Why do you use FreeBSD on desktop?

I should also add that installing FreeBSD is really simple unlike Arch/Gentoo. Usually It's not possible to install these distros without wiki.
on Discord, ppl challenge each other for 'speedruns', who can install FreeBSD faster! and I think those 'speedruns' are actually kept track of on FreeBSD's wiki somewhere.

Heh, I do get that. But to give him credit, it seems to be running longer than the recent project for a desktop BSD started by Jordan Hubbard (and Kip Macy). Hubbard had all the big-wig Apple, iX Systems fame but in the end it didn't have the required 12-year old's youthful exuberance.
Yeah, those two guys were the original FreeBSD devs, after all :p Even if the project was ultimately abandoned after a few years, I imagine that FreeBSD found a way to benefit from that, it was not a complete waste.
 
The installer script steps is graphica (before installing the base system) and therefore, before the base system is installed there should be two options to choose from, one for the continuation of the base system installation, and the other option for the continuation of the default desktop environment, as well as in debian.

End users have their own tastes when it comes to using the systems, and therefore, not be told to look for other systems, just because of the whim of users who have their own interests in the servers.
 
The installer script steps is graphica (before installing the base system) and therefore, before the base system is installed there should be two options to choose from, one for the continuation of the base system installation, and the other option for the continuation of the default desktop environment, as well as in debian.

End users have their own tastes when it comes to using the systems, and therefore, not be told to look for other systems, just because of the whim of users who have their own interests in the servers.
We only tell ppl to go look for other systems when the offenders bash FreeBSD too much. You realize this is FreeBSD Forums, a place for fans of the OS to gather and help each other out?

If you want help with FreeBSD, just ask the questions. Nobody wants to read your shitposting of hot takes on how Forums users talk. That's shop talk, learn to live with it. And, it's very apparent you didn't read the Forum rules... Thread freebsd-forums-rules.38922

The installer is written in devel/ncurses, which is why it's actually command-line through and through. Yeah, there are plans to create a graphical installer, but I'm not gonna go looking for it. Find it yourself if you're so interested.
 
and the other option for the continuation of the default desktop environment
Why a default desktop when there are so manu DE's and WM's to choose from? That will just give you the big, bloated, fat and ugly thing that brings so many Windows and Linux users here.
However, I do agree with the idea of an option: It should simply give this message: "Now read the f*cking Handbook, pick your DE/WM and install it. Good luck!".

The resulting bit of knowledge is what makes this forum so much better than, say, Reddit.
 
I first used FreeBSD while I was still working at the University of Idaho. I started there in 1981. I was eventually asked to set up an e-mail and web server. I set up an old PC with 4 HDs in it. I tried Linux ver 0.99 and was impressed by it...then I wasn't.

Discovered FreeBSD which installed itself via the web in a very short time. I was amazed, both at how easy it was to install and at how well, and reliably, it worked. I think the version of FreeBSD I was using then was ver 5. or something close to that. My department used that server for several years until Computer Services started offering that service.

Then was tasked with setting up an HP-UX server, which I did. I like HP-UX and HP's machines, but they are much too expensive for home users.

I was also tasked with helping staff and faculty to set up and support WinDOZE boxes for them. :-(

I still much preferred Unix of some sort.

I set up the first small-computer network on the U. of I., campus for a professor's class. Computer services at that time supported a main-frame computer and users. I was friends with one of the main support people there. At one time, I was having a bit of trouble with my network, and called him up to see if he could help me figure out what was wrong. His reply was, "Gee, Ken, I don't know. Yours is the only one on campus that works." I said, "Oh!" "OK, thanks" and eventually figured it out myself.

After I retired in 2003, I eventually built and support 6 different computers and software for my immediate family, I decided that I wanted to completely eliminate any WinDOZE operating systems from all of our home computers. Windows is too darned intrusive, the sneaky bastards. I never liked Apple, mainly for their corporate greed and their desire to run everything. Got fed up with Linux very early on due to their "messy-ness" there being something like 80 million distros all different from one another.

FreeBSD is clean, reliable and just plain fun to set up and use. I can, eventually, do anything I need to with FreeBSD. The fact that it is free doesn't really mean much to me, although that is nice. And the support for FreeBSD is, literally, phenomenal.

This forum is one of the best I have ever been connected with. Documentation (the Handbook) needs to be upgraded, though.

I'll be 81 years old this month, so I am very slow, but I eventually get it done.

Ken Gordon
 
If you want help with FreeBSD, just ask the questions. Nobody wants to read your shitposting of hot takes on how Forums users talk. That's shop talk, learn to live with it. And, it's very apparent you didn't read the Forum rules... Thread freebsd-forums-rules.38922
The what is there to read, I have always respected the rules and have not said shitty comments as you do in your comment, which drifts to toxicity and insult off the main topic. And if I respected the rules without attacking anyone, the fact of suggesting that FreeBSD should be extended by default for graphical desktop is not a comment of shitty, sorry for the other forums that read, but I did not attack anyone, it is just an old aspiration of the end user to FreeBSD for default for desktop environment
 
It's really strange to see a thread on why people use FreeBSD turn into people complaining that FreeBSD isn't *nix or win/Mac. Just absolutely confusing.
Unfortunately most of these "what is your opinion on..." threads tend to drift that way. We have a couple of dedicated malcontents that see all such as an opportunity to air their grievances. I recommend the forum ignore feature.
 
There's too many different DE's, they have their fans, it's easier to offer a DIY starting point than to decide on one specific default DE. Kind of like selling land rather than throw in a prefab house with every single plot.
Very well put.
*writing this on a Win10 laptop, so I am kind of traitor.
 
Documentation (the Handbook) needs to be upgraded, though.
In general, I think the documentation is among the best in existence, at least when looking at opensource projects. To me, this is yet another very relevant advantage compared to e.g. Linux.

But then, it always happens that parts of the handbook are indeed outdated, maybe even wrong. Do you have specific passages in mind?

Lacking a better process, I'd ask everyone to at least report outdated passages of the handbook, there's also a doc category on bugzilla 😉.

If you feel adventurous, or if you already have some experience with git and asciidoc and some time to spend for FreeBSD, it's always nice to directly attach a suggested fix of course. There's textproc/docproj conventiently depending on anything needed for the build process of FreeBSD docs. Not so nice is the current build system, you have to build everything for every little change to test it :rolleyes: but well, can live with that when working on docs just occassionally ....
 
it always happens that parts of the handbook are indeed outdated, maybe even wrong.
Our FreeBSD Handbook welcomes readers with this:

Abstract
Welcome to FreeBSD! This handbook covers the installation and day to day use of FreeBSD 13.2-RELEASE and FreeBSD 12.4-RELEASE. This book is the result of ongoing work by many individuals. Some sections might be outdated. Those interested in helping to update and expand this document should send email to the FreeBSD documentation project mailing list.
 
What's the point of having up-to-da.te information if the ideology of the few who use FreeBSD only interested in freebsd for server. Since I started testing this system for the first time years ago, there have only been toxic discussion of using it for desktop environment, there ...who don't want it to be extended by default for desktop environment, and things full of opposition.
So to be clear, the "few" who use FreeBSD as a server should stop doing so, as they are somehow blocking those who want to use FreeBSD as a desktop?

So why do those fanatics of commands,refuse to allow FreeBSD to be extended by default for the desktop environment? As has been discussed in other threads, the base graphical installer for FreeBSD should have two options, one for the base system installation, and the other by continuation of the desktop environment by default. But no.... make of starting a toxic discussion with countless negative elements, shutting down the possibility of FreeBSD being extended by default for the graphical desktop environment.
No users, whether desktop or server users, have much, if any, influence over development. Your options are very simple:

1) Address your concerns to the developers / port maintainers
2) Get involved and do the work yourself
3) Pay someone to do it

If (1) doesn't yield the result you want, (2) is not your area of expertise and (3) is out of the question, then you should consider using a different OS.

...because there are end users who would like FreeBSD to be extended by default for desktop environment, the end users are the majority in the world. In all these 30 years of freebsd's existence, some topics have been closed for falling into toxic, useless and sterile discussions.
The "end users", though a multitude, are not the developers, nor in most cases those providing funding or code contributions. Therefore they have very little say.

...there should be two options to choose from, one for the continuation of the base system installation, and the other option for the continuation of the default desktop environment, as well as in debian.
You might prefer Debian. You are comparing an "everything is a package" Linux distribution to FreeBSD which is a base system plus ports/packages, which are not part of the FreeBSD base OS. You may as well go to the Debian forums and tell them they've got it all wrong and that everything should go in a directory called "Program Files". Debian has a "default" desktop: gnome (by the Red Hat backed gnome project - which is quite arguably one of the main reasons why systemd was shoehorned in). The lack of a default desktop is actually a good thing, as it prevents an OS just becoming a narrow focused "vehicle" for said desktop and leaves the options open to the user, instead of foisting some freedesktop.org crap on them as standard. It also means that FreeBSD is not taking any particular position of endorsing a certain desktop / annoying users who don't want that desktop.
End users have their own tastes when it comes to using the systems, and therefore, not be told to look for other systems, just because of the whim of users who have their own interests in the servers.
"End users" have their own tastes and FreeBSD has many possibilities. If those possibilities aren't enough, or the skillset of the user is a mismatch to what is expected, the user is better off looking elsewhere.

To develop "easy" and "automagic" functionality (and in the process add far more complexity, losing good things like plain text configuration and adding non human readable binary config) which you see in Debian (a lot of which actually came from Ubuntu and others) actually takes some hefty corporate funding. There is no tangible benefit to developers in devoting volunteer man hours into projects aimed at making everything GUI driven and "easy" unless they're getting paid to do so. i.e. there is no sense in a FOSS developer automating, almost every aspect of an installation to serve the needs of users who won't put in the effort and believe they're entitled to an easy ride. Only proprietary vendors such as Microsoft and Apple will do that, for products, which they sell for profit.

At the moment you appear to be suggesting that server and command line users, block FreeBSD from being developed in other ways - to fill alternative roles and use cases - and you appear to believe that once these people are silenced, developers will emerge from the ether and start doing this work, to serve whims of some entitled "end users", who contribute nothing, all entirely for free.

That's not how it works.
 
And when I mention toxic discussions, it is because some fanatics don't want FreeBSD to be extended by default for desktop graphical environment, start saying a lot of negative things, and on top of that some start going off topic, and start insulting by saying troll or trolling, just because there are end users who would like FreeBSD to be extended by default for desktop environment, the end users are the majority in the world. In all these 30 years of freebsd's existence, some topics have been closed for falling into toxic, useless and sterile discussions.
Your excessive use of the word "toxic" may result in closing this thread soon by SirDice and we are tired of popping up discussions serving the purpose of:

Before this happens be advised that your use of the term "end user" does not apply to FreeBSD as this is a non-commercial project which knows no EULA (End User License Agreement). If you want to be end user, please buy and consume a product of your taste.
 
Your excessive use of the word "toxic" may result in closing this thread soon by SirDice and we are tired of popping up discussions serving the purpose of:

Before this happens be advised that your use of the term "end user" does not apply to FreeBSD as this is a non-commercial project which knows no EULA (End User License Agreement). If you want to be end user, please buy and consume a product of your taste.
What you have to read, free software is for everyone. open source is for everyone, free, free, and available. No to the serrated code
 
What you have to read, free software is for everyone. open source is for everyone, free, free, and available. No to the serrated code
Indeed, that's why you are free to submit changes to the code, or to fork it and release your own BSD variant, like people with diverging goals have done in the past (notably, DragonFly was forked from FreeBSD). Or to build your own custom FreeBSD spin with a ready to use desktop and release it, or to join people that are already working on similar projects. Ever tried GhostBSD, NomadBSD, helloSystem? They could be the thing you are looking for.
 
What you have to read, free software is for everyone. open source is for everyone, free, free, and available. No to the serrated code
Free software is for everyone who actually wants it.

Bashing everyone as 'toxic' for having conversations you personally can't stomach - that's just not nice. Every field of expertise has so-called 'shop talk'. There's a reason why sanitation professionals don't talk shop when they visit a bakery or a restaurant.

Also, what happened to just getting off Forums, off the computer, and going for a walk outside? Sometimes, ppl need time to cool off and process what was said/written.
 
Not all open source is free to modify or redistribute. But it's important to find the right project for your computing goals regardless of the license. It's not always easy to find a good fit. Sometimes you have to do a lot of looking around to find it.
 
If you don't like Debian try Linux Mint. I use it most of the time, it's my preferred operating system for desktop usage, whereas FreeBSD is the OS I prefer to use as a server.
 
The Debian tasksel doesn't install a Firewall GUI when you select a desktop. It also doesn't install patches for the processor microcode. Desktop-oriented distros do.
As mentioned, the desktop is not part of the FreeBSD core, but you can use sysutils/desktop-installer as a helper. Freebsd.org offers an operating system for use on the desktop, not aimed at desktops. It could certainly offer during installation, but again, it's not part of the core and would go into the same situation as the Debian Firewall... how far does the roots of a desktop go?

It's a DIY system, not a desktop-oriented.
I think this is not a thread for wishes. I would like to see more chitty bang-bang, organic situation of why you chose FreeBSD Desktop, not simple ideology.
 
You guys who use FreeBSD as a daily driver on desktops.
Just curious, why you've picked FreeBSD instead of Linux, Mac...? IMHO, it would be great to have this kind of information up to date in 2023.
For me, it's a long story. It all started over 20 years ago when I realized it was a good idea to have the same system on my desktop that I had on servers. I then installed X and it all began. I have never regretted my choice.

FreeBSD has continuously improved over time, and I have not seen any reason to switch. It is a great choice for a desktop computer, and it is highly reliable and stable. What I like most about it is that it keeps working if you don't break it yourself. One of the main benefits is the philosophy that you have all the source code and build it (and ports) from source. If there are any problems, they are on your desktop, and there is no one else to blame but yourself. This is both sobering and empowering...

... and yes -- ZFS.
 
On most hardware (laptops) it doesn't work properly
The only line for 10-year-old hardware that I found in Profighost 's post:
My wife has one of those M1 MacBooks.
She still uses her former 10y old MacBook, too, because the new one refuses the external DVD-drive.
Her job depends on using DVDs and CDs, but with Apple there is only a cloud, and Apple's cloud, only.
No access to our NFS anymore, SAMBA only, and very slow, (please don't link me How-Tos! I slaved weekends over this! Yes, the tools are still there. It's not working, anymore. Don't ask me, ask Apple!)
No access to media anymore, even the one you bought elsewhere, when you fall from Apple's favour.
To me this absolutely no-go.
I'm trying to convince her, that her next machine will be no Apple no more.
Either some FreeBSD or ubuntu, depends on how much I want to be her admin (and she let me.) :cool:

That's a case of talking past each other, people! 😏
 
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