2024: The year of desktop FreeBSD?

fr0xk said:
BSDs can't have this because neither it's necessary nor its possible to have a universal binary package manager for all Unix like systems unless we can translate every syscalls into native os syscalls dynamically. Running a containerised applications still needs a common kernel. BSDs being different is not equivalent to Linux distributions being different. Linux distributions still runs on definitive Linux kernel, even a highly patched Linux kernel would have very much similarities between them. The fragmentation is in userland
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Jose said:
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According to them, Mac stuff is actually on hold 😂

fr0xk : Linux has at least 5 different filesystems available, Slackware uses a pretty old kernel (which still supports firewire and i386, while more recent kernel versions have dropped support for that awhile ago). Linux as a whole switched from
ifconfig to ip (a pain point that I like to point out), and there's more.

Distros still have to keep up with upstream projects for various components like KDE, LibreOffice, Apache, Python, and more. Distrowatch is a good place to keep track of that. It is an enormous effort, every distro has its own policy on how to keep up with upstream. Yeah, security is a consideration, but so is availability of people who have a handle on the distro's build system and know what they're doing. Those people are volunteers, not paid engineers. Yeah, there are some paid engineers sponsored by Intel, AMD, Microsoft, NVidia, and more.

Then there's one camp that wants one set of components, next camp wants something different, the next camp doesn't like any options, so they roll their own. That's where the fragmentation is. You can certainly borrow Apple's playbook and put in effort to integrate friggin' EVERYTHING, and nail it all down. Results speak for themselves, Apple has more money than Uncle Sam. 😏
 
fr0xk said:
Personally, I propose that Linux distributions need these tools (systemd, flatpak, snaps and nix package managers ) in order to unify their massive fragmentation (even if we discount all derivative distributions and only consider parent distributions). What I don't like is enforcement of these tools
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What's ironic is that the race to "solve" these issues by different distribution communities, results in even more fragmentation. Developers are still caught in a dilemma on which to choose with no future harmoniousness.

It's a never ending cycle of clashing philosophies and/or grabbing mindshare. Linux is broken by design. But hey, it's a convenient driver dumpster. ;)
 
fr0xk said:
Unix systems were originally, and still are, primarily designed for multi-user network environments. A graphical interface was not a top priority. ...
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BaronBS said:
"Windows are for desktops and unixies are for servers. People who use windows in servers are idiots, and people who use unixies in desktops are geeks."
IDK who sad it, but I like it.
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Nicely put (both of you).

Another interesting point is that windows originated from basically a shallow copy of the unix. They more or less copied the bare minimum to make a system capable to run applications, and then followed up only with what the customer base demanded.
And the customer base does not want a fully featured multi-user OS, they don't want to care about the OS at all, they just want to have it working.

And that is still the case: the customer base cares more about the beauty of their window decorations than the beauty of a well-designed OS.
 
PMc said:
Another interesting point is that windows originated from basically a shallow copy of the unix. They more or less copied the bare minimum to make a system capable to run applications, and then followed up only with what the customer base demanded.
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Yes, and it is also well known fact that TCP/IP stack was originally developed in BSD. Do not know how it is today, but originally M$ took the BSD TP/IP code for Windoz.
 
PMc said:
Almost everybody did. It is ours. We made the Internet happen. <very big grin>
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And that seemed logical (at least to me 29 years ago) to pick for Internet services and operating system, where IP protocol is native to the system. That means BSD defined the standard and others needed to comply.
 
fr0xk said:
A lot of Linux distributions are used by casual desktop users (intermediate skills, who do more than listening to music and browsing the web, know a bit about few command line tools like adding or removing packages, but not to the level of Unix-bearded sed -i bunch of /([^.*]\ #// ) piped to other ${var@} piped to grep then piped to another tool with 7 parameters like -uAdgcrs) level too
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Heh that reminded me of this fun line I made to launch surf browser with a game window (kind-of standalone):

Code: 
GDK_BACKEND='x11' surf -a 'a' -b -D -f -g -I -k -m -n -S -t -x 'http://localhost:8888'
 
I have said this before in other threads, but thought of another way to say it here: [ feel free to correct me ]; Many governments and businesses and colleges and entertainment venues and workplaces, from about 2012? onward, impose a time penalty or a finanical penalty, of sorts, or BOTH, on users of operating systems that do not out-of-the-box include easy printer setup AND a wide variety of printers with which to print pdf's, jpg and/or png files, docx and/or spreadsheet files, AAAANNNNDDD all it would take to ensure a continuing larger adoption of this operating system is, for example, a readily available [ one for europe, one for the americas, ? a 3rd for ??? ] TESTED AS WORKING ecotank printer, preferably with copy capability, as well as a color laser, preferably with copy capability, and a 3rd, for about six printers from which to choose as a way to not inconvenience the user by having to use Windows or Linux also. I encourage anyone younger than I with more time and resources to spend some months or a few years in that endeavor... I for one would pay, say, $15 monthly for 3 years toward such an effort and if another 50 persons, would I think it could be paid for, the project participants, one in the USA or canada, one in Europe, a 3rd in ??? and by FreeBSD version 15 or 16, I envision 3 wiki pages " Freebsd working ecotank MFC, freebsd working color laser MFC, 3rd: ??? " to put prominently up at the main FreeBSD.org pages. Additionally, it could benefit longtime users whose printers cease to function as new. { I hope this post is grammatically correct, I am not very rested this morning, sorry! ]
 
I agree, if FreeBSD requires low resources. But unfortunately if we use Desktop. It is a bit difficult to install web browsers like Google Chrome or Yandex. I often experience failure to install both web browsers on the desktop. Is there any solution to help me install Yandex on FreeBSD desktop?
 
jb_fvwm2 said:
I have said this before in other threads, but thought of another way to say it here: [ feel free to correct me ]; Many governments and businesses and colleges and entertainment venues and workplaces, from about 2012? onward, impose a time penalty or a finanical penalty, of sorts, or BOTH, on users of operating systems that do not out-of-the-box include easy printer setup AND a wide variety of printers with which to print pdf's, jpg and/or png files, docx and/or spreadsheet files, AAAANNNNDDD all it would take to ensure a continuing larger adoption of this operating system is, for example, a readily available [ one for europe, one for the americas, ? a 3rd for ??? ] TESTED AS WORKING ecotank printer, preferably with copy capability, as well as a color laser, preferably with copy capability, and a 3rd, for about six printers from which to choose as a way to not inconvenience the user by having to use Windows or Linux also. I encourage anyone younger than I with more time and resources to spend some months or a few years in that endeavor... I for one would pay, say, $15 monthly for 3 years toward such an effort and if another 50 persons, would I think it could be paid for, the project participants, one in the USA or canada, one in Europe, a 3rd in ??? and by FreeBSD version 15 or 16, I envision 3 wiki pages " Freebsd working ecotank MFC, freebsd working color laser MFC, 3rd: ??? " to put prominently up at the main FreeBSD.org pages. Additionally, it could benefit longtime users whose printers cease to function as new. { I hope this post is grammatically correct, I am not very rested this morning, sorry! ]
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I agree with the idea that the OS should have widespread printer support! I've only seen ads for eco-tank printers but like the concept! Kind of gross having to buy 1/4th the cost aftermarket cartridges that have counterfeit ID chips fall off em needed to bypass printer security I didn't sign-up for as an "update", but so far it's still working :p

On Linux I gambled between IPP and sometimes having my HP printer print blurry things, or socket/driver and wondering how long they'll keep that deprecated driver note around before finally axing it. I haven't gotten to printer config yet on FreeBSD, but I have a network printer that seemingly advertises every protocol under the sun and imagine I'll figure something out!
 
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