• This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn more.

FreeBSD to rethink target audience?

Weinter

Member

Thanks: 3
Messages: 64

#1
I think FreeBSD has to rethink their objectives in order to expand their marketshare

As a server i think FreeBSD is very successful
However the fact is globally the increase in number of servers < increase in number of personal computers
And in the personal computer field Laptops form the majority

To expand their market share better support for PC system hardware has to be provided

Linux has already noticed this hence the emergence of support of laptop hardware and features (sleep/hibernation)

This is just my 2 cents I hope it is noted :)
 

kamikaze

Well-Known Member

Thanks: 72
Messages: 365

#2
These things already work under FreeBSD as long as you stick to i386. I agree that it's an issue with amd64, though.
 

Weinter

Member

Thanks: 3
Messages: 64

#3
kamikaze said:
These things already work under FreeBSD as long as you stick to i386. I agree that it's an issue with amd64, though.
Not sure about you but FreeBSD barely support PUMA laptops :( yet they chose to support EEEPCS EEEW

Many of the EEEPC users don't even want Linux they just want Windows

I think only advance users will try FreeBSD and advance users usually don't buy atom processors ?
 

oliverh

Aspiring Daemon

Thanks: 38
Messages: 557

#4
>yet they chose to support EEEPCS EEEW

If I'm correct Netbooks do have a world wide market share of almost 20%.

>Many of the EEEPC users don't even want Linux they just want Windows

They don't want it because the Netbook manufacturers did a lousy job on it (Linux).

So if there is a dev who wants to support some feature then you'll see it. In the end it's open source not a product of company you're paying for.

>And in the personal computer field Laptops form the majority

Is this really so? If yes, then go to the laptop manufactures and tell them to do a better job on the bios or the adoption of exotic hardware. Even with Linux you need a lot of luck to use the full potential of your laptop. It's easier with the latter but in the end it stays a gamble.
 

Itodaen

New Member


Messages: 3

#5
Hi,

Just looking at the logo of this site, which says "FreeBSD, The Power To Serve", and thinking I wouldn't encourage giving a priority to conquer the huge laptop world.

FreeBSD's strong side is servers, this is where it really shines with top quality, start making more attention to desktops, laptops, etc, and the strong part will eventually start fading away, like in a game, you only have 20 starting points, so where would you prefer to distribute it: power, dexterity or force ? ;)
 

ninjaslim

Member


Messages: 51

#7
I think the PC-BSD developers should work on laptops, rather than the FreeBSD developers. After all, PC-BSD does aim for the home marketshare. Since, PC-BSD does contribute its work back to FreeBSD and holds FreeBSD's longstanding devotion to quality very dearly, it's best to let them work on providing better support for laptops while FreeBSD continues on as an excellent server system.
 

none

Active Member

Thanks: 2
Messages: 124

#8
ninjaslim said:
I think the PC-BSD developers should work on laptops, rather than the FreeBSD developers. After all, PC-BSD does aim for the home marketshare. Since, PC-BSD does contribute its work back to FreeBSD and holds FreeBSD's longstanding devotion to quality very dearly, it's best to let them work on providing better support for laptops while FreeBSD continues on as an excellent server system.
as there is this way back to FreeBSD, this is what makes more sense to me :)

I do like FBSD on desktop, but some things makes me not use it. but as soon as these problems quit existing, I'll have FBSD on it :)

none
 

ninjaslim

Member


Messages: 51

#9
My laptop is a MacBook Pro running Mac OS X and my desktop is a Dell Optiplex GX620 running FreeBSD 7-STABLE. I have not had a single problem with the latter. In fact, it is practically the best system I've used in years.
 

cracauer@

Member
Developer

Thanks: 2
Messages: 65

#11
Last I checked suspend/hybernation wouldn't work with SMP kernels.

I don't support the view that FreeBSD should support random laptops. FreeBSD people usually buy hardware selected with FreeBSD in mind. But some issues such as this one you just can't do anything about (except not using the second core).
 

ninjaslim

Member


Messages: 51

#12
Actually, that's the way people should buy hardware. Supporting random hardware with poor drivers is worse than supporting quality hardware with quality drivers, as the BSDs do.
 

cracauer@

Member
Developer

Thanks: 2
Messages: 65

#13
Bad hardware usually also has lousy Windoze drivers. I don't think that buyers of literally random hardware can be target audience for FreeBSD at this stage.

Picking between universally broken things like no suspension on SMP and supporting some random obscure piece of notebook hardware I vote for the former.
 

Weinter

Member

Thanks: 3
Messages: 64

#14
oliverh said:
>yet they chose to support EEEPCS EEEW

If I'm correct Netbooks do have a world wide market share of almost 20%.

>Many of the EEEPC users don't even want Linux they just want Windows

They don't want it because the Netbook manufacturers did a lousy job on it (Linux).

So if there is a dev who wants to support some feature then you'll see it. In the end it's open source not a product of company you're paying for.

>And in the personal computer field Laptops form the majority

Is this really so? If yes, then go to the laptop manufactures and tell them to do a better job on the bios or the adoption of exotic hardware. Even with Linux you need a lot of luck to use the full potential of your laptop. It's easier with the latter but in the end it stays a gamble.
Not True Mandriva 2009 and the latest Ubuntu support my PUMA platform Laptop out of box but i...arggh...no...Linux :x

I don't think PUMA platform shouldn't be supported it is AMD current Mobile Platform
 

Weinter

Member

Thanks: 3
Messages: 64

#15
Itodaen said:
Hi,

Just looking at the logo of this site, which says "FreeBSD, The Power To Serve", and thinking I wouldn't encourage giving a priority to conquer the huge laptop world.

FreeBSD's strong side is servers, this is where it really shines with top quality, start making more attention to desktops, laptops, etc, and the strong part will eventually start fading away, like in a game, you only have 20 starting points, so where would you prefer to distribute it: power, dexterity or force ? ;)
I think Linux is conquering the server side as well :(
Last time I checked Netcraft lets just say Linux keep showing up
 

Almindor

New Member

Thanks: 1
Messages: 14

#16
oliverh said:
They don't want it because the Netbook manufacturers did a lousy job on it (Linux).
That's a very close minded thing to say. Just because certain front-ends chosen for the EEE are.. let's say "simpler" doesn't mean it has anything to do with Linux.

And if you constructed a "user's laptop with <linux|freeBSD>" you'd end up with same thing anyways. The user wouldn't even know what's under the hood, they'd just see KDE/Gnome/Xfce.

NOTE: I'm currently running FreeBSD/amd64 on 1 year old laptop with no problems. But I wouldn't recommend it to most people.
 

none

Active Member

Thanks: 2
Messages: 124

#17
Almindor said:
That's a very close minded thing to say. Just because certain front-ends chosen for the EEE are.. let's say "simpler" doesn't mean it has anything to do with Linux.

And if you constructed a "user's laptop with <linux|freeBSD>" you'd end up with same thing anyways. The user wouldn't even know what's under the hood, they'd just see KDE/Gnome/Xfce.

NOTE: I'm currently running FreeBSD/amd64 on 1 year old laptop with no problems. But I wouldn't recommend it to most people.
I would. it is great and no BSOD. for me, the issues are nVidia on amd64 (I plan to move to ATi) and Folding@Home SMP client (plan to use virtualbox or whatever makes it go).

none
 

chrcol

Well-Known Member

Thanks: 13
Messages: 376

#18
I have felt since 5.x FreeBSD have spent too much time focusing on the desktop and thats why linux has made ground on the server side.

The 2 top complaints I heard from datacentres as to why they dont/stopped supporting FreeBSD.

1 - Hard to use installer.
2 - Fussy on hardware, hangs on bootloader are common.

My view on hardware compatability and drivers, well for a long time on realtek cards linux was better, the reason I got from FreeBSD when I queuried was its poor hardware so tough luck, rather than ok we will try and get our driver as good as linux driver. Too often the response is go out and buy Y hardware and drop X hardware and at times I feel as if FreeBSD dev's are sales men for companies like intel. Since 7.x tho things seem to be getting better again. In all honesty I think 5.x and 6.x should have all been beta releases and 7.x should have been the 5.x. The main mistake seems to be the insistance on releasing a new major version on a timescale rather than when its ready. Windows has a new major version every 4 years or so, and how long has it been since linux 2.6.x was launched?

Examples of my reasoning behind major versions been launched too quickly?

New features since 4.x

Proper SMP scaling
ULE scheduler
libthr threading library
PF firewall

All these throughout 5.x and 6.x were essentially beta, we had the debug.mpsafenet switch, ULE wasnt properly done until 7.x, libthr agan not default till 7.x , PF the only thing considered production ready before 7.x out that list. Uniprocessor support in 5.x and 6.x has been substandard, the reasons given were its not the future however I will say back uniprocessor is still the mainstream, multi processor machines are still the minority believe it or not and when 6.0 was released uniprocssor was over 80% of the hardware in use. In 7.x uniprocessor is at least better than 5.x and 6.x so glad some work has been done there.

What I would like to see is 7.x become a proper workhorse like 4.x was, lets have a long gap before 8.0 and 10 or so minor releases of 7.x refining the release branch so it gets rock solid and able to handle large ddos attacks like 4.11 could.

FreeBSD core strength was stability not features.
 

james89

New Member


Messages: 6

#19
Weinter said:
I think FreeBSD has to rethink their objectives in order to expand their marketshare
I don't think FreeBSD should be concerned about marketshare, they should just keep doing what they've been doing, building a solid OS.
 

Ico

Member

Thanks: 1
Messages: 41

#20
Itodaen said:
Hi,

Just looking at the logo of this site, which says "FreeBSD, The Power To Serve", and thinking I wouldn't encourage giving a priority to conquer the huge laptop world.

FreeBSD's strong side is servers, this is where it really shines with top quality, start making more attention to desktops, laptops, etc, and the strong part will eventually start fading away, like in a game, you only have 20 starting points, so where would you prefer to distribute it: power, dexterity or force ? ;)
I can't agree more here. I recently purchased a machine I wanted to make into a server, and in my mind I had no doubt it would be running FreeBSD even though my laptop has a Linux distro on it. FreeBSD is an excellent server OS! Keep up the good work.

That's my 2 cents of course.. ;)
 

Weinter

Member

Thanks: 3
Messages: 64

#21
From what I know Linux is making big progess in BOTH SERVER AND WORKSTATION what you are saying FreeBSD can only progress one way...

Another thing is I am not advocating feature improvement
A new feature is not going to bring about 50% increase in performance
And features are usually unseen 10 seconds improvement in performance are not going to convince people to use FreeBSD but proper hardware support will that is where Linux shines
What I am hoping is better hardware support...
Sometimes due to cost and availability finding suitable hardware is not easy
Also new system (servers too) will purchase new hardware so FreeBSD has to support new hardware to stay competitive

PS:When are they going to change the boot menu screen i saw the prototype in FreeBSD wiki Look great but when are they going to integrate into stable (Well looks are superficial but humans are superficial too)�e
 

Weinter

Member

Thanks: 3
Messages: 64

#22
james89 said:
I don't think FreeBSD should be concerned about marketshare, they should just keep doing what they've been doing, building a solid OS.
That is were you are wrong

Market share give controlling power so companies have to consider FreeBSD as a platform to roll out their ports

Look at Linux the reason flash was supported for Linux is the NAME and Marketshare
I mean if there was only 10 Linux user worldwide would any company make Linux Drivers?
It will only make Linux a defunct OS which nobody cares.

It is the same for FreeBSD if marketshare keeps dropping many companies will soon drop support
The reality is that SUPPORT is not Free only when you have marketshare you will gain support

The above is the same reason you don't see anymore new OS popping out because nobody bothers to support them

No Marketshare -> No Support -> Less Improvement -> No Marketshare

Microsoft actually "forces" companies to make drivers because Windows has a large Desktop marketshare...

It is a vicious cycle

For FreeBSD to succeed it MUST WIN MARKET SHARE not only on Servers (too little) but on DESKTOP and LAPTOPS as well

I know saying this is unreasonable because I am doing NOTHING for FreeBSD because my skills are not there...
 

bsddaemon

Active Member

Thanks: 14
Messages: 101

#23
Weinter said:
Look at Linux the reason flash was supported for Linux is the NAME and Marketshare
If you are unhappy with FreeBSD because of Flash, you should have used Linux, or even Windows. Seriously!

Flash is evil and nothing about Flash suits Unix philosophy. The point about Unix is, we want our job done, and done very well, not about entertaining. If you want entertaining, Unix is a wrong choice. Linux or windows are waiting for you.

Btw, popularity doesnt usually address quality

And stop the fucking whinning, you really start being annoying
 

Weinter

Member

Thanks: 3
Messages: 64

#24
bsddaemon said:
If you are unhappy with FreeBSD because of Flash, you should have used Linux, or even Windows. Seriously!

Flash is evil and nothing about Flash suits Unix philosophy. The point about Unix is, we want our job done, and done very well, not about entertaining. If you want entertaining, Unix is a wrong choice. Linux or windows are waiting for you.

Btw, popularity doesnt usually address quality

And stop the fucking whinning, you really start being annoying
I am not complaining about flash
It is that FreeBSD doesn't support a lot of the hardware of my new AMD Puma platform laptop
It didn't support anything at all...
 

bsddaemon

Active Member

Thanks: 14
Messages: 101

#25
Pass your complaint to the vendors. Its your vendor who doesnt care to release/write your hardware's drivers. It is not FreeBSD's fault. Full stop!
 
Top