Forum for non-English speakers?

sidetone

Daemon

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Seems more like a part of those populations disliking each other, and wanting to express that, rather than language differences.
 

rigoletto@

Daemon
Developer

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Well, not quite. Naturally, European languages are heavily influenced by European politics; e.g. Romance languages wouldn't exist without ancient Romans and their conquests. Are they artificial too? Is that even a useful designation?
For me it is there is a clear difference between a language that naturally evolved and another that was invented to severe a population from another people for second reasons. The fact the Ukrainian language had to be actively promoted by the Ukrainian government and at some extent still needs, doesn't sounds like a language that naturally evolved and is part of the identity of some people.

That's a peculiar way of spelling XVI century and Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth :-/
I little earlier then. But in fact it doesn't matter since Ukraine is unlikely to exist (at least as a independent country) in the next 10-25 years, except if they find some 'Lee Kuan Yew' quality leader, what seems impossible at this point. In this scenario they need an external support they don't have.

The west (anything at west of Ukraine) already got what they wanted out of the "Maiden", and now Ukraine is worthless for them again, bye. Their only option besides moving deeper into misery and chaos is coming back to Russia arms, but that would probably be as costly as never before, and the West is likely to put the finger again and the whole process restart again.

If everyone involved (except Ukraine of course) finally decide to actually break this never ending Ukraine game, there is quite high probability of Ukraine being broken in several pieces to be annexed by the closest neighbors, Poland, Slovakia, Russia etc. The International Law to justify it can be addressed on-the-fly, and this is the most sane thing to do with Ukraine.

In other words, a nation that was more-or-less invented hardly will be respected by its pairs, and the way the Ukrainian "elite" is constructing the new Independent Ukrainian identity just make the things even worse. Things like establishing traitors (Mazepa) and loosers (Bandera) as national "idols" (basically adopting any symbol provided it is not Russian) can't bring anything good for Ukraine.
 

vigole

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We have the off-topic section, profile posts & personal conversations for casual chit-chat. Much better than TV!
Exactly. And fellas can save extra money. That is why people should donate to FreeBSD.
And even better idea: There can be a separate donation section, exclusively for FreeBSD Forums staff (Moderators, ... I don't know the exact heir). It may help to create extra section.
Mainly because I love FreeBSD Forums and its moderators, but I hate FreeBSD Foundation.
 

vigole

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I was reading Problem with dark theme post. Something came to my mind, that I completely forgot it. There's a big fat problem, if Forums establish a policy to add new language based on usage/popularity or user vote. Everything is fine as long as the proposed language is written in Latin script. Anything other than that, e.g. RTL, complex script, ... will lead to gigantic CSS/font/redesign nightmare. Ask those who are maintaining these type of bilingual websites. I count web design as hard labour jobs, borderline forced labour!

[EDIT]
I completely agree with SirDice
Can we round this off? We barely have enough moderators to keep the English sections in check. So there's no room for any other language sections at the moment.
Read the past comments. Forget it. It just doesn't work.
 

SirDice

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
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There can be a separate donation section, exclusively for FreeBSD Forums staff (Moderators, ... I don't know the exact heir).
We have two (three actually) hidden sections. One is for moderators/admins, the other is accessible to developers only (you're not missing out on anything there, it only has three threads and one sticky that are now 9-10 years old). We also have a "trash" section but I'm not counting that. We use it to dump threads that may need additional scrutiny or could easily be restored (deleting threads is rather destructive).
 

vigole

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SirDice thanks for clarification. Beside the FreeBSD OS itself, I think most important thing about FreeBSD is this very Forums. Frankly I learn most of things from this Forums. In many case way more useful than handbook (I'm not one of those who whine about handbook). And then there's the moderators. I'm sure it's obvious in contrast to other Forums on internet, the amount of help and tolerance toward users (I'm looking at me) is way beyond the high level. There were many cases that I expected to receive a verbal or official warning for my posting, even getting banned. But it didn't happened.
For these and other things, I think it is fair to have a Specific Donation Section, exclusively for forums and its moderators. People who want to exclusively donate to Forums/Moderator have an opportunity to do this.
 

mjollnir

Daemon

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Don't know why you hate the FreeBSD Foundation, but you could write a polite e-mail along with your donation, stating that you want to support the forum with let's say 1/2 of your donation.
EDIT I write such note in every donation to KDE: "For CI & inter-operability (espc. BSD)" Apparently, it doesn't help much, there're just too few developers outside Linux, so all DEs have too many Linuxisms... :(
 

vigole

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but you could write a polite e-mail along with your donation
Good point, thanks. I wasn't aware that such procedure is possible.

[EDIT] I just want to emphasise on important role of the FreeBSD forums. I don't have any statistics, but I think this forum to FreeBSD project is as arch wiki to Arch linux. Compare it to something like Microsoft or Ubuntu forums. Some people will say Meh, it's just a forums. But I thinks it is as important as handbook. That was my thoughts and I happy I receive some feedback, I appreciate it.
 

mjollnir

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Good point, thanks. I wasn't aware that such procedure is possible.

[EDIT] I just want to emphasise on important role of the FreeBSD forums. I don't have any statistics, but I think this forum to FreeBSD project is as arch wiki to Arch linux. Compare it to something like Microsoft or Ubuntu forums. Some people will say Meh, it's just a forums. But I thinks it is as important as handbook. That was my thoughts and I happy I receive some feedback, I appreciate it.
Exactly. The forum is a an interactive handbook with AI added on top.
Its looks very good, well, I create a separate post to looking people from latin america
who wants to join to iniciative
aponomarenko disappear from the post..so I take the iniciative

A big no...the privacy policy dont look to well
Do not mix argentinian & others during the time when a football/soccer competition is running... ;)
 

wolffnx

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Exactly. The forum is a an interactive handbook with AI added on top.

Do not mix argentinian & others during the time when a football/soccer competition is running... ;)
sorry, I do not understand, I say latin american
and that comment sounds like racist
 

wolffnx

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I only offer a solution or alternative to the original post and want to help the project itself
 

mjollnir

Daemon

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It was not meant to be at all. Sorry if there's a way to understand it that way. Please also note that I added a wink smiley to indicate irony.
 

wolffnx

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It was not meant to be at all. Sorry if there's a way to understand it that way. Please also note that I added a wink smiley to indicate irony.
yes,a see the smiley but I dont get the point..sorry for that,thanks to clarify :D
 

sidetone

Daemon

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wolffnx
It was a joke, on how people from those countries are enthusiastic about their sports teams. Otherwise there's no tension between most of those countries. They speak the same language, and share a culture. Perhaps the joke has to do with how it was described how some Portuguese and Brazilians argued for the sake of wanting to differentiate their cultures and language.
 

wolffnx

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wolffnx
It was a joke, on how people from those countries are enthusiastic about their sports teams. Otherwise there's no tension between those countries. They speak the same language, and share a culture. Perhaps the joke has to do with how it was described how some Portuguese and Brazilians argued for the sake of wanting to differentiate their cultures and language.
yes,here in argentina is like that
and in latin american countries
(for my never liked the soccer)
I had misunderstood the comment of mjollnir
 

judd

Active Member

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If it is that way, why then do you accept us in this forum?

I am really proud to be Argentine, and I am tired of you mjollnir, in addition to treating me like a troll e ignorant.


Please ask an administrator to close my account.



Thank you.
 

wolffnx

Well-Known Member

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If it is that way, why then do you accept us in this forum?

I am really proud to be Argentine, and I am tired of you mjollnir, in addition to treating me like a troll e ignorant.


Please ask an administrator to close my account.



Thank you.
if you not go away yet...🤷‍♂️ ...what happen to you? , including mjollnir ,I newer have a problem with any of the users here related to my country
 

mjollnir

Daemon

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judd My comment was neither meant against your homeland nor any other's, but joking about fanatic football enthusiasts all over the world. I'm sorry it caused confusion and that it can be misinterpretated.
 

judd

Active Member

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@judd My comment was neither meant against your homeland nor any other's, but joking about fanatic football enthusiasts all over the world. I'm sorry it caused confusion and that it can be misinterpretated.
Ok ok Ready.
 

PMc

Aspiring Daemon

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[EDIT] I just want to emphasise on important role of the FreeBSD forums. I don't have any statistics, but I think this forum to FreeBSD project is as arch wiki to Arch linux. Compare it to something like Microsoft or Ubuntu forums. Some people will say Meh, it's just a forums. But I thinks it is as important as handbook. That was my thoughts and I happy I receive some feedback, I appreciate it.
Meh, it is just a forum. ;)
There were times when we had Usenet. But FreeBSD never wanted to participate in Usenet - instead one was pointed to the mailing list. Which is not a problem, because technically a mailing list can work the same as a Usenet group. But mailing lists were more formal, one had to formally apply to participate, and they were a bit outside of that kinda special Usenet mentality.

But then, the people who brought me my first FreeBSD image were real people, and we met every week at my place, and we were a real usergroup. And this is how problems were solved at that time. But therefore one has to acknowledge that there are other people, and one does not want to do that anymore today. When you look at the discussions here, you find sharing of knowledge, you find interest in figuring out about the problems of others, you find engagement in consulting and giving good advice - but you do not find any sign of interest in the fact that at the other end is a human being. Any participant here might die at any moment, and nobody would ever notice.

People do not want this any more. People do not want to acknowledge that there are other humans. People do not want user groups where they would meet each other and would have to recognize, the other is a human.

With e-mail this was still different - it was known that e-mail is only a rudimentary form of communication, and one would usually after some worthwile of mail exchange, try to arrange to really meet on some occasion. Now, it would seem forums are no less rudimentary communication, as it's still only plain letters - but now a bit more than just ASCII, it has icons and colours and some smileyfaces - giving an illusion of sensual perception. And that seems to suffice.

With the e-mails some other thing occasionally happened. You mithg get into a correspondence with somebody, not bout technical matters, but rather worldview, philosophy or such. And it might happen, you found something to share, and that correnspondence get lengthy, and suddenly you would exchange 30 or 40 kB big mails, pure ASCII. This does not happen in forums, at least not easily. But why?

Wehn you read a text email the old way, where you delibaretly hit on that message and open a reader, you will be entirely focused on that single message - and there will be no windows and icons and colours around signaling whatever. And then the mind recognizes that there is a person who wrote that mail - but there is just ASCII, and no sensory input at all. The mind expects sensory input, it utterly needs the input from gestures, timbre, talking speed and all these sensory nuances in order to properly understand a message - but the mind cannot get to that input.
And then, if you stay focused to the matter, something will happen; and that is well known in asian meditation techniques where they did experiment on sensory deprivation: being unable to connect to the external source of sensory input, the mind will finally break through and consciousely connect to the internal source of input, the collective unconscious. This then is certainly X-files, eh, PSI - but then, it doesn't happen anymore, anyway, because with forums there is so much colors and things, you dont get in sensory deprivation even if staying focused - and few people will stay focused for more than 10 seconds, not to mention an hour or so - and they need their time more urgently for caring about being against each other, due to language or similiar reasons.
 

vigole

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PMc We're on the same page, line by line! in three words: human, email and usenet. Meh! there is a situation:
  1. The other day I had a conversation on telephone with one of my relatives, I said it would be nice to arrange a meetup. she said, corona.
  2. Moving from BBS to Usenet, I understand. Transition from usenet to forums, a mystery tour.
  3. Email is a major obstacle. Suggest it to people, as an alternative to messengers. First, you hear whining. Second don't expect any reply. Finally, you will be branded as a throwback.
 
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PMc

Aspiring Daemon

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PMc We're on the same page, line by line! in three words: human, email and usenet. Meh! there is a situation:
The other day I had a conversation on telephone with one of my relatives, I said it would be nice to arrange a meetup. she said, corona.
This is dangerous, and I will probably soon die from it. I am living alone, there is no one here I could talk to - so I used to frequently travel around and visit certain cultural events (of a rather specific taste ;) ) to get among people. There is nothing of this anymore, I am bound to stay in my room like I were locked into a cage, and never talk to anybody. There was a psychologist who stated that people would actually need caressing otherwise they get ill. I'm not sure about that, but certainly people need to talk to each other in a real way, otherwise they soon get crazy and very likely seriously ill. (Not all animal can be kept in cage. Some just die, for no apparent reason.)

Moving from BBS to Usenet, I understand. Transition from usenet to forums, a mystery tour.
The forums are disappearing by long, already. Many of the special ones are degrading or almost dead, some have closed already 5 years or longer ago. I can somehow understand the transition to forums (more simple for the user, more control for the owner), but I do entirely not understand where people have been moving to and what they use now after they left the forums. And this is two-fold: there probably are new people coming to the internet, with new habits, and these might be satisfied with just clicking 'like' on facebook. But then, 15-20 years ago one could run a forum on some very specific topic, even on rather weird and deviant matters, and there was some gathering of people, and these -people and forums- seem to have just disappeared from the net.

So here on FreeBSD things are really late - this forum appeared when others were already closing. Probably technical support is one of these things were forums do continue to exist: someone appears with a technical issue, and some other know it an can easily help, so this is only a matter of writing it up.
But Forums about philosophical things, where it is not direct problem-solving, but sharing and reflecting of ideas, and where one could express some paragraphs of genuine thinking and discuss that - this does not happen anymore. Those forums did close around 2010 and just kept their wealth of content online - but then as they figured that it cost continuosely to keep a domain online, one after another they entirely disappeared. (I am not sure about other contries, but in german-speaking area there were some adventurous and challenging places that I am missing very much.)
And I wonder what has happened - have people just stopped thinking, all together, all over the planet?

Addendum: ---
Thinking over it, it seems to me that in the current Internet, only those places continue to exist where one can give away money. As an example, say one might be interested in parapsychology. There is a huge business associated for making money, the so-called "esoteric healers" (of all kinds and fashions) - and these webpages have never changed, they are present on the net just like they were 20 years ago. But then there were other pages, which were not focused on money-making, but on exchange among people, to freely share and discuss experiences. And those have gone.
---

Email is a major obstacle. Suggest it to people, as an alternative to messengers. First, you hear whining. Second don't expect any reply. Finally, you will be branded as a throwback.
Ah, yes, that happened to me also. Sometimes it sounds: "yes, I have email, but I do not answer them". Or sometimes, this is just what happens. I always understood that as a way of saying <i don't want to stay in contact with you> - which is to be respected, but is still kind of strange when this developed from a meet at some venue with some brilliant exchange and the shared impression that it should be continued.


So, finally, getting back on topic: it might actually be difficult to run a language specific FreeBSD forum. It might be considered too much hassle (or whatever) to participate in such a forum. The larger audience is reached in the english forum anyway, so such a language-forum would mainly be a bit more intimate place - I would think that nice, but that's exactly what seems to be no longer of interest on the net. Strangely, otoh, when we started to use Unix/FreeBSD, we had enough to talk that we did meet once a week, regularly. And that was just us few guys in that city, at a time when running a computer was a rare habit.
 

vigole

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But Forums about philosophical things, where it is not direct problem-solving, but sharing and reflecting of ideas
Good point. I have never thought about it before in this context.
This is dangerous, and I will probably soon die from it. I am living alone.
It's not a bad idea to have a meetup section or just one sticky thread in this forums. FreeBSD users can arrange local meetup in their towns. It's healthy.
 
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