FreeBSD-friendly laptop recommendations

if the remapping works by programming the kbd controller then it's most likely ok.
if it's a driver + bios thing then it's probably annoying as its os dependent and probably won't work very well in vm players
i tried all kind of software remappers on the mac (when using pc kbds) and they all sucked in a way or another
 
dbdemon said:
… would probably have to be a slightly older model. Possibly used/refurbished? …
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dbdemon have you formed any opinion from suggestions on page one? I'll broaden my previous suggestion.

Any HP notebook with essential components (e.g. audio, graphics, Wi-Fi) that can be driven with the combination of FreeBSD base plus ported software.

One hint: take care of the keyboard. They're suitabily resilient, however some of the more modern designs might be surprisingly awkward (or costly) to replace, if replacement becomes necessary.
 
covacat said:
if the remapping works by programming the kbd controller then it's most likely ok.
if it's a driver + bios thing then it's probably annoying as its os dependent and probably won't work very well in vm players
i tried all kind of software remappers on the mac (when using pc kbds) and they all sucked in a way or another
Click to expand...

On the Thinkpads this is remapped in the BIOS, no driver needed (for what?). Had the Fn- and Ctrl key switched since the first day and never had any issues even over VNC, anydesk or HTML5-BMC-consoles (e.g. Supermicro) which usually act weird if you have some software-remapping (let alone any other keymap than qwerty) configured.


Talking about "FreeBSD-friendly" is kind of weird - anything that just uses normal, "off the shelf" and standard-conformant components will work. The problem is usually the "standard conformant" part - lots of vendors will do some weird, proprietary stuff with e.g. multimedia keys and touchpads or have some special chipset version or firmware variants for some components (ASUS and NICs!), that have been fiddled with just enough so the driver won't attach or work with that custom variant.

I've ran FreeBSD for years on some clevo laptop (branded as a label from german reseller one.de) which worked without any issues OOTB. Usually those white-label devices are built with nothing but standard components to keep costs down, so they will 'just work' if the devices are supported by FreeBSD. Stick with Intel platform + Intel NICs and you're usually fine.

OTOH my Thinkpad T16 Gen1 also 'just works'™ - I stuffed some addons in there that don't work (yet) like the smartcard reader or NFC, but that was somewhat expected and I can live without that. Those were only "nice to have" additions and maybe someday they are supported... Support for the GPU is missing, but should be available with 14.1-RELEASE - for my uses as a sysadmin scfb is sufficient until then.

Regarding suspend/resume: as already mentioned this is mostly down to primitive/bad/broken implementations on the BIOS side, so as long as we have to rely on that it simply won't work reliably... But TBH the boot time from NVMe can be easily tweaked to <10seconds until login (xfce; console even faster). E.g. by disabling the waiting for default uplink, not setting the time via ntp at boot and also disabling cups and dbus (if needed at all) at boot. Those two have been by far the slowest services to start for me and are blocking the boot process.
The 1-2 times a day one has to boot a laptop I couldn't care less if it takes 5, 15 or even 30 seconds to be ready...
 
grahamperrin said:
One hint: take care of the keyboard. They're suitabily resilient, however some of the more modern designs might be surprisingly awkward (or costly) to replace, if replacement becomes necessary.
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I did have a Sandy Bridge ultrabook about 10 years ago (HP Folio 13). The keyboard on that one was not bad, but shopping for a compatible replacement showed that spares run $80 USD and up - in 2015 prices! And yeah, it was awkward to re-seat the ZIF cables there.

Funny enough, that laptop still in service in my family, in spite of a battery that won't charge any more. And I have to consider the benefits of splurging $150 on a replacement battery (which is becoming increasingly difficult to find) versus getting something that is more up to date, and easier to get help with.
 
Thinkpads, I now have 3. x230 works like a charm, only the brightness control is AWOL since 14.
An Ideapad3, works. S3 works, runtime is about 7h on battery on idle under 13.2.
Thinkpad A485 - camera does funky colors. S3 works now since I found the curlpit.

What you need to do is disable the TPM chip in BIOS and not load cryptodev.
 
Crivens said:
Thinkpads, I now have 3. x230 works like a charm, only the brightness control is AWOL since 14.
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I may have missed it but sometimes that can be resolved by the following (if you haven't already done so):

  • Load the i915kms GPU driver
or
  • Load the acpi_ibm driver
Glad you resolved the resume issue. Fun how the trusted platform module is still such a useless pain in the butt.

sko said:
for better battery runtime? or what else solves this?
Click to expand...
Usually it resolves suspend / resume issues.
 
grahamperrin said:
dbdemon have you formed any opinion from suggestions on page one? I'll broaden my previous suggestion.

Any HP notebook with essential components (e.g. audio, graphics, Wi-Fi) that can be driven with the combination of FreeBSD base plus ported software.

One hint: take care of the keyboard. They're suitabily resilient, however some of the more modern designs might be surprisingly awkward (or costly) to replace, if replacement becomes necessary.
Click to expand...
I've got the Sandy Bridge era HP 8560w, 8760w and 8770w. Mix of AMD and NVIDIA graphics cards. All perform great for my purposes. I use them with an HP Extended Dock of that particular era. Recently I've switched the operating systems on a couple of them, such that if I want to run Linux or Mac OS, I can just switch the laptop out.

I bought these at absolute junk prices, like between $40 and $100 each, but now they've skyrocketed for some reason. Not worth more than that. It's still a 12 year old machine, but an "Intel Core i7 with 32GB of RAM" for $400 looks great to people who don't know what they are looking at, so I imagine that's who they are targeting.

Would suggest OP or esteemed reader avoids macbooks, too picky and fiddly to get working.
 
netbsd friendly laptop
1702410548663.png
 
smithi said:
Another plus for Thinkpads is the wikis devoted to them, so there's a fan base, albeit mostly Linux based.
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It would be nice to stimulate some FreeBSD interest there...


smithi said:
With Thinkpads it seems basically the older the better, but kidz want speeed as ever.

My beloved (IBM) T23 only expired two years ago. 1133MHz P-III but a keyboard to die for. I'd bought it used C.2005 so got 15 years of merciless flogging out if it.

And I have two X200, one with broken fan, with the older great keyboard & working suspend. I must be getting old ...
Click to expand...

I have lost count of the number ThinkPads I have accumulated, although they all seem to run FreeBSD without a problem, even my X21, although I haven't fired that up for ages.
 
Just wondered if anyone knew which (FreeBSD-friendly) Wi-Fi card I could install in an X61 once Middleton BIOS has been installed...
 
balanga said:
Just wondered if anyone knew which (FreeBSD-friendly) Wi-Fi card I could install in an X61 once Middleton BIOS has been installed...
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I have an Intel 8265 AC card, that is definitely FreeBSD-friendly. Do be careful with the wire connectors inside. After I pulled cables off the original card, I discovered that I snapped the connectors on the card off, and cannot plug cables back in. You can look for that card on Froogle or Amazon.
 
balanga said:
Just wondered if anyone knew which (FreeBSD-friendly) Wi-Fi card I could install in an X61 once Middleton BIOS has been installed...
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www.tp-link.com

150Mbps Wireless N Nano USB Adapter

TL-WN725N upgrades your WiFi speeds up to 150Mbps for lag-free video streaming and internet calling. Cover your entire home with 2.4GHz WiFi. Plug it in and forget it's even there.
www.tp-link.com www.tp-link.com

/boot/loader.conf
Code: 
if_rtwn_usb_load="YES"
 
cmoerz said:
I believe, anything on iwm() is generally well working (see description section).
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Thanks, generally true.

<https://man.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=iwm&sektion=4&manpath=freebsd-release#DESCRIPTION>


Bugging iwn(4), when reported in 2021:

256957 – Wi-Fi: rc.conf(5) NOAUTO, ifconfig(8) up and unwanted WLAN connections to open networks

bugs.freebsd.org bugs.freebsd.org

Given the security aspect: strictly speaking, highest priority might be appropriate, however it's in FreeBSD base (not the ports collection), so I used my discretion at triage time, left it at medium priority (affects some people).

I'll review with iwm(4).


Postscript: in retrospect, a private report would have been better for a security issue, my bad. With or without privacy there: it's the type of bug that would have been discussed in public sooner or later, for example:

bsduck said:
… a random unprotected network in the neighbourhood. …
Click to expand...
 
Thank you, everyone, for all your suggestions and sharing of experiences - much appreciated!

And apologies for abandoning the thread. I was a little overwhelmed with all the responses, and then I was distracted with family life/work/Christmas.
grahamperrin said:
dbdemon have you formed any opinion from suggestions on page one? I'll broaden my previous suggestion.

Any HP notebook with essential components (e.g. audio, graphics, Wi-Fi) that can be driven with the combination of FreeBSD base plus ported software.

One hint: take care of the keyboard. They're suitabily resilient, however some of the more modern designs might be surprisingly awkward (or costly) to replace, if replacement becomes necessary.
Click to expand...
Well, it sounds like the recommendation here is any Lenovo Thinkpad X or T series, maybe Thinkbook, or a HP notebook (your recommendation). And it has to be Intel or AMD GPU, not Nvidia, although that works for some users/models. And of course, a Frame.work laptop would be wonderful, although I suspect it's going to be outside of my price range, or maybe hard to find due to limited availability?

Incidentally, I have come across a refurbished Thinkpad X250 for approx. GBP 170, but it says it has max 8GB RAM only. I'm unsure if it's what I want or not. So many considerations, it makes my head spin!
 
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