Do FreeBSD developers "eat their own dogfood"?

Trihexagonal said:
I must be the luckiest guy running a FreeBSD desktop because in 12 years of doing so I've never had a problem I couldn't figure out either by working with it, google-fu, or searching the forums given enough time (This is a disclaimer), or had hardware that wasn't supported.

Maybe it's that I run older hardware, but it suits my purposes for everyday general desktop use and is what I prefer to run. (Has your brand machine flown on the Space Shuttle, Mir, or International Space Station?) There isn't one thing I want to do on my FreeBSD boxen that I cannot do and could be doing on a Linux box, or a Windows machine for that matter.

I currently have 3 FreeBSD laptops and 1 OpenBSD laptop, and with the exception of one of my FreeBSD laptops that had a HDD failure a couple weeks ago are the only computers I have in use. All of them run x11-wm/fluxbox and the same limited number of programs I found over time to do the work I need done, except OpenBSD doesn't have multimedia/xmms so I use multimedia/audacious on it.

Not everybody wants a DE that is reminiscent of Windows and has a plethora of programs included with it. Window has Linux now, if that's what you want you may well be happier using it.

Now in all honesty, and the reason for my disclaimer, I did struggle with Optimus on my Thinkpad W520. But I looked through the forums and saw a photo from a guy who had the same multiple renditions of the bootscreen and knew to use a Mode option during boot to bypass that issue. I did manage to get to the desktop but it had 640x480 resolution when native is 1920x1080 and at the time I was too tired to mess with it any further and put it off till I had more time to figure it out.

And embarrassing as it is to admit, having never had hardware issues I was not familiar with the xrander command and hadn't read about it the Handbook or I could have resolved the issue right then and there. It was not long after I heard about new security innovations being introduced in OpenBSD 6.2 and built it on my W520. I know what to do now if I want to switch it back though.



I can only guess how many screenshots I've posted over the years, I've even seen some of them on a google search for FreeBSD wallpapers. To the point it's almost boring for me since the only thing that ever changes is the wallpaper, let alone everyone else. so I don't flood the tread but have posted them in other forums.

Wrote a tutorial for beginners on how to set up a FreeBSD desktop, too. Spent my own money on a domain for a site to post it on before returning to the forums and hand coded it in valid XHTML and CSS.

If FreeBSD Mall ever sends it I've had an order in since August 3rd for a Power To Serve T-shirt, FreeBSD baseball cap and sheet of stickers. I already have a Classic FreeBSD T-shirt. :)

I tried talking the Assistant Executive Director of the apartment complex I reside in to switching their office machines to FreeBSD but he didn't even know what FTP was...
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Why do you have OpenBSD laptop too? Just for comparison or this is the need?

As for me, I just wanna make a choice of one OS for any purpose and ... maybe some business :). FreeBSD nearly what I want and I've tried a lot of stuff last 6 years and every time rollback to FreeBSD. It's most usable bunch of software and everything I wish for the project is just a more great developers, more ideas, more "homemade" creations and more admiration from other societies.
 
vall said:
Why you have OpenBSD laptop too? Just for comparison or this is the need?

As for me, I just wanna make a choice of one OS for any purpose and ... maybe some business :). FreeBSD nearly what I want and I've tried a lot of staff last 6 years and every time rollback to FreeBSD. It's most usable bunch of software and everything I wish for the project is just a more great developers, more ideas, more "homemade" creations and more admiration from other societies.
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I had an OpenBSD desktop several years ago but the power supply went out on that Dell tower. I had a pfSense Dell tower at the time, too, and together they were electricity hogs compared to my laptops so I never fixed the one and retired the other.

I had read an article about upcoming kernel security innovations that were being implemented in OpenBSD 6.2 and wanted to get in on that, so it looked like a good time to build another one. It helps expand my overall knowledge of BSD, too.

In terms of operation they are virtually identical, with the exception of a few slight differences in how things are done I've outlined in another thread. FreeBSD ports are more up to date. OpenBSD has a reputation as being one of, if not the most secure Operating System there is. If you like FreeBSD best I'm all for it. I usually use my FreeBSD laptops most but happen to be using my OpenBSD box today.


As for my prior thread, I neglected to mention the want of "flashy graphics". Mainly because they aren't important to me, I suppose. After 12 years of use my laptops are set up exactly the way I want and like them and nothing ever changes but the wallpaper. I like an operational, working configuration with a dark background so text in the terminal shows up better and that's what my screenshots show. With no icons. Flashy graphics are just so much bling and have no real value IMO.
 
tankist02 said:
It matters because it would encourage developers to improve FreeBSD for desktop.
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I don't know about this. You will start to get things like systemd for "pointless fast bootups". Things that should belong on consumer operating systems, should stay on consumer operating systems like Android and Mac OS X.

tankist02 said:
As of now FreeBSD may not be adequate for people who expect modern desktop features with nice graphics.
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What do you mean by "modern desktop features?". Do you mean limited functionality like Gnome 3 or tablet interfaces like Android? We already have Mate and Xfce and I believe those have the biggest FOSS desktop market share.
 
kpedersen said:
I don't know about this. You will start to get things like systemd for "pointless fast bootups". Things that should belong on consumer operating systems, should stay on consumer operating systems like Android and Mac OS X.
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Oh come on.....there sure will be people asking for it, but this does not mean that the FreeBSD project will adopt "linuxism" or such things....

I think one of the main things that FreeBSD folks like about their operating system is its simple design (does "everything is a file" sound familiar?), and being able to do things with simple "config file" changes. We do not like "everything in one place" -systemd- philosophy, and I doubt this will change...

Adding more features for desktop users does not mean breaking this philosophy, and this can well be achieved without changing the project direction. We do not need 15sec boot time (given that I do not boot more computer 50 times a day)

I think I can put it this way; FreeBSD should not stay as a 80x25 text screen operating system (although, there are some who like to call dozens of running terminals a GUI, I am not one of those folks - I do use command line a lot, though); it sure must stick to its BSD UNIX roots and its original design principles (Unix Philosophy?), but it also should embrace a wider user community.

Using a terminal all day does not make more techy...
 
I do consider running a lot of terminals a "GUI", however I do it on KDE because I also like to have a controlled colour and windowing environment to satisfy both my aesthetic needs and physical/mental difficulties. So, as someone who also runs a few Linux boxen with a full fledged GUI, I am extremely confused about what exactly people claim to be missing. Yes, there are a few Plasma-desktop glitches in the FreeBSD port, but nothing, as such, is missing.

WHAT exactly is it that constitutes a "modern desktop features with nice graphics" that is not available for FreeBSD? I can certainly set up all the blinking, slip sliding, multiple workspaces, multiple virtual desktop, unlimited window, rainbow coloured, picture/icon-centric, lightshow workflow with all kinds of shortcuts and lewd pictures and sound effects that I could imagine - should I wish to take it that far. I am quite probably stupid (it's been known to happen), but is it possible that the people who are asking for this are just talking through their hats and in fact haven't even bothered to install a "modern desktop" before making their proclamations? It really does look like it to me.
 
OJ said:
WHAT exactly is it that constitutes a "modern desktop features with nice graphics" that is not available for FreeBSD? I can certainly set up all the blinking, slip sliding, multiple workspaces, multiple virtual desktop, unlimited window, rainbow coloured, picture/icon-centric, lightshow workflow with all kinds of shortcuts and lewd pictures and sound effects that I could imagine - should I wish to take it that far. I am quite probably stupid (it's been known to happen), but is it possible that the people who are asking for this are just talking through their hats and in fact haven't even bothered to install a "modern desktop" before making their proclamations? It really does look like it to me.
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Dancing baloney.
 
I run FreeBSD here everywhere. I have a whopping great desktop from ixsystems that eats code for breakfast and still runs super quiet, and a recently acquired Dell XPS13 which runs 12.0-CURRENT beautifully. The drm-next branch has been a life saver for the last 18 months with modern GPU support and even suspend to RAM works. I'd post screenshots but its pretty boring - i3 with 6+ terminals, and a browser. booooooring but super fast and functional. If I didn't need the browser I'd guess everything would run < 0.5GiB RAM.
 
Good for you. I still remember "...its for SERVERS... no need a stinky desktop..." FreeBSD devs attitude. Lets hope it vanished with macOS popularity among FreeBSD devs ;)
 
I would love to contribute to FreeBSD kernel hacking, but I lack the skills, and due to other commitments I'm only very slowly improving my skills in that area.

There are a number of *little things I would love to address, but they are purely desktop/workstation issues, and it's a pity the devs don't have the resources / inclination to deal with it.

Having said that, I'm pretty happy with FreeBSD as a laptop / workstation OS. But it seems like OpenBSD has made real strides in some areas, where FreeBSD is lacking, E.G. OSS vs sndio.
 
tobik@ said:
OSS vs sndio seems like a false dichotomy.
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Well when you mix FreeBSD developers who are using OS X as their desktops and Ubuntu gamers wannabe FreeBSD desktop users who don't make a difference between API audio/driver layer (OSS) and an audio server sndio then you get a new UNIX comedy show called FreeBSD desktop:confused:
 
tobik@ said:
OSS vs sndio seems like a false dichotomy
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You're right - I thought that sndio did not in fact use "audio" and was supposed to supersede it. My mistake - I stand corrected.

Regarding my original statement, that FreeBSD is lacking in some areas (lagging, would have been a better choice), I'm thinking about things (I'm not really qualified to comment on, but here goes) such as memory protection, encryption, PF, thinkpad/laptop support, and some smaller, nice-to-have things like non-root Xorg, and doas.

That's not to say that FreeBSD is lacking or lagging in general, just seems that OpenBSD has made, and continues to make great contributions and advances - especially considering the relative size of the projects. Very impressive - same goes for DragonFlyBSD.

Oko said:
Ubuntu gamers wannabe FreeBSD desktop users...
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Was that jibe directed at me?
 
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