FreeBSD system and its share of worldwide use - July 2024

No. Is the same laptop not suspending with FreeBSD?

OpenBSD at least has the advantage that it is not GPLed, so code can be taken from there.
Yes, same one. I tested this with both OS's in the T430 almost a year ago.
Edit: My problem with FBSD wasn't the suspend part (I think), the problem was when I tried to resume. As far as I understood, the system get stuck between the suspend and resume process, because the screen get stuck showing TTY1 (even if I was in X when I suspended), sometimes it go back to a broken X (trackpad and keyboard don't work) or I need to hardreset to get the system back. Maybe it was in the suspend part, because if I left the note in a bag it gets very hot, so maybe the hardware is still on (this also happens with the Latitude5400, never tested obsd on it).
 
I'm sure everyone has a similar story, but my wife owns an exercise studio. I recently bought her a new Mac as the one she had was too old for something. Unfortunately, the studio's old HP printer wouldn't work. I went through calling Apple care and after about 40 minutes of wasted effort, it was escalated to someone who told me that printer is no longer supported. In the end, she's keeping the old iMac around just for printing purposes. I offered to set up a Linux or 'BSD laptop to do it, but she says there's no more room on the desk, which is pretty much true, and the studio does almost no printing anymore (like everyone else).
 
I have a dream! When I will retire then I wish to have a pc which will run FreeBSD exclusively. The desktop manager will be very comfortable to work with, and when I finished with the readings of this forum then I would like to fire up GOG, Steam or whatever will be and play a game smoothly because it has a native FreeBSD client. That's all I want :)
 
I have a dream! When I will retire then I wish to have a pc which will run FreeBSD exclusively
Excluding the retirement part, I went down that road about two years ago. Two out of three of my desktop computers are only running FreeBSD - including my laptop.
Has been a very positive experience so far.
 
Excluding the retirement part, I went down that road about two years ago. Two out of three of my desktop computers are only running FreeBSD - including my laptop.
Has been a very positive experience so far.
Exactly. I do not see how this is connected to retirement. I have had these FreeBSD only PC-s over 15 years now, but I am still not retired...
 
Exactly. I do not see how this is connected to retirement. I have had these FreeBSD only PC-s over 15 years now, but I am still not retired...
One way it is connected is external obligations. Before my wife and I retired, we did a lot of work with graphics arts stuff. That pretty much requires that you use the Adobe suite, both for seamless file sharing with clients and contract artists and so you can use the same plugins, and the Adobe suite does not run on FreeBSD. Now retired, I can use what tools I like. Recently I moved a project that used Adobe InDesign with an Excel spreadsheet to date stamp copies of a form, and have fields that vary with day of week, over to FreeBSD. I used LibreCAD, GIMP, and a shell script that uses date, enscript, and pdftk to build the forms. The result is a lot more flexible than the original InDesign/Excel solution was.
 
One way it is connected is external obligations. Before my wife and I retired, we did a lot of work with graphics arts stuff. That pretty much requires that you use the Adobe suite, both for seamless file sharing with clients and contract artists and so you can use the same plugins, and the Adobe suite does not run on FreeBSD. Now retired, I can use what tools I like. Recently I moved a project that used Adobe InDesign with an Excel spreadsheet to date stamp copies of a form, and have fields that vary with day of week, over to FreeBSD. I used LibreCAD, GIMP, and a shell script that uses date, enscript, and pdftk to build the forms. The result is a lot more flexible than the original InDesign/Excel solution was.
Agree.
 
Also agree. I think most doctors and dentists, to name two, use probably expensive software that will only run Windows, and maybe Apple. I'm sure that's true for many trades and professions--all the tools will either be Windows only or at best, also run on Mac.

I feel like I read, long ago, that Mark Shuttleworth got various businesses on board to make Linux versions, because of his success in business or something like that. However it's a vague memory. Maybe it was true back when Ubuntu was new and surprisingly popular. And for awhile, it did seem like it a Linux where everything worked out of the box like Windows, at least the basic stuff, which often didn't work so well on other versions of Linux, e.g., sound, wireless, etc.
 
It would be interesting to see where FreeBSD sits in terms of server usage. The stats that teo linked are lacking this info.
In the All Platforms tab, the FreeBSD system does not exist. Only the world's most widely used quota systems are displayed in this order....

All Platforms:

Operating System Market Share Worldwide - July 2024

Android: 45.19%
Windows: 25.98%
iOS: 18.35%
OS X: 5.37%
Unknown: 2.64%
Linux: 1.61%

And the FreeBSD system? There is no FreeBSD.

The source of the information is in the image.
 
I think most doctors and dentists, to name two, use probably expensive software that will only run Windows, and maybe Apple. I'm sure that's true for many trades and professions--all the tools will either be Windows only or at best, also run on Mac.
This is true because the user is a doctor and dentist and not a professional computer person. Professional computer people, and serious hobbyists, want to venture into areas that they feel are more flexible and more powerful. They want that because they are aware of the technicals. Doctors and dentist (and etc.) often have no clue about any of that. All they want is the familiarity of what they use at home.
 
… Most of what I can find regarding these developments seems to have fizzled out around 2022 but I *REALLY* hope I'm missing things.

You're missing status reports (from the FreeBSD Project), and news from The FreeBSD Foundation; there's overlap.

2024, second quarter: more than thirty src commits to LinuxKPI and net80211 code.
 

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calling Apple care and after about 40 minutes of wasted effort, it was escalated to someone who told me that printer is no longer supported.
WOW! :oops: You actually get some real information out of Apple support!
Must been talking to some chief engineer.
All I got from Apple support was so much aggression I started fantasizing about bombing their building.


I wish to have a pc which will run FreeBSD exclusively.
That's what I'm doing for over five years by now.
Not only PC. All my machines: exclusively FreeBSD, only.
Works fine.
And I'm yet not retired either.

(This is not ment for you, zsolt, but general for possible external readers: )
It may not be possible for every situation.
E.g. you get a company's laptop you have to work with, or special software, only available on Windows/Apple.
But in most cases collaboration is to work on files.
The software you edit the files with is secondary.

You need to learn to do the work otherwise, mostly reconsider your workflow.
When you started computering with Windows doing things wrong is your reference.
So you need to learn how to do things right. :cool:
Often it's simply just to use and learn another tool.
But within unix-world you have to learn most things once.
You don't have to relearn everything again, when a new version also changed the (G)UI.
Check out some packages. Browse the ports tree - 'dig the gold mine.'
E.g. tipp: If you doing graphics, don't use Gimp, only, try ImageMagick (if you never heard of it before).
It's for graphics what ffmpeg is for media - very powerful.

Anyway in almost all cases there is a way how it's doable.

And once you got the hang on it:
The result is a lot more flexible
And more efficient.
Hence the CLI.


I think most doctors and dentists, to name two, use probably expensive software that will only run Windows

This is true because the user is a doctor and dentist and not a professional computer person.

Almost all physicians I know use Apple.
It's simply that they have to chose from software recommended by their association, which needed to be licensed to standardizations also by their association, the health insurance companys, and other laws.
As long as the system works reliably, and does its job, of course they don't care about what's below.

Those systems for medical offices are complete package solutions delivered by companys specialized on that.
software, hardware, installation, support, schooling, maintenance - all inclusive.
Only the computer interested physician may ask some special question.
But after all it's just a service deal they contract, so they got a reliable system they can work with, and no need to bother about anything, except call a technician if anything needs to be done.

The computers are the least cost of the whole package.
As in every business you get a margin on everything you just buy and sell again.
So the service supplier would be stupid to sell cheaper systems than Apple.
And he also don't have to need much expertise about the OS.
If you don't give a shit about what Apple all sucks out of you and your system - your customer's machines,
but just bravely do everything what they tell you, you get a rock solid reliable working system you simply need to buy some new hardware every 5..9 years for.
Whereas the period to buy new hardware with Windows is shorter. Plus it's not that stable (at least Windows did a lot in the past to earn that reputation). Plus you have to pay periodic license fees.

As long as no developer offers his software for FreeBSD, or Linux,
and there is a real need for them to leave Windows, and Apple, e.g. systems become unreliable, too much maintaining, or costs rises (most costs are for the user software anyway),
they don't change. Of course not. Why should they?
 
In the All Platforms tab, the FreeBSD system does not exist. Only the world's most widely used quota systems are displayed in this order....

All Platforms:
"All Platforms" is an incorrect term:

It only contains:
  • Desktop
  • Tablet
  • Mobile
FreeBSD does not really cater to any of them. In many ways it is surprising it even shows up as 0.01%!

"All Platforms" should also include:
  • Server
  • Embedded
In which case I am sure we will see FreeBSD being quite a bit higher. Possibly around 5%.
 
We have partial support for bluetooth, wifi, thunderbolt, and USB3 and all development has come to a halt. No one simply cares enough; there's no incentive. FreeBSD's device driver model sucks for desktop also. We could use something like I/Okit.
Who's setting goals for the whole FreeBSD project? I see a lot of talks from FreeBSD foundation about desktop usage, they're also spread idea that FreeBSD can be used as a Desktop platform, at the same time they really want to promote FreeBSD to extend user base (thanks to new initiative on YouTube, etc).

At the same time I see a lot of reports and common issues from people on that forum, they shared common issues as you mentioned: Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, usb3, etc.

So I wonder how's setting goals for the FreeBSD project?
Is it developers only? The core team only? What's the role of the FreeBSD foundation in that process? Are these goals always about server usage, or desktop is also taking portion of it?

And why nobody raising an idea that if FreeBSD devs will try to address these common issues it might help to spread it as a desktop! People who used it as a desktop and seen how great that system is, so sysadmins might use it more as a server solution as well. It's so clear to me. Why I'm alone with that idea?

Fo8N2siXwAUGs1A.jpg
 
Personally I don't have any skin in this game. I'm just a user and I love FreeBSD for the use cases I run it in. If I did hold a position of authority in the governing of FreeBSD as a product, I'd put down a roadmap for it that includes as much personal developer buy-in as I could possibly organize (because that's essentially "free beer") and then look at any potholes in the road to see where external funding would have the most beneficial effect towards our roadmap. Now I'm sure there are people of intelligence running this show and I'm not telling anybody anything new here. I'm also assuming that the governing of the FreeBSD project works along similar lines and it's not a matter of "not caring enough", but of priority. And the end of a team's resources, the priorities below the water line do not get addressed until they bubble up to the surface.

This comes down to: is the desktop use case a strategic priority to FreeBSD as a project/product? If not, then the current situation, being what it is, is by design and accepted. If it is a priority, then some change may be in order. Who's in a position to answer the fundamental strategic question though, and did anyone ask them before the Foundation's bathroom tile was thrown out into the world?
 
I will express my humble opinion as a user of FreeBSD on this topic (although I am not an everyday desktop user, I thinker only on my home server every day). Which regards adoption of FreeBSD on desktops, I think the best is to have a separate build called for example: FreeBSD-14.1-RELEASE-amd64-desktop.img when new users would like to try FreeBSD for the first time. The installation by default must be by GUI and alternatively by ncurses (for experts). Also, when you finished with the installation then it would be awesome to have some wizards in order to install the graphics drivers, sound, wireless and so on. Also, a gui for a package manager and system updates, too. In its current form I think FreeBSD is a server operating system which you can use it also on the desktop if you know how (manually install xorg, kde, login manager etc etc). Probably many new users would like to see something on the screen first, then learn to use it. That is what happened to me when I was a kid, first I sat down in front of the computer start moving the mouse in Windows 98 then later I started to learn for example how to install the sound driver.
 
FreeBSD is a project, that creates a general purpose operating system. It is not a "business" for making money, it is not a product. And I hope it never will be one.

When it comes to attracting a larger userbase - I have one question: why? No seriously - why? New users all seems to want the same thing; changing FreeBSD into something it is not.

What FreeBSD needs are more developers.

The users that FreeBSD gains most from are the ones that find it, takes the necessary time to learn it (despite the lack of "user friendly" or "modern" documentation, youtube videos and whatnot) and then sticks with it. Not people who are just in it for an hour or two to try the latest thing they have seen on youtube.
 
I'm using Firefox with default settings. I just googled "my browser user agent" and this is what I got:
Screenshot at 2024-08-09 12-33-20.png


Next I open about:config and added new string:
general.useragent.override = Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD x86_64; rv:129.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/129.0

Now let's test it again, better!
Screenshot at 2024-08-09 12-33-02.png
 
FreeBSD is a project, that creates a general purpose operating system. It is not a "business" for making money, it is not a product. And I hope it never will be one.

When it comes to attracting a larger userbase - I have one question: why? No seriously - why? New users all seems to want the same thing; changing FreeBSD into something it is not.

What FreeBSD needs are more developers.

The users that FreeBSD gains most from are the ones that find it, takes the necessary time to learn it (despite the lack of "user friendly" or "modern" documentation, youtube videos and whatnot) and then sticks with it. Not people who are just in it for an hour or two to try the latest thing they have seen on youtube.
FreeBSD is a "base" operating system. It has a bunch of DEs and WMs like Mate, KDE, CDE, Xfce, twm, and much more.

And which DEs/WMs are wanted is depending on users.
If defaulting to single DE, users who want it would attracted, but others would silently go away.
Let other projects like GhostBSD or something to do so, and keep FreeBSD itself as a "base" looks good to me. If any of GUI variants attracts a huge amaout of users, some of them are happy to pay for it, and the fact attracts commercial developers to earn by "support business" and feedbacks a bunch of really good codes as BSD-compatible license, FreeBSD can get the advantages as their base.
There can be per-GUI (DEs/WMs) variants, theoretically.

Most important things for FreeBSD itself would be up-to-date hardware supports, stability, safety and speed. Of course, hardware support should include not only data-center grade but also cutting edge notebooks and gaming PCs (as usually has most computing [CPU/GPU] power within consumer grade hardwares).
 
Aren't these things related? More users = more developers.
They are related, but not the same - the equal sign has got to go.
To gain more developers, you need the right kind of users, the ones that are curious, interested and determined enough to really dig into whatever problems or challenges they face and try to figure out a solution, or at least exactly what the problem is. And then report it through the proper channels (which they also need to figure out).
 
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