I genuinely think freebsd would be more popular with a purely bsd eye-candy desktop environment

Zirias said:
Try to tell this to "management" ?
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Story of my career. Turns out they don't like to hear it.

Could be 'cause one tactic for getting rid of a particularly harmful engineer is to "promote" him to management. I haven't seen that happen in a while, though. I wonder if it's still a thing.
 
Jose said:
Story of my career. Turns out they don't like to hear it.

Could be 'cause one tactic for getting rid of a particularly harmful engineer is to "promote" him to management. I haven't seen that happen in a while, though. I wonder if it's still a thing.
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At my workplace, I haven't had to deal with 'harmful engineers'... A few have been "promoted" to management. But the way I look at it is this: their brains had to switch gears. Instead of playing with statistical modeling and designing experiments for collecting the data that drives the decision making, they have to start making very different kinds of decisions - like reminding people of company policy of making Zoom an option for meetings, or approving the purchase of a new server.
1643993389651.png
 
Jose said:
Story of my career. Turns out they don't like to hear it.
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We had an "experiment" lately. Add people to a project behind schedule. Of course, because management was aware of the inherent problems with that idea, they had a "brilliant" other idea: Avoid any contact. Don't "onboard" the new people, just give them separate tasks to work on.

Amazingly, it went well. Of course, that's only because there was close to zero "domain logic" involved. Which is a very special case. Guess what management doesn't want to hear....

I really expect them to consider this a blueprint, can't wait to see the fallout ?

(edit: yes, dilbert is on-spot with these things...)
 
astyle said:
At my workplace, I haven't had to deal with 'harmful engineers'... A few have been "promoted" to management.
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I would take even a harmful engineer promoted to management any day over a non-technical user / business guy being promoted. At least the harmful engineer has *some" knowledge. Granted they will probably be pushing for the very latest version of everything, driving everyone to the cloud and forcing standardization on Microsoft Visual Studio Public Beta XD.
 
From The FreeBSD's Developer Handbook

1.3. Architectural Guidelines

Our ideology can be described by the following guidelines

• Do not add new functionality unless an implementor cannot complete a real application without it.

• It is as important to decide what a system is not as to decide what it is. Do not serve all the world's needs; rather,
make the system extensible so that additional needs can be met in an upwardly compatible fashion.

• The only thing worse than generalizing from one example is generalizing from no examples at all.

• If a problem is not completely understood, it is probably best to provide no solution at all.

• If you can get 90 percent of the desired effect for 10 percent of the work, use the simpler solution.

• Isolate complexity as much as possible.

• Provide mechanism, rather than policy. In particular, place user interface policy in the client's hands.
 
nap said:
...it can be an option for all of those who just want an out of the box experience. No tweaks or headaches. Plain simple eye candy and responsive UI with all the standard features.
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What a soft, fluffy pink cloud you must have envisioned for them...

But you're new to FreeBSD too, aren't you. Possibly still in a period of Grace, experiencing enthused euphoria, not having encountered problems you've yet to acquire the skills to solve. Aspirin won't fix that headache.

That's going to take skills that only come from experience in problem solving, and since you don't have them are probably going to have to ask someone who does.

nap said:
Anyway in the end it's just a vague idea but fun to try.
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Someone will answer them for fun.

The only thing I learned from the 7 years I spent as a beta tester for PC-BSD I didn't teach myself was to not ask questions.

I had taught myself to use ports but had never installed a desktop from scratch til I used somebody's tutorial here. The thing that took me longest and last to figure out how to edit my/etc/alias file. About another 3 years, 10 tears after I started using PC-BSD.

Books not how I learned to use computers, the Handbook not something I read before coming here and not often after. One question all I've asked here.

Are they all going to be Wonderkind?

Or having been spoiled from the start by someone doing everything for them (The crux of your argument in their defense), become frustrated, find a way to blame it in FreeBSD and go scurrying back down the Evolutionary Tree in failure?

Will you feel guilty? Will I throw rocks at them? Will FreeBSD start holding peoples hands? Will I throw rocks at them?
 
astyle said:
If Linux is Spam that you can eat straight out of the can, then FreeBSD is a nice cut of raw Kobe beef that still needs some cooking before it can be served. :p
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There's a better analogy. FreeBSD is like an apple (fruit, not company), you can eat it raw (without desktop), or you can prepare your own apple pie. Of course you need a recipe (documentation) and some skills to do that, so some users prefer pies already made. But pies come with some disadvantage: while you can make an apple pie out of an apple, you can't make an apple out of an apple pie.
 
Friend Of Jolly Devil said:
There's a better analogy. FreeBSD is like an apple (fruit, not company), you can eat it raw (without desktop), or you can prepare your own apple pie. Of course you need a recipe (documentation) and some skills to do that, so some users prefer pies already made. But pies come with some disadvantage: while you can make an apple pie out of an apple, you can't make an apple out of an apple pie.
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Premade pies are easier to deal with (Just stuff one into the oven and bake it, no big mess to clean up), but if you want less sugar/salt, or a different kind of apple in your pie (Pink Lady as opposed to Granny Smith), you're stuck.
 
astyle said:
… you're stuck.
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If I was surprised to learn that the west coast is a stranger to Marmite, I'm in utter despair at learning of the absence of custard.

I mean, smother it, man, smother that tasteless pie with life-enhancing custard until it disappears beneath the surface – blup – and goes down for the third time.

You're welcome :cool:

Friend Of Jolly Devil said:
… while you can make an apple pie out of an apple, you can't make an apple out of an apple pie.
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Stop it. I mean, don't encourage me to make FreeBSD then FreeBSD + KDE Plasma from GhostBSD. Stop. Stop it. Stop encouraging me. Oh, alright, I'll try. Should I succeed, I'll demand to be rewarded with a swimming pool filled with custard. In Hawaii.

1644167591373.png 1644169541534.png 1644170308165.png 1644170452545.png 1644170722917.png …
 
kpedersen said:
I would take even a harmful engineer promoted to management any day over a non-technical user / business guy being promoted. At least the harmful engineer has *some" knowledge. Granted they will probably be pushing for the very latest version of everything, driving everyone to the cloud and forcing standardization on Microsoft Visual Studio Public Beta XD.
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A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and your examples prove it.

Of the two best bosses I've ever had, one was among the most technical, and the other was among the least.

Least-technical good boss didn't blink when I asked for $9,000 in hardware and software to set up a BSDI firewall. He went to the mat with his bosses for my hare brained scheme.

He didn't fire me when I brought down the Vax cluster with my sorcerer's apprentice antics.

Also didn't fire me when I blew up at him because I had too many irons in the fire and the deadlines were stressing me out. He quietly reassigned some of my projects and knew which ones were my least favourite without me telling him.

Recognized shortcomings and gaps in me I didn't see, and made room in the budget to get me training on the company's dime.

By contrast, I've had highly-technical bosses that went along with the BS coming down the corporate hierarchy because they were looking out for number one. They knew that toeing the company line meant bonuses and career advancement. They left us poor sods "in the trenches" holding the bag for the disasters that inevitably ensued.

I hate army metaphors because in a way they're honest. In sick corporate environments the people who actually do the work are seen as cannon fodder, replaceable and expendable in the fight up the corporate ladder.
 
astyle said:
Premade pies are easier to deal with (Just stuff one into the oven and bake it, no big mess to clean up), but if you want less sugar/salt, or a different kind of apple in your pie (Pink Lady as opposed to Granny Smith), you're stuck.
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Pre-made pies usually contain Sy***mD gluten, and some are gluten intolerant. And with FreeBSD you can have an apple and eat a pie, too!
BTW, idea for a picture: Eve giving FreeBSD's logo* to Adam saying "It's a sin not to use it!" ;)

* Contrary to popular belief, in original it wasn't actually an apple. Bible says only about "fruit", and it can be used in different contexts, like "frutti di mare". From a logical perspective, it was actually fruit of a murder - meat. When Adam & Eve ate it, they've realized that they are mortal and can be killed too, and tried to hide.
 
Jose said:
By contrast, I've had highly-technical bosses that went along with the BS coming down the corporate hierarchy because they were looking out for number one. They knew that toeing the company line meant bonuses and career advancement. They left us poor sods "in the trenches" holding the bag for the disasters that inevitably ensued.
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A highly technical boss can usually code and design his way around the BS from upstairs. Then it becomes too complicated to figure out where anything went wrong, so people upstairs finally decide that their idea is probably not worth the effort it requires. :P
Friend Of Jolly Devil said:
Pre-made pies usually contain Sy***mD gluten, and some are gluten intolerant.
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You can always shop around for a GF variant, and give your money to the store that has it in stock. ?
 
Friend Of Jolly Devil said:
With aggressive gluten apple-pie makers it's very unlikely to find any, not to mention a good one. And it's much faster (and healthier) to make your own.
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katzglutenfree.com

Personal Size Apple Pie

Katz Gluten Free is proud to present our delicious, mouthwatering, homemade, gluten-free apple pies! We fill our flaky crust with crisp apples and fragrant cinnamon, creating a pie that tastes like Mama used to make. No one will ever guess the pies are gluten and dairy free.
katzglutenfree.com katzglutenfree.com
How's this? It's amazing what you can find on the Internet these days :P
 
This gluten thing has gotten out of hand. Out of nowhere, it seems, every third person doesn't want gluten because....because...uh....er...

Yes, I understand there are people with real problems with gluten but, I owned several restaurants, and it really did seem like every third person was concerned about gluten while ordering food in a sandwich shop.
 
drhowarddrfine said:
This gluten thing has gotten out of hand. Out of nowhere, it seems, every third person doesn't want gluten because....because...uh....er...

Yes, I understand there are people with problems with gluten but, I owned several restaurants, I it really did seem like every third person was concerned about gluten while ordering food in a sandwich shop.
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FWIW, I'm OK with either variant, both GF and not. If you have the skill, you can make even tofu tasty. But hey, on the Internet, even a civil conversation can get out of hand just because literally EVERYBODY wants to leave their mark on the conversation. Kind of reminds me of my childhood times at extended family gatherings - after a 5-hour eating session at the table, everybody's about to leave, putting on coats - but the conversation is never over, so nobody really leaves. I once fell asleep on a pile of shoes waiting for the conversation to be over. :P
 
astyle said:
katzglutenfree.com

Personal Size Apple Pie

Katz Gluten Free is proud to present our delicious, mouthwatering, homemade, gluten-free apple pies! We fill our flaky crust with crisp apples and fragrant cinnamon, creating a pie that tastes like Mama used to make. No one will ever guess the pies are gluten and dairy free.
katzglutenfree.com katzglutenfree.com
How's this? It's amazing what you can find on the Internet these days :p
Click to expand...

I can only watch at it, can't order it :( And what if you don't like its taste?

drhowarddrfine said:
This gluten thing has gotten out of hand. Out of nowhere, it seems, every third person doesn't want gluten because....because...uh....er...

Yes, I understand there are people with real problems with gluten but, I owned several restaurants, and it really did seem like every third person was concerned about gluten while ordering food in a sandwich shop.
Click to expand...

I think it's actually a good thing. Bigger market, lower prices of gluten-free products :) And it's easy to miss you're intolerant, you feel a big difference only when you stop eat it.
 
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