm no fan of socialist ideas, but suggesting that those who participated in building the whole thing should now give their little money to those who became already trillionaires from parasiting it, for the mere sake of being accepted, that is insulting. And You are forgetting that most people cannot simply "write a check for 10k" - there are lots of people who have only 5k to get their food for a whole year.

 

[getopt]

Actually Netflix is a pain in the ass for those not using it but suffering from reduced bandwidth when consumer masses get their brainwash.

 

[drhowarddrfine]

Have you tried making an estimate how many M$ per year it would cost?

I would bet that a chat with a FreeBSD developer would cost them less than a thousand dollars and would fix several major issues in one sitting.

The issues with getting Chrome to work on Linux are going to be almost the same as on FreeBSD. It will be thisclose. It shouldn't take much.

 

[SirDice]

Now, pardon my ignorance but as far as I know you can also watch Netflix using a browser. So why not use that?

That browser is required to have support for Widevine. It doesn't matter what application you use, no Widevine DRM support, no Netflix. Or Hulu, Spotify, Disney+, Amazon Prime and a handful of others.

Widevine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SirDice]

Because it costs money. Bit $$$, not little $.

Actually, it doesn't cost anything.

Perhaps one of the most important points to note about Widevine is that it doesn’t charge a license fee in order to implement its protection technology. So there’s no financial reason why some smartphones are missing out.

What is Widevine digital rights management (DRM) and why does it matter?

Google's Widevine DRM is used to check if your phone can stream HD content from services like Netflix. Here's what you need to know.

www.androidauthority.com

This is a problem though:

Instead, hardware manufacturers only need to pass a certification process. This includes the completion of various legal agreements, implementation of some software libraries, and client integration testing to verify support, among other steps.

I'm not sure how this process works for browsers (in essence software-based) but this certification process is probably the biggest reason why there is no Widevine for FreeBSD.

 

[Mjölnir]

You hear repeatedly here that Netflix chose FreeBSD for content delivery. Yes, but it is the license. Not because FreeBSD is better than Linux.

Netflix runs on FreeBSD simply because the founder knew FreeBSD much better than any other Unix-like OS?

 

[drhowarddrfine]

mjollnir I think everything else Netflix runs uses Windows and Linux. FreeBSD came later with the content delivery boxes. Netflix engineers have more access to kernel developers and networking with FreeBSD as well as the ability to modify and contribute back which is more difficult with Linux. Licensing might have played a part in this but I don't know that it's any major reason.

 

[SirDice]

I recently watched a presentation on Youtube about Netflix. Netflix uses a multitude of different systems because homogeneous environments are rather prone to catastrophic failures. I can't find that video again though, my play history on youtube is rather large.

 

[a6h]

wolffnx:
I think it's a good time to put it down to experience. There are six weeks to go until next Christmas Day. Don't consume digital media for next six weeks.
Listening to music and reading books are quite helpful. Then come back and tell us about "changes in quality of your life".

 

[Alain De Vos]

For DRM windows is the platform. That explains the focus. It's about binding content.

 

[wolffnx]

wolffnx:
I think it's a good time to put it down to experience. There are six weeks to go until next Christmas Day. Don't consume digital media for next six weeks.
Listening to music and reading books are quite helpful. Then come back and tell us about "changes in quality of your life".

Is a good plan, really I dont even was watching netflix,and dont watch tv,only some shows but few,
yes,is good to disconect from digital media(except the music)

 

[dd_ff_bb]

Main question is why FreeBSD foundation doesn't have more income to support necessary projects & why doesn't FreeBSD community growing faster.

These questions' answer depends on many points but to highlight couple of them ;

Freebsd is server OS:

First of all this notion of "freebsd is server OS not a desktop OS" is completely nonsense and old fashioned thinking from 70s

There is no desktop or server OS in sense of 70s anymore, a developer/company has to develop, test and run their software on a OS

Is Mysql a server software or desktop, should nginx considered as a desktop software or server software. Is ZFS server file system?????

Most of us develop test and publish our products from a single system at the same time we also make skype calls, zoom meetings etc from the same system...

People CAN NOT use FreeBSD as desktop effectively is a lot different than people DO NOT use FreeBSD as desktop

Growing Community:

This brings us to second point FreeBSD is developed/maintained by community and growing community is essential for future of the project.

To involve in FreeBSD community & possibly become a future developer/contributor, a person should be able to do simple tasks on a computer.

Because once you start using a OS daily as your main system chances of involving in the project and possibly become future developer/contributor grow substantially

And in this age either you like it or not computer users spending ~80 percent of their time for browsing (includes netflix, youtube etc...) and communication (email, chat, video conferencing etc...)

So to attract more users any OS should be providing these basic functionality.

FreeBSD foundation:

Linux certified hardware: Major linux distributions (and even Qubes OS) have certification income from computer/hardware vendors including: lenovo, dell, insurgo etc....

As far as i know there is no FreeBSD certified computer vendors. This should be a main focus for freebsd foundation as it might bring substantial income

But more importantly FreeBSD Certified Computers will also result in masses to move to Freebsd without hassle

Also this income could support additional developers to work on FreeBSD desktop experience, and this can become self sufficient development process (in terms of funding)

There is a huge wave of linux users looking for alternative OS but FreeBSD fails to fulfill this desire because of reasons explained in this post

Android developer requires Android studio to run on his/her OS, can FreeBSD foundation push google in this direction?

(you can replace android studio with skype, zoom etc...)

We don't need and/or want linux/microsoft users should not be the attitude

You can answer all above questions "No" but desired intention should be how can we make it possible

Another example Microsoft made donation to FreeBSD foundation in 2018 but not in 2019 and 2020 or Intel made donation in 2019 but not in 2020 etc....

Is there a specific reason and can it be addressed so Microsoft (or any other company) continues to make donations each year.

"Microsoft Teams Suite" working on linux, android and macos but not FreeBSD even on Microsoft Tech Community website Microsoft developer (Nikitha Palli Konda) answers to request as follow:

"This isn't currently considered for an extension of our Linux roadmap, but we will definitely keep an eye on it to see if interest grows on the market."

Same for "Visual Studio Code" running on linux,mac but not FreeBSD. Can FreeBSD foundation involve and possibly find a solution???

Microsoft and many other companies getting involved in open source, so can FreeBSD also benefit from this trend?

Note: This post by no means intended to undermine FreeBSD foundations work. Just opinions of a FreeBSD user.

 

[richardtoohey2]

There is no desktop or server OS in sense of 70s anymore, a developer/company has to develop, test and run their software on a OS

Ummm, some of us LIKE FreeBSD (and OpenBSD etc) where we can start from a very simple base OS and with a few commands it can be focussed on being a server.

I don't want a GUI or hundreds of libraries I don't need. I want 100% of the machine's resources going to serving database queries and web pages.

I like that I can also choose to make a desktop machine based on the same OS, but I like having that choice. With Linux I can choose one of the cut-down versions if I want a GUI-less installation, or go for full-fat like Mint (on which I can install the DRM stuff and watch Netflix!)

 

[drhowarddrfine]

dd_ff_bb I've had it as my sig for years and I'll repeat it again. FreeBSD is a professional operating system for professionals and serious computer enthusiasts. It's designed for people who want to get serious work done. Watching movies and playing games is fine but that's what Windows is for. And Linux now for that matter. You want to watch movies? Pull up your Windows box. You want to make movies? Pull up a serious Unix box.

When a construction crew wants to move big rocks, they get a MAC truck. Does MAC concern itself that soccer mom's van is more popular? No. FreeBSD is in the business of moving big rocks.

 

[a6h]

FreeBSD is developed/maintained by community and growing community is essential for future of the project.

More users? Yes.
More unskilled developers? Absolutely not!

To involve in FreeBSD community & possibly become a future developer/contributor, a person should be able to do simple tasks on a computer.

Involvement needs passion and commitment, not to mention skill and experience. Very rare combination!
By the way, we're already able to perform simple tasks on the FreeBSD. From directory listing to building customised kernel.

Because once you start using a OS daily as your main system chances of involving in the project and possibly become future developer/contributor grow substantially

Not necessarily. You don't have to live on the platform you're working on it. Examples: APK, RPi, AVR, PIC, etc.

users spending ~80 percent of their time for browsing (includes netflix, youtube etc...) and communication (email, chat, video conferencing etc...) So to attract more users any OS should be providing these basic functionality.

I don't think such crowd has enough time to read man pages, source codes and related textbooks.

We don't need and/or want linux/microsoft users should not be the attitude

That's the mindset of FSF/GNU and neophytes. As far as I know FreeBSD users are normal people.

"Microsoft Teams Suite" working on linux, android and macos but not FreeBSD [...]

Team, Skype, WhatsApp and Telegram are working fine on the Chromium.
There's a problem with Signal messenger, but Mr. Antranig Vartanian is working on it: Signal-cli with scli on FreeBSD

Same for "Visual Studio Code" running on linux,mac but not FreeBSD. Can FreeBSD foundation involve and possibly find a solution???

This one is not on Foundation. But the Project can and they did. Here's the result:
pkg install editors/vscode

Microsoft and many other companies getting involved in open source, so can FreeBSD also benefit from this trend?

I'll quote Theo de Raadt (to the ITWire):

I fully understand that Red Hat and Canonical won't be doing the right thing, they are traitors to the cause, mostly in it for the money and power. They want to be the new Microsoft

Now not only I agree with him, but also I believe the main aim and ultimate goal of such entities (Microsoft, Google and alike) is total destruction of libre and open source software.
These big corporations hate liberty. They have totalitarian psyche.

 

[richardtoohey2]

I never understand the "one true OS to rule them all" argument. Or "one true database" or "one true programming language" or the "one true anything".

If I want to run Microsoft stuff like Visual Studio - I'll use Windows (it will probably work better on there anyway). Android development - probably better on Linux or something else?

Do you tell musicians that they should do rap as well as heavy metal and mix in some classical music so that you only have to follow one band?

Do you have one vehicle that you take off-roading, motorway driving, race-track driving, etc.? Or if you go to a rack track to compete, do you drive there in your old car, and have a different car for the race?

I agree it would be nice if I didn't have to switch OS to get some jobs done but it's not the end of the world to fire up something else that works better in a different environment.

If trying to be the "one true OS" means that MySQL support suffers, or the developers are focussed on keeping Microsoft happy (or whatever!) I'd rather they didn't.

Anyway, I think this is turning into one of those "why doesn't FreeBSD do X" threads again ... ?

 

[Crivens]

All this "we need to grow" is missing the point: Grow into what?
We need to be big enough not to wink out of existence easily, and small enough for agility (insert tap dancing elefant).

And for reference: today more people are making flint tools and arrow points then in the stone age. Time didn't stop that.

 

[shkhln]

FWIW, we are already pretty close to getting Widevine working without much hassle. What this "discussion" is about again?

 

[dd_ff_bb]

There is no discussion just some thoughts shared with the forum (at least my post) and getting feedback