Isn't time to build a serious graphical package manager for FreeBSD?

[freethread]

@piggy
well, I try to reply in the shortest way, sorry for the english. All the ports are made by third-party developers/companies/organizations that have nothing to do with FreeBSD. To build up a system that include some of that packages mean to dedicate to them resources, many resources, expecially if you want the packages always up to date. In some way this is how the Linux distributions are made. Now you can think this is good, for me is a big 'patch' or a bunch of small patches, the most valuable Linux distribution, in my opinion, are the one owned by big companies (many resources), FreeBSD (in my opinion), is better than many OSs, it comes with no features/enhancements, they are in ports and you decide what to do with them and how to tune them after installation, but it's up to you, your experience, knowledge, will and, last but not least, luck.

To create a graphical installer with ready-to-use desktops and graphical package maintenance mean to include all the necessary 3rd-party packages, maintain them and standardize the system usage, this mean you no more will do what you want to do with the system, in other words the end of FreeBSD as you know.

That is my opinion.

 

[fonz]

Again: speak for yourself considering you, just like me, you are not related in any way with The FreeBSD Foundation.

Make no mistake: everybody here speaks for themselves (unless explicitly stated otherwise, of course). Please note that these are the FreeBSD Forums, not the FreeBSD Foundation Forums.

• If you wish to make suggestions to the FreeBSD Foundation I suggest you contact them, not us.
• If you wish to make suggestions to the FreeBSD developers, there are better places to go than here. Most developers don't read this.
• If you wish to make suggestions to the FreeBSD community at large (then you are in the right place), you should be willing to accept answers such as "What you want isn't likely to happen anytime soon." or "What you want already exists." or "Anyone is free to make what you want, but I'm not going to."

Fonz

 

[piggy]

Make no mistake: everybody here speaks for themselves (unless explicitly stated otherwise, of course). Please note that these are the FreeBSD Forums, not the FreeBSD Foundation Forums.

• If you wish to make suggestions to the FreeBSD Foundation I suggest you contact them, not us.
• If you wish to make suggestions to the FreeBSD developers, there are better places to go than here. Most developers don't read this.
• If you wish to make suggestions to the FreeBSD community at large (then you are in the right place), you should be willing to accept answers such as "What you want isn't likely to happen anytime soon." or "What you want already exists." or "Anyone is free to make what you want, but I'm not going to."

Fonz

Who is US? US is me too, considering I wrote stuff on this forum. And it is you and not me pretending to speak for them, The FreeBSD Foundation. Obviously I know where I post, do you too?

 

[sk8harddiefast]

So you want a stable and advanced OS like FreeBSD in a ghetto just to please your needs to feel yourself like a geeks. Great. I hope guys in the foundation didn't build this OS for guys like you, and I'm sure they didn't.

You know. I am not a computer freak but I really like computers. I don't know how you feel when you listen a girl that the only thing that knows on her life is Facebook to tell: OK. I will use Linux!!! When I listen that I want to give her a punch. OK? I spend thousands of hours to learn about Kernels, bash, mount, networking, I read a lot, I tried a lot and I don't like someone that have none idea about computers to speak about them feeling like his is a hacker. (Is not the first time I say that but I feel very angry about it) Linux was beautiful and this damage, made it Ubuntu with all his automated things. Even my baby that is not born yet could install Ubuntu! But Linux is not Ubuntu and Ubuntu give wrong sense about what Linux really is. I think I am not the only one that believe this. This is the reason that I left Linux. I want a serious community. A close community. If not. Ok. Then make BSD like Ubuntu and Windows and start writing antivirus, create 7000000 distros, become a huge community and live the mess of things like this when you will have 10000000 different opinions and none cannot agree to something to find a solution. If you imagine FreeBSD as Linux then you are in wrong place. FreeBSD never was famous for his extremely friendly and big community. It was knowing about his serious community. Serious people that they know what the do, why and how to do it. People that don't like a trillion players that none works fine. They want one that works perfect! You know. Real freedom is to give you tools to create your home as exist in your imagination. Not in mine. That FreeBSD do. Gives you the tools and the freedom to play with them as you want even that is server, desktop or media center. Gives you options. Not the packet ready to use. And I don't know about you but the new wave and FreeBSD becomes the new Linux bothers me a lot. And the reason that Linux became very boring is exactly all the above. Huge community, mess, flame wars, none direction because in 1000000 different opinions you can't find the right direction. Just is impossible. Home and distro, 12 years old boys that they install Linux via GUI just to say to their friends: Hey look. I run Linux. Hackers run Linux. I am a hacker! If your dream about BSD is this ok. But Is not mine for sure! Also don't forget. FreeBSD. Power to serve. This community exist here to serve. Not to create the best desktop experience ever. FreeBSD's first goal is to be a server OS with stability and security. All the others become after that. I am not against GUI package manager. I am against the spirit that I see the last months: Make it easier. No. just learn more! The problem is not the terminal. The problem is you that afraid the terminal.
PS: bspkg exist on ports and is a GUI package manager.

 

[adamk]

sk8harddiefast, none of what you just posted changes the fact that a stated goal of FreeBSD is to exist as a desktop operating system and that, therefore, discussions on how to improve FreeBSD as a desktop operating system are perfectly reasonable and likely to happen on this board.

I am against the spirit that I see the last months: Make it easier. No. just learn more!

If you're desire to use an operating system is based on how difficult it is to use that operating system (which seems to be the general gist of your post) then there are likely operating systems that are an even better fit.

The problem is not the terminal. The problem is you that afraid the terminal.

I'm not sure how you managed to determine this about any user currently on the thread. No one here said anything suggesting that they are afraid of the terminal. Making suggestions on how to improve the operating system does not mean one is afraid of the terminal.

And, finally:

I don't know how you feel when you listen a girl that the only thing that knows on her life is Facebook to tell: OK. I will use Linux!!! When I listen that I want to give her a punch. OK?

If you want to punch people who want to try out linux, despite not knowing anything other than facebook, it sounds like you have a anger-management issue, and I recommend counseling. There's no reason for you to care that much about what another person is using on their computer. This is not meant as an insult or attack, but a serious concern.

Adam

 

[UNIXgod]

Feel free to read any of the other 1024 threads on this subject.

I just got that math. cute!

sk8harddiefast, none of what you just posted changes the fact that a stated goal of FreeBSD is to exist as a desktop operating system and that, therefore, discussions on how to improve FreeBSD as a desktop operating system are perfectly reasonable and likely to happen on this board.
Adam

FreeBSD does not have the goal to be only a desktop OS. In fact it's always been a Server OS which just so happens to also be a suitable OS for running a desktop or window manager.



Personally I'm pretty slow to move forward. I realize many people have the preference from their previous OSes to use gfx. But it's not my preference.

I have always went to the ports dir I needed.

Read the pkg* and make files.

created a proper make command with correct switches and set up portupgrades .conf file.

I know the make switches I need and enough portupgrade to semi automate upgrades.

I realize the ports system is pretty old ( actually one of the oldest) but it works for the most part.

I wouldn't want portupgrade or its alternative portmaster to be in the base system. It's my choice to pick the port automation tool I want.

Though if someone was to make a gtk frontend to ports and portmaster or portupgrade I imagine it would be nice for people who have no need for low level control or ssh without the x windows switch on their servers.

Most of us wont deal with xorg being in base. Having the tool supplied in ports will make both camps happy. Base is and should always be vanilla as everyone has different needs for their FreeBSD install.

 

[bbzz]

I can't believe people are getting mad for not having graphical package installer in FreeBSD. Ha!

 

[adamk]

I can't believe people are getting mad for not having graphical package installer in FreeBSD. Ha!

I don't see anyone getting mad that there is no graphical package manager, but I do see people getting mad at others for suggesting there be a graphical package installer.

 

[fonz]

Who is US?

The users of these forums, including you and me.

As I mentioned above, everybody here speaks for themselves. Ergo: I speak for myself as a user of these forums. In particular, as one who has seen several threads like this already. I do not speak for the FreeBSD Foundation, nor do I claim to do so. Don't twist my words.

Also, you're changing the subject. You started this thread by saying that "you guys at the FreeBSD Foundation" should create something that (you think) will improve FreeBSD.

• First of all, this is not the FreeBSD Foundation. This is a forum of mostly FreeBSD users. By addressing us (everybody here) with "you guys at the FreeBSD Foundation", you're already in the wrong place. You've written a letter to Bob but sent it to Alice.
• Second, suggestions are of course always welcome and I don't think anyone denies that you mean well.
• Third, you have read several earlier threads and (should) already know what kind of reception people with shopping lists usually get.
• Fourth, several people are trying to explain to you that there are already such programs in the ports collection.
• Fifth, several people are trying to explain to you that and why those programs are unlikely to be moved into the base system anytime soon.
• Sixth, if you think those are not good enough (yet) and you want something new to be created, you (should) know that this is usually not the right place to ask. Most developers don't read or post here and most of the people who do read and post here will tell you to do it yourself.
• Seventh, just because you don't like the answers you knew you could expect, doesn't mean you should cause a scene.

Fonz

 

[bbzz]

Tomato, tomatho.
Anyway, I still don't get shananigans about this graphic package installer. How people dare think there should be one in the first place!

 

[sk8harddiefast]

sk8harddiefast, none of what you just posted changes the fact that a stated goal of FreeBSD is to exist as a desktop operating system and that, therefore, discussions on how to improve FreeBSD as a desktop operating system are perfectly reasonable and likely to happen on this board.

I don't disagree about that. I disagree on FreeBSD's first priority. As desktop OS or as Server OS? If you start as server OS then you take completely different direction of Desktop OS!
Also then why PCBSD exist? Exactly for this reason!

If you're desire to use an operating system is based on how difficult it is to use that operating system (which seems to be the general gist of your post) then there are likely operating systems that are an even better fit

I take the difficulty as fact to choose an OS because I really don't like all the situation about Linux. Is just a mess! The last 3 years everyday a new distro! What's the point of 200 debian based distros witch all are almost the same? More difficult=less people. Not 2-3 but not 15 millions that everyone has something in his mind and because they cannot find a way to go forward and agree with there opinions and there ideas, they create a new distro

I'm not sure how you managed to determine this about any user currently on the thread. No one here said anything suggesting that they are afraid of the terminal. Making suggestions on how to improve the operating system does not mean one is afraid of the terminal.

Ok. On this maybe I am wrong on that. Just I don't like the idea to wake up a day and see FreeBSD 12 with GUI installer, KDE by default, GUI package manager etc. Not because I hate them. Just because I don't want to see them in base. I want FreeBSD can act as a perfect desktop system but not embedded with the system. To be 2 separated things. None say that FreeBSD can't be as desktop. I use it as desktop and I have one FreeBSD server too. But. FreeBSD is a server OS. A server OS must not have GUI by default. A Server hardware may have 2 processors on his mobo but for sure don't have a very demanding graphics card. Maybe some embedded, enough powerful for a window manager and a lot of servers works with WEBUI like FreeNAS, pfsense etc. That by own can teach as that a Server OS is something different from Desktop OS. Not that can't exist as desktop OS. Just in first place don't act like this. I don't say what can be but what is his priority. Can be spaceship too but this is not FreeBSD's first priority!
Finishing, I want to make something clear. Punch people is a phrase. I have never never in my life make something bad to anyone and I am against violence. But if you spend 10 hours to draw somenthing, how you will feel If I will come and say to you. Ok. I have never used pencil in my life but I draw better than you and see the razz in my face? The first time you will be disappointed. After 5-6 times you will start to be angry too. It's very normal and that we call it.... human! Just I don't like anyone with none computer knowledge to judge FreeBSD or speak for Linux like is Windows. One day everyone waked up and learned about Linux. This is not the bad. Me too. I was one of them. The bad is when, you have no idea what is this but you insult it. Don't tell me that you really like it!
PS: I have a complex about OSes. I know that just this is the reason.

 

[fonz]

Anyway, I still don't get shananigans about this graphic package installer. How people dare think there should be one in the first place!

I can imagine why some people want one. In fact, there are some programs out there that do just that. I don't need them, but they are there and I'm fine with that. However, the people who want it most (or complain the loudest that the current ones aren't good enough) are usually not the same people who have the ability to actually make or fix it themselves. The people who do have that ability either have already done it, or don't have time to do it because they have other priorities, or can't be arsed to do it because they don't need it.

Fonz

 

[adamk]

But if you spend 10 hours to draw somenthing, how you will feel If I will come and say to you. Ok. I have never used pencil in my life but I draw better than you and see the razz in my face? The first time you will be disappointed. After 5-6 times you will start to be angry too. It's very normal and that we call it.... human!

If they were able to draw better than I was, that fast, then I'd think it might be time for me to do something else If they weren't better than me, then why would I care?

Adam

 

[drhowarddrfine]

• First of all, this is not the FreeBSD Foundation. This is a forum of mostly FreeBSD users. By addressing us (everybody here) with "you guys at the FreeBSD Foundation", you're already in the wrong place. You've written a letter to Bob but sent it to Alice.
• Second, suggestions are of course always welcome and I don't think anyone denies that you mean well.
• Third, you have read several earlier threads and (should) already know what kind of reception people with shopping lists usually get.
• Fourth, several people are trying to explain to you that there are already such programs in the ports collection.
• Fifth, several people are trying to explain to you that and why those programs are unlikely to be moved into the base system anytime soon.
• Sixth, if you think those are not good enough (yet) and you want something new to be created, you (should) know that this is usually not the right place to ask. Most developers don't read or post here and most of the people who do read and post here will tell you to do it yourself.
• Seventh, just because you don't like the answers you knew you could expect, doesn't mean you should cause a scene.

Eighth, you're ugly, too.

 

[sk8harddiefast]

If they were able to draw better than I was, that fast, then I'd think it might be time for me to do something else If they weren't better than me, then why would I care?

Because they are not as good as you, but they judge you! You try to explain them but still they judge you and act like they are picasso just because the made to draw a line. And the worst. They judge you because they don't understand what are you telling them. They have none idea about drawing! Maybe you are not picasso but you draw well. You spend hours to draw well and better that them for sure. And they continue to judge you! Now you understand what I try to say?

 

[adamk]

Because they are not as good as you, but they judge you! Now you understand what I try to say?

So what? If they aren't as good as me, but think they are, clearly their opinion (on that matter) is worthless in my eyes. I couldn't care what they think, then, and there's no reason to get upset.

Adam

 

[sk8harddiefast]

You have right but this is about what they say when they judge you. You know. Stealing from stealing have very big difference. Steal is stealing a chocolate, steal is robbing a bank too. But is not the same thing.
You can't go to your computers professor that works on UNIX 15 years and studied 2000 books to learn, and act to him with razz with the "air" of hacker just because you installed Ubuntu Linux when the only you know in your life is msn! Just is wrong! If you respect your self first of all you don't do that! I am not a psycho guy. Just bothers me when I see that! It is normal! Especially when they do it to me. Not because I am the best on computers because I am not but I don't accept to judge me a guy that all day is on facebook and don't know even what reboot means! So because I don't want to have this, I left Linux when start to be more know and everyone start to have opinion about it, even if had none idea about computers. I used FreeBSD and I liked FreeBSD. I really love FreeBSD and just I don't want one day to decide to leave FreeBSD for the same reason. Sounds stupid but I really don't like it! Is just me! None tells that I am perfect. I am a human and I have my complex too witch is very normal.
Also. I like GUI but I want to have choices where I want to use GUI and where not. For example. I use xfce4. I use GUI. But I dont want use GUI for package manager. Is good to exist a GUI package manager on ports. I am with this idea too. But I don't like to install FreeBSD and start Xserver by own, give me KDE4 and a GUI package manager just because come with the base and is part of the system. Is not something that I choosed. It's called PCBSD. If I was searching for that now I was not writing this post Or I like automated things but not in base. How I configure my network, is something that I will decide it. Maybe I want use ling aggregation or give static ip. Why the system must decide by own to configure only one of my 2 cards and give DHCP? Or autoconfigure my soundcard when I am setting a NAS server? On NAS server enable the sound card is just useless. But I like automated things like automount a flash disk. (It's painfull to mount everytime. Especially me because I use flash disks everyday) or see a movie from DVD without try two hours to mount cdrom and make subtitles to work properly. But not go to the other side that everything is autoconfigured, computer serves to me coffee, do anything without asking, mount everythig by own, samba, nfs, local hdds etc and after you lose one week to find how to change permissions. That we call it Windows / Ubuntu. Is better to learn by own to set permissions. Sometimes to start something from scratch is better to try to fix something. (In some cases)
Is not bad to have 10 player to decide what you want. Is bad to have 10000 player to decide what you want. Especially if the 5000 not working good. That we call it mess. Is better to have 10 players that rocks and do there job. Is good to have flags and decide what kind of support want / don't want my package to have. To install a package that will give to me other DE or tools that I have already disposed in the past for some reason as dependencies is something that I don't like. For exact this reason I chose FreeBSD. Because gives me this flexibility on the most of the cases. Just I don't want this to change to bad and that's why I react when I read posts to make it easier (Easier=autoconfigured). How easy and automated things will be is a very slim line that if we cross it to the other side things may will go wrong, the community will grow from 23000 to 23000000, flexibility maybe will be lost and FreeBSD will die as server OS that can be used as desktop too and will be only a desktop OS. Well I really don't like this idea! You believe that this can take a lot of time? I am not so sure!
This is that I am trying to say all this time and if you believe that I am wrong feel free to judge me. You know about computers, Linux, BSD, Unix. I can accept it from you

 

[tcrider84]

Here's what I think. FreeBSD is great the way it is. It's simple, solid, stable. When I first started using linux I had no idea what I was getting into. Had I not taken the time to learn it, I would not have known how to progress and fix/update things. I first started with redhat, then mandrake. I soon realized that you could not simply follow a gui and install a few packages and have everything fine and dandy.

Soon after, I moved to debian. This was my first 'real' dive into linux. Where I learned basically how to install what I wanted and leave out what I didn't, as well as fix what was broken. (Back when installing nvidia drivers to me was a daunting task let alone setting up X). A few years later I moved to ubuntu, yes, everything was easily automated from their GUIs, but what happened when that GUI failed on some piece of hardware during install? I infact had atleast 3 notebooks I can think of that would fail and auto-restart during their "easy install". Had it not been for my past debian experience I would have been clueless. THAT, right there, is what separates the wants from the needs. Ubuntu might as well be a version of windows built on debian (as mac is to bsd).

I like FreeBSD as it is because you know EXACTLY what you're setting up,adding, or removing. You know exactly what the system contains, and is running, and you know it's not filled with unnecessary extra bloatware. You also know by coming to the community that everyone in the community had to go through the same process to set up their version of FreeBSD, and for the most part won't have to deal with a bunch of ubuntu "follow the gui.. click click oh, you did that? well idk" responses.

FreeBSD is definately a learning experience as opposed to most linux distros now which are more user-friendly than "back in the day". Yes, I agree FreeBSD is the new "linux" in that learning aspect, and I think it's a great thing.

 

[adamk]

You have right but this is about what they say when they judge you. You know.

They can say what they want; I am not so fragile that I see the need to get upset. What they believe has no bearing on the truth.

As for the rest of your post, sk8harddiefast, you're jumping to conclusions that I just can't reach. I will say, however, that the original post makes no mention of autoconfiguring anything and that, in fact, easier does not necessarily mean autoconfigured.

Anyway, this conversation is going nowhere, so I will quickly summarize my thoughts... The original poster simply made a suggestion regarding package management, and you responded that FreeBSD is a server OS and not a desktop OS. Clearly the FreeBSD homepage says differently so, like it or not, this is a perfectly valid location to discuss possible ways to improve FreeBSD as a desktop operating system.

Adam

 

[DutchDaemon]

FreeBSD is not in the business of producing anything graphical. Anything graphical is a third-party add-on, so a graphical package manager would be a third-party add-on as well. So it is up to a third party to create a graphical package manager, not FreeBSD. Moreover, FreeBSD is about choice, so decisions about which graphical environment, tools, etc., are up to the user. I doubt FreeBSD will ever come with a dedicated graphical environment or any dedicated graphical tools for anything ([bsd|sys]install-stuff aside), if only because most of it is licensed in a way that makes inclusion in FreeBSD's base OS unfeasible or impossible. Maybe it's time to face that reality: FreeBSD is a command-line OS. Want something else: develop and build it yourself, or pay someone to do it for you. Chances that FreeBSD developers will do it are pretty slim, because none of them (that I know of) have shown any interest in adding graphical capabilities to the base system. FreeBSD can be used as a desktop OS, it has the necessary capabilities to support graphical environments, the base system has the necessary tools to allow installing and running graphical environments, but that's basically it. FreeBSD is something to serve with or to build upon, it's more of a tool than a product, and it's not (willing to be) everything to everybody.

 

[sk8harddiefast]

however, that the original post makes no mention of autoconfiguring anything and that, in fact, easier does not necessarily mean autoconfigured.

All start from an idea. My first thought was to make a video for the girl that I love 6 years. Next week I am going to studio to record the song that I wrote for here!
Ok. @DutchDaemon said exactly my thoughts. The only that I want to say is that me too I feel good about GUI as third-package. Not problem with that. Just not in base. Let's keep it as third-package.
The start is already made. Is bxpkg. Exist on ports and is a GUI package manager. Not sure if works for prebuild packages only but I said earlier is better to create one that rocks. Never mind.
I don't know programming (this is the bad thing) but If you want It would be my pleasure to help somehow. Even you start something from scratch.

 

[UNIXgod]

So you want a stable and advanced OS like FreeBSD in a ghetto just to please your needs to feel yourself like a geeks. Great. I hope guys in the foundation didn't build this OS for guys like you, and I'm sure they didn't.

With the foundations slim budget I imagine someone would need to donate specifically to push another layer to the existing ports tools. None the less the current donations are used for furthering drivers development, jails and firewall as well as other security tools. These current projects are tools many people need to make a living.

Not to be redundant but I believe everything has been covered here on this thread.

PC-BSD currently exists to provide people a starting point who may not be comfortable at first with seeing only a shell on first boot.

FreeBSD attempts( quite well) to be a historic server OS with the freedom to choose the tools and programs one requires for their specific computing needs.

FreeBSD does not attempt to market itself in competition for other operating systems. Never has and for the most part since it is a historical UNIX it really does not need to. (Yes I said the U word!)

Bell UNIX, BSD UNIX and FreeBSD prefer shell scripting and automation for administration. If a graphical install is needed for client one can be scripted simply. One of the most prevalent mis-conceptions that I hear from the consumer desktop user is that BSD UNIX and open source programs are not polished because they are created by programmers and the last thing on their mind is interface design.

Nothing is furthest from the truth. Regular expressions were first conceived in the 50's. The concept of rc and shell was pushed in the 60's. The pipe implemented to endow redirection in the 70's ... perl the 80's ... ruby in the 90's. Each innovation is left for human interaction and control and has been polished since the early days of UNIX from the 70's though the 80's.

Though it may be an oversimplification the ports system automation removes the users interaction of running tar, ./configure, make etc. Also it (obviously) recursively pulls in the programs libraries and dependencies and so on. All of which can be tweaked for optimization and/or security. Come to think about it. Thats pretty incredible and well polished and thought out piece of software ( actually I would go as far as calling it a system)

Also it's really not a hard system to learn. Everyone here started somewhere and eventually get the paradigm and procedures. I am still empathetic to those wish to circumvent the learning curve but your only cheating yourself. In all honesty shell scripting, unix utilities and modern shell languages may be bizarre at first but once the user hits the epiphany on proper usage( and paradigm) it becomes a life long skill which lasts beyond simply compiling and installing as it's use moves into the service realm such as our firewalls, web servers, email and so on.

Though Fonz was in so many words nicely telling you to "Shut up and HACK" (This means stop complaining and innovate if your not familiar with the mantra.) You have a couple of options if this is of financial importance to you.

Seed your own project. (This requires programming)
New to programming? Start there and use it as a pet project and seed it later.
If you don't want to do that but need to have this tool sooner than later for a client or current deadlined project contact a developer and pay them.
Not sure where to get a developer you can contact the FreeBSD Foundation and ask for recommendations.

If you feel there is some stress on this thread it's because common threads occur often where the user may be new to BSD or even UNIX in general and simply doesn't understand the goal of the project or has unrealistic expectations from the requests not realizing the implications of the request as anything added to base affects everyone and could bring unnecessary bloat to the system.

In the 90's FreeBSD had perl in base. It was removed during 4.x. Many base scripts that used it where replaced with standard bourne scripts. Almost anything you install from the ports almost always depends on perl. It makes it on the system no matter what. But somewhere out there. There is someone who has a system that doesn't need perl and it isn't there. This saves them space, resources, administration, and makes the system more secure. Not that perl is not secure. But if there was a issue you can't breach an executable that doe not exist. The same concept can be applied to x windows.

I don't know programming (this is the bad thing)

I would be more than happy to help you get started on programming. PM me if your interested or begin a thread in the programming section.

 

[piggy]

I read all the posts.

Good god, FreeBSD is NOT a religion. Guys, there is life outside there, and this is the reason becouse FreeBSD should implement an official build system and a Package Manager into FreeBSD. So you have more time for real life and you go out, and you enjoy something more than a computer with a shell running "religious" FreeBSD intifada shell scripts.

Then, I could offer my life to guarantee, if you want to loose or you like to loose your life fighting with Portmaster and Portupgrade, you can still do it. You are free to do what you want and write what you want, then I'm still free to do the same without reading someone try to treat me like a retard.

It really makes me laugh read about that guy complaining becouse a girl always on Facebook do use Linux and he don't want she use FreeBSD (becouse his OS learning curve do not deserve she can be compared to him) and the other that want to feel hisself like the part of a elite and he don't want to have nothing in common with those guys pretending that a computer "just works" (I'm one of them and yes, I'm proud of it and yes I also like FreeBSD). I also read such experts confuse NetBSD with FreeBSD (who said FreeBSD is just a server OS?).

And all those speaking in the name of The FreeBSD Foundation, saying things they never said. And all those guys feeling themself great computer users and super experts just becouse they like to Portmaster and Portupgrade things.

Come on, FreeBSD is not such a ghetto: I read a lot about guys developing it, I read statements and seen pictures, they use them Macbooks, they wrote a very decent Unix flavour OS and they never wrote they want to be part of a elite and don't become rich and don't have as much users as they can. And FreeBSD need just little improvement on the user side to be ready for getting a lot more users. And this is good. And for a developer this is something that he surely like, to see his job widely respected and used by different kind of people, for different kind of use.

BTW, for me, user from 1994 (NINENTINEIGHTYFOUR), FreeBSD is just something free to make things up. And yes, FreeBSD do have also users like me, and yes those users sometimes write in the forums too, and yes they do propose things.

No religion, nothing at all. For me FreeBSD is a very good OS like others, it have something more and something less, and as a user I propose things to improve it. I want to see even six year old guys in school have the choice to run them kiddie apps on FreeBSD desktop and I want it could convenient for them if they want.

Overall my favourite desktop OS is MacOS, then I deeply respet Microsoft Windows (I do like it and use it and respect it very much) and Linux (I do appreciate the grown, I do appreciate it is now really popular and wide spreaded), I known and used (and sometimes still use) Solaris and OpenSolaris from long time (they even have a decent Package Manager, they just miss a lot of packages I could use and hardware support is poor; so I prefer FreeBSD).

I think every OS and I like to use them and try the best from them (I especially like FREE OS becouse I can't afford 50 MAC and 50 Windows licenses and becouse every OS enrich the scene and contrary to that guy, I'm very happy to see more and more Facebook girls on Linux machines.

Actually I don't feel myself as a retarded just becouse Ubuntu is considered cool by them, I'm happy about it, I consider Ubuntu cool myself too (and I appreciate many Ubuntu variants, like PeppermintOS for example, Linux Mint) and in my home members of the family do use FreeBSD desktops without even know what is the engine under that computer, just becouse I set up them there, and it is a big compliment for FreeBSD. And yesss, they enjoy Facebook and MSN over a FreeBSD machine. What a shame!


And, obviously, my request still remain: it is time for FreeBSD to move over from ghetto OS and intifada users, and build some official tools in the base OS to help things, like very many people ask, starting from me.

I will visit a FreeBSD convention, I hope soon, and speak with FreeBSD Foundation guys myself: I'm curious to hear what they think, what they want and who they are.

 

[SirDice]

FreeBSD should implement an official build system and a Package Manager into FreeBSD.

We already have? It's called the ports system, see ports(7). Packages are managed using the pkg_tools; pkg_add(1), pkg_delete(1), pkg_info(1), pkg_version(1).

 

[piggy]

We already have? It's called the ports system, see ports(7). Packages are managed using the pkg_tools; pkg_add(1), pkg_delete(1), pkg_info(1), pkg_version(1).

Yes, and this is a contraddiction in terms considering you only can upgrade programs to latest revision building them. This is the reason becouse it need:

1) an OFFICIAL, base and officially maintained graphical tool to manage packages
2) an OFFICIAL and officially maintained tool to build packages (something between Portmaster and Portupgrade)
3) an updated and maintained binary server for binary upgrades using the Official Graphical Tool in point 1.

No need for more. It obviously should retain the ability to compile and use third party source and to allow people to use what he want for compile, but OFFICIAL tools are there for compatibility and wide spread use.

It will be a real better OS and the effort will pay even in the short time in terms of usuability and user base.