Open Internet in decline according to Google court filing


I consider classic forums like this one a part of the open internet. It is indexable by search engines, visible to everybody without login. So much better than discord, slack and facebook groups.
Yes, but there is a growing trend of people just not using forums any more. And open internet in Europe is definitely coming to an end with the client side scanning requirement coming very soon.
 
I'm going to mix quite a few things here.

The article headline is misleading. What Google is really saying is that ad revenue FOR WEB SITES OTHER THAN FROM SEARCH AND FACEBOOK/AMAZON is not rising. And furthermore that the court forcing Google to divest its own ad business that puts ads on other people's web site (the former DoubleClick, now known as Google AdX) would make that effect even worse. And that's an argument that seems plausible. I have no way to measure ad revenue (having been a Google employee for several years did not help in that at all). The amount and quality of information that's posted to the web and accessible there is definitely shrinking. And that's across news, journalism, arts, technical stuff, government, and even computers. The web was invented (by Berners-Lee at CERN) to have a convenient way to access technical and administrative documentation; it is in that function that it is more and more failing.

I consider classic forums like this one a part of the open internet. It is indexable by search engines, visible to everybody without login. So much better than discord, slack and facebook groups.
Facebook is searchable. Discord is at least searchable within a "channel" or whatever they call their top-most topics. Don't know about Slack at all. Reddit is highly searchable, and as other forms of authoritative content are vanishing, it is the either the successor to, or the last bastion of technical and discursive interchange.

You're right that forums are on the decline. Honestly, I don't understand why, compared to the success of Reddit.

And open internet in Europe is definitely coming to an end with the client side scanning requirement coming very soon.
Free communication has always been a thorn in the side of authoritarian governments. Book burnings by the Nazis, or the Holy Inquisition punishing people like Galileo or Jan Hus are historic examples. Current places like China, North Korea or Iran demonstrate how in centrally organized societies, information can easily be suppressed. And if you talk to "young" Chinese for example (under 40), you will find how much the filtering of news (such as about Tiananmen Square) has formed their consciousness, and not in a good way: for lack of an alternative view, they have absorbed the party's narrative.

The same thing is happening in nominally "free" countries that supposedly have "respect for civil rights". As an example, in Germany three leading politicians (Habeck, Struck-Zimmermann and a third one I forgot) each have filed over 2000 court cases against people who called them mild insults such as "Schwachkopf" (weak head) on social media, and in nearly all the cases they win the case and the person has to pay a 5-digit amount (in Euro) as a penalty. This very much changes political discourse there, and I can notice how people in public walk on eggshells, while in private they are more angry than ever at politicians. If you wonder where the votes for extremist parties come from, this is one of the reasons.

And even here in the US, which thinks of itself as a beacon of free speech, things are far from good. As an example, a friend of mine ended up spending half a million $ in court cases, after he tried protesting on Sand Hill Road in Menlo Park (the place where many of Silicon Valley's venture capitalist companies are located), against his ex-father-in-law, who is well known to be a child rapist. This didn't stop Menlo Park police from arresting him and roughing him up and charging him with some strange crimes. He ended up winning the cases and getting some of the cost of lawsuits and lawyers back, but it was still a dangerous and very expensive exercise. He doesn't mind.

Even I have been warned by my lawyer to not post obviously true facts (court documents, with signatures by judges!) on my personal website that would make political candidates or neighbors in my area look bad (I'm a bit involved in local politics). Getting that advice from my lawyer cost me $3000; I stopped posting such things, because my lawyer convincingly explained that while I would win in court, and I have every right to free speech, winning the case would cost me probably $30,000, and that wasn't worth it. So if you want to know about the misdeeds of Elise Moss, Carl Loeber, or Steve and Gina (Mikyong) Gray, you'll have to ask me offline.

The web is going into the toilet, together with free speech.
 
Reddit is highly searchable, and as other forms of authoritative content are vanishing, it is the either the successor to, or the last bastion of technical and discursive interchange.

I remain highly satisfied with Usenet and IRC and will wait and see what happens, while the Web 2.0 old-timers are still fighting amongst themselves over which form of "IRC with pictures" will truly be the definitive one. In any case, Reddit has clearly lost popularity (and accounts) over the last couple of years, thanks to the unbearable behaviour of its money-grubbing CEO.

Anyway, much of this debate is pointless, as Google was talking about "Open Web" (which is, according to the internet, an advertising thing), not about "the open web" (which is the opposite of Google).

The web was invented (by Berners-Lee at CERN)

Tim Berners-Lee invented absolutely nothing. He merely took individual pieces of 1960s inventions like Project Xanadu and, for the first time, glued them together in a user-friendly way, albeit without even considering Xanadu's great advantage (bidirectional links!). But history is always written by the victors; we know how it goes.

And open internet in Europe is definitely coming to an end with the client side scanning requirement coming very soon.

Encryption is self-defense.
 
I think you don't understand how encryption works. Try scanning encrypted stuff on a client.
Like i said, you dont understand what the client side scanning is. So let me explain it to you.

This is the government supplied application that runs on your client. Be it phone, pc, tablet... whatever. And having this installed is going to be mandatory if you want to use internet, banking, gaming...whatever. It is going to be tied to your personal id. This is literally like having someone behind your back that stares at your screen constantly and recording everything you do. This system renders any type of encryption completely useless. No vpn, tor, drive encryption, or any other privacy tool can save you from this because, as the name implies, its client side scanning. And you cant get around because its mandatory. You dont want to use it is same like sayin im not getting my personal id card or passport. You go to jail. Its simple as that.
 
Like i said, you dont understand what the client side scanning is. So let me explain it to you.

This is the government supplied application that runs on your client. Be it phone, pc, tablet... whatever. And having this installed is going to be mandatory if you want to use internet, banking, gaming...whatever. It is going to be tied to your personal id. This is literally like having someone behind your back that stares at your screen constantly and recording everything you do. This system renders any type of encryption completely useless. No vpn, tor, drive encryption, or any other privacy tool can save you from this because, as the name implies, its client side scanning. And you cant get around because its mandatory. You dont want to use it is same like sayin im not getting my personal id card or passport. You go to jail. Its simple as that.
That doesn't sound very nice. I think I did read something about it in the news recently. It's an EU thing. But I was under the impression it was targetting IM apps like whatsapp.
 
it was targetting IM apps like whatsapp.

WhatsApp has never been a secure messenger anyway.


According to that link, there is no mandatory governmental software involved: "As per its first version, all messaging software providers would be required to perform indiscriminate scanning of private messages to look for CSAM – so-called 'client-side scanning'." Yeah, try to force them. Good luck.
 
Of course current geopolitical events may have some bearing on whether governments want to gain more control over communication amongst their populations. Free and open communication never used to be generally available in the past, unless you include radio hams and cb radio, but certainly nothing as accessible as the internet. If we are approaching a time of war they may seek to clamp down on the free flow of information. Of course I hope that doesn't happen. The war or the restriction.
 
So now mother apple is all knowing and all seeing...hmmm...and really, people who store data on the cloud are fools. although I understand there is little I can do about it where business holding personal data is concerned, which is why I choose to live a cash lifestyle and stay off grid as much as possible.

True security is not having to trust ANY 3rd party entity.
 
Like i said, you dont understand what the client side scanning is. So let me explain it to you.

This is the government supplied application that runs on your client. Be it phone, pc, tablet... whatever. And having this installed is going to be mandatory if you want to use internet, banking, gaming...whatever. It is going to be tied to your personal id. This is literally like having someone behind your back that stares at your screen constantly and recording everything you do. This system renders any type of encryption completely useless. No vpn, tor, drive encryption, or any other privacy tool can save you from this because, as the name implies, its client side scanning. And you cant get around because its mandatory. You dont want to use it is same like sayin im not getting my personal id card or passport. You go to jail. Its simple as that.
which is why using a cellphone for ANYTHING other than making social calls is extremely stupid! When folks got lazy and allowed cellphone carriers to provide a "you don get admin access to you device" model the writing was on the wall.
 
So now mother apple is all knowing and all seeing...hmmm...

It depends.

Apple has now proven several times that they do not give in to governments' surveillance demands. Nevertheless, most of the data is, of course, on my own servers; in iCloud, I only store completely insignificant things.
 
That doesn't sound very nice. I think I did read something about it in the news recently. It's an EU thing. But I was under the impression it was targetting IM apps like whatsapp.
Someone saw what is done in China, and now Russia, and started yelling for the same. Because, security agencies/police/... can't, and have never been able to, work without the tools and the right to look at everything you do. (Ok, that is over the top, but you know these people, remember the clipper chip?)
Only now they have found the "think of the children" button and pressing it like Bart Simpson on speed.
Apple has now proven several times that they do not give in to other governments' surveillance demands
Fixed that for you. I don't believe they turn away their own clowns. And seeing Tim Cook handling over gold bars does not make me think differently.
 
which is why using a cellphone for ANYTHING other than making social calls is extremely stupid! When folks got lazy and allowed cellphone carriers to provide a "you don get admin access to you device" model the writing was on the wall.
Exactly that. But thats the problem. You see it. I see it. Other people see it. And some people dont see it. The only thing worse than those who dont, are people who know its there, but pretend its not. I like your comparison with phones. But lets take a popular lunux distros of today. Long time ago there was no telemetry on any of them. Today, telemetry is there, but disabled by default. Tomorow is going to be enabled by default, and you need to disable it durring install. How long before its enabled by default with no ability to disable it? If the setting is buried somewhere deep, or it requires installation of additional packages, or god forbid you need to start terminal and change some .conf files, majority of people are just not going to bother. Im not even going to go into details on what data gets collected and sent. Just take a look at Windows 11. Spyware and telemetry is new normal. It "helps developers make your experience better".But telemetry was not enough. Lets slap ai agent in your os and call this "amazing new feature" that will capture everything on your screen and store it in plain text.

Directon in which the internet is going today is pretty clear. Its just sad how some people are responding with "do you have the source for those claims?". They expect me to send them a link that will confirm something that its clear as day. If i dont provide "the source", my argument is invalid and no one should ever listen or read what i say here. These people think they are "privacy experts" because they switched to iphone and they are running OS that they built, they use VPN, they encrypt their disks and they have advanced security practices. Good luck with that sir. I envy your innocence.
 
It depends.

Apple has now proven several times that they do not give in to governments' surveillance demands. Nevertheless, most of the data is, of course, on my own servers; in iCloud, I only store completely insignificant things.
Proven? How do you know what actually happened? All you know is what you've been told.
Do I trust any corporation? No.

I guess all I can say is you might have more chance with a phone from a US company like apple or google than with a chinese phone. Who knows what data the chinese phone is sending back home. I don't want the united front work department profiling me... I don't have anything like tiktok on my phone either. It would be naive to think that the NSA is the only intelligence outfit that wants to collect the data.

It's currently fashionable to think, rightly or wrongly, that western govenrments are pure evil. Well, those other guys around the world are definitely not your friends either, not even slightly; regardless of what you might imagine.
 
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