What Do You Love Most About FreeBSD? :)

Hey, semi-new user here (I tried it before many times, but didn't manage to have proper compatibility with my hardware up to 11.1. The port system and the forceful shoveling of systemd made me look at alternatives under Linux, but I never stopped trying different variants of BSD. I managed to suceed at last with my backup thinkpad T60.

The man pages are amazing! If I don't get the WiFi working a simple "man ath0" will prompt a man page with everything I need, even if I don't know where the init scripts are located yet. Just by typing "man" and the device name! how crazy is that!? I don't need a Internet connection to set up my computer!.

I still hate that bsd-games doesn't include monop (monopoly). I went into great lenghts to compile it under different Linux distros. It now only installs by default under OpenBSD and that will stop supporting SMP, so it is a big no-no. I am not familiar with llvm, so I couldn't compile it yet, but I will prevail... I hope.

the COC fiasco did made me weary tho. I am glad that it didn't transcend into a professional level as I see here.
 
Another reason for FreeBSD: yesterday I checked an install archive, unpacked it and later deleted it again. Absent minded, tired and low on coffee I typed ""rm -r bin lib". Only it was /bin, and that was a root shell. No biggie, just /rescue/tar extract the userland from the install archive. No, this was debian, and I was happy to get /home out of the way before reinstall.
 
giahung1997 said:
Is FreeBSD pkg really that sucks? http://www.ivoras.net/blog/tree/2015/Feb-why-freebsds-pkg-sucks.html
Click to expand...

Not sure what his problem actually is. I would say that the ports/pkg thing is not the best and most reliable part of FreeBSD (but then, I failed to really devise any better logic), and I am usually rebuilding all ports when upgrading the system, and for the special things (like development environments and such) I tend to know what I want and check that the right things get installed, and I didn't perceive such problems in more recent time. One cannot expect a ports management tool to handle each and every application (of ~30'000!) in a perfect way (given that this all happens on voluntary basis).
E.g. for ruby, which I am using extensively, and which also comes along with hundreds of add-ons (so called gems), I do a clear cut: ruby itself gets installed via the ports system, but the gems are maintained by the ruby-tools and NOT by pkg/ports (and they get NOT installed in /usr/local). If php does not come along with it's own proper maintenance tool for it's dungeon of piece-meal, well then I would say php sucks.

drhowarddrfine also with flavors, somebody has to sit down and edit all the twohundredwhatever makefiles, and that guy doesn't sound like he would enjoy to approach the task.
 
lebarondemerde said:
Thats all BS on that article!
Click to expand...

lebarondemerde, I've been waiting for giahung1997 to post a screenshot of his FreeBSD desktop since March and he has yet to do so to the screenshot thread. He seems more interested in efforts to detract from FreeBSD or make disparaging statements regarding it or its use than show signs of ever having used it at all.

A screenshot showing it was actually his FreeBSD desktop would shoot me down in flames without a parachute, and I will salute till I hit ground.
 
Vladimir1922 said:
Hey, semi-new user here (I tried it before many times, but didn't manage to have proper compatibility with my hardware up to 11.1. The port system and the forceful shoveling of systemd made me look at alternatives under Linux, but I never stopped trying different variants of BSD. I managed to suceed at last with my backup thinkpad T60.

The man pages are amazing! If I don't get the WiFi working a simple "man ath0" will prompt a man page with everything I need, even if I don't know where the init scripts are located yet. Just by typing "man" and the device name! how crazy is that!? I don't need a Internet connection to set up my computer!.

I still hate that bsd-games doesn't include monop (monopoly). I went into great lenghts to compile it under different Linux distros. It now only installs by default under OpenBSD and that will stop supporting SMP, so it is a big no-no. I am not familiar with llvm, so I couldn't compile it yet, but I will prevail... I hope.

the COC fiasco did made me weary tho. I am glad that it didn't transcend into a professional level as I see here.
Click to expand...
Yes, the man pages saved me when I set up FreeBSD on my Dell with Intel Wireless and an Nvidia Card (and the kind people on these Forums helped me out with Xorg and FreeBSD! :D) But, I eventually got, uh, shnookered and tripped and cracked my Dell's screen... :( Just Caffeine now for me. :D
 
Trihexagonal said:
lebarondemerde, I've been waiting for giahung1997 to post a screenshot of his FreeBSD desktop since March and he has yet to do so to the screenshot thread. He seems more interested in efforts to detract from FreeBSD or make disparaging statements regarding it or its use than show signs of ever having used it at all.

A screenshot showing it was actually his FreeBSD desktop would shoot me down in flames without a parachute, and I will salute till I hit ground.
Click to expand...

The screenshot machine may be lacking film.
 
RedPhoenix said:
Oh, dear GOD man. XD I'm not good at ASCII Art, and quite frankly, Beastie looks excited for a literal flaming of Linux. XD
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I did that with games/cowsay. It comes with some default ASCII art in /usr/local/share/cows and Beastie forking Tux is among them. I just added the flames at the bottom to make it look like a penguin on a pitchfork picnic. I did post it at LQ though.

I don't think I'm well liked there anymore. For various reasons, that being the least of them. Nothing a little penguin pâté on my palate won't put into perspective or purge from my perception.
 
o because it's not Windows
o because it's not Linux
o because it's FreeBSD?
I guess for me, it's probably because the entire layout makes the most sense for me (System V?). I hate the "traditional" Linux fs layout. Tho systemd has pretty well dispensed with that.
I'm also pretty keen on the ability to easily analyse problems -- both hardware, and install/running (FreeBSD) systems. The ports(7) framework, tho it has it's warts, is still better than anything the other operating systems have to offer.
I suppose to best summarize; I'd have to say it's ease of use in any given situation. Something I can't attribute to the other operating systems available -- free, or not.

This comes from someone riding (a form of) BSD, since the DEC tapes. :)

--Chris
 
* %100 built from source system, guarantee against "hidden bin inserts" (though, due to size and complexity, possibly false list of contributors, this "doesn't keep them honest" like it used to)

* light fast C compiler - %101 K&R compatible (unfortunately, freeBSD moved to gcc then clang to ... make porting easier??) and pmake .mk

* Unix compatibility (ie, adherence to sysctl). whereas on linux they are adhering to standards that novell/anthem have modified that aren't backward compatible. they are doing forced upgrades over there (at least ubuntu is)

I like interface compatibility (ie, sysctl(1)). I hate people who change interfaces. Get your own interface don't heist someone or older software's. Interfaces should always have a version switch: so use that to add features or rename your feature as something else.

I know there's a strong push by some to make C 1/2 way like objective C and kill all old software, to follow germany's led evern mutating Unix standards that force upgrades and put a few in control. i don't like any of that. (if i want objective C i'll use that. if i use C, i expect it to be 'C'). i don't want my C to be C89, C98 C2013. i want it to be K&R C and any bull should be in #pragma where it should be. they are just continually trying to obstruct software from building: in my opinion, leaving them holding the keys to successs is their goal

probably allot of what i liked about freeBSD 4.3 has changed. but freeBSD tends to stick to tradition - to get new things done without "breaking everything else", and i like that

The and the Handbook is great and installs are, as far as the few i've done, are far more stable than (ie, debian) installs.

(i've tried early slackware which was linux run on a ported bsd base and loved that but had depends issues compiling software, tried redhat for rpm but also had dependency issues, switched to debian hoping there was hope in apt system only to find admins were likely crafting it to create forced upgrade situations rather than maintain compatibility and dependency: they were copying left software forcing users to change those brands they kontrolled, ie, to gcc hacks (many were made by debian admins) which found their way into making headaches for freebsd and in the end: gcc wasn't kept in freebsd - freebsd now uses clang)

LIKE ANY USER i love it when both old and new software works and without headaches. features should be added: not be a series of broken hacks until it sticks. i love it if i can run software and develope that way or decide to add features if i feel the need. i don't want to be forced to continually deal with breakage or obstruction. i feel that freeBSD is not an always broken system and hope they continue to admin the more classic freeBSD way (ie, keep tcsh because it's traditional and changing it would break tons of stuff).
 
Chris_H said:
o because it's not Windows
o because it's not Linux
o because it's FreeBSD?
--Chris
Click to expand...

i mentioned linux, it's the Distros that are "tenuous" morso than the kernel (which is modular - don't like a hack? de-select it don't use it)

WIndows: probably spies on me. But that's ok because I spy on them! (not really, i use it for gaming or maybe for free autocad or stuff that's (free) that's for win10 only)

> o because it's not Apple bsd ???

you seem to have skipped something ;) is bsd under apple, and making apple bsd better in tune with freeBSD a bad thing? apple bsd has some kernel compatibility enhancements, bsd userland (older though) and likely can be made further compatible (incl the build system), and can compile gpl software. it could be the only difference would be: hw drivers which bsd is always late on (and really - that's going to get worse not better, read today's low lever chips even small chips have enough features to give a pro a headache to just see the list let alone code and leverage)

it's a great question if user's should give up on "free" hw dev (often buggy) or demand these industries stop releasing poor hardware (ie, IGD video cards that X11 doesn't see as VESA (no new standard that isn't complicated as hades - due to usb led and all), motherboards sold without real BIOS and can't do things efficiently without "key drivers" that are withheld (hardware that performs POORLY or NOT ATALL without specially keyed drivers. what in the old days we used to call "CHEAP")
 
In spite of the known fallacy of security by obscurity, such a thing as that can be moderately useful. Linux is the target of all sorts of entities with vested interests that don't match the community's interest at all. It's because Linux is not obscure. So, while security may not be obtainable with obscurity, the lack of obscurity certainly impacts (heavily) security. In spite of the common "wisdom" - I look to obscure operating systems. FreeBSD is the least obscure of several OS's that I regularly use ...

That's a good reason to like it ...
 
debguy said:
* %100 built from source system, guarantee against "hidden bin inserts" (though, due to size and complexity, possibly false list of contributors, this "doesn't keep them honest" like it used to)

* light fast C compiler - %101 K&R compatible (unfortunately, freeBSD moved to gcc then clang to ... make porting easier??) and pmake .mk
Click to expand...
+1
BSDs should have never abandoned PCC (Stephen Johnson's Portable C Compiler) as a system only C serial compiler in favor of GCC. What people do with ports is different thing.
 
debguy said:
> o because it's not Apple bsd ???

you seem to have skipped something ;) is bsd under apple, and making apple bsd better in tune with freeBSD a bad thing
Click to expand...
No. I didn't leave it out. In fact it's my only other "go to" OS.
While I have many "nits" with it. There are many things I like about it. Not the least of which; is my ability to work with/on (Free)BSD on it.
They also one-upped FreeBSD, in that they have been UNIX certified since OSX 10.5 (Leopard). Something I wish FreeBSD could have found the time to manage getting. While many insist that FreeBSD is a "UNIX like" OS. I would argue that UNIX is a "BSD like" OS; given it's heritage.

--Chris
 
I moved all my servers from Linux (Debian and Ubuntu LTS) to FreeBSD a year ago and I couldn't be happier! I really love how easy FreeBSD is to use and just how great the Handbook is. I love that everything I install (and all my configuration files) are put into one place. I love how fast my websites perform on FreeBSD and how easy upgrades are so I don't have to worry about stuff breaking. I enjoy using IPFW and PF and there's just so many ports/pkgs available to install...the list of reasons can go on and on and on!

I'm always learning something new with FreeBSD and it's just a joy to use and manage my servers.
 
For me, I started out being concerned with Canonical possibly becoming a publicly traded company. To me, that makes software smell of $$$ and not quality. So I initially liked FreeBSD for these reasons:
  • ZFS
  • Jails
  • Stability
  • Compiling OS from source & easy to add/subtract kernel config options for buildkernel time was pretty neat
In that time I came to like these additional things:
  • Separation of the base system and packages (used to like it all being combined in Linux, but not so much anymore when having to update certain packages), same goes in the filesystem layout
  • Service don't autostart after installing (had some fun with Linux trying to overwrite data and configs on database upgrades, even with the service stopped!)..they start when you tell it to
  • pkg audit
  • beadm
  • Really getting to know my system and what I run, not having an OS enable ALL THE OPTIONS in some software (like apache24)
  • No systemd - I like to control my /etc/resolv.conf thank you very much, stop ignoring my local network's DNS server
  • Stable base with rolling-esque packages on top. That was an itch I couldn't fix on any Linux distro. It was either bleeding edge to the max, or forever stale packages
What I have come to not like:
  • Still have some issues with KDE5, but so happy with it (whoever is doing most of the work, can I buy you a beer? Or if you don't like beer, well...doesn't have to be a beer)
  • I had to custom compile ffmpeg to have audio work with Firefox(?)...not sure what that's all about
  • All keyboard keys don't map properly out of the box. Maybe I'm not SMRT enough for this, but I can't find info I need to understand solving this issue
  • Still not PHP 7.x by default
  • Still just can't get around to trusting FreeBSD on my XPS 13 9350, it will remain being Fedora Linux...oddly every other Linux distro sucks on this laptop for me
Honestly though, I can't complain much. I've only begun using FreeBSD as a desktop OS, and overall it has been really good for me. I'm missing some pieces of software that I came to enjoy in Linux, but really, I'm okay with not having them (Spotify, DRM support in Friefox)
 
drhowarddrfine said:
Not sure what you mean. I have no such issues.

PHP of any kind is not installed by default. This is an issue you have with your applications, not FreeBSD.
Click to expand...

With FreeBSD 11.1 I would frequently have no audio in Firefox, until I custom compiled ffmpeg, then the problem never came back. Did a fresh install of 11.2, have the same issue.

For PHP, I should be more clear: not that it is installed by default, but that the default version is 5.6, and that premade binaries are all made for 5.6, so you have to edit the make.conf file and set it to 7.x, and then you have to fetch files from ports and compile some for 7.x, and set pkg locks to prevent it from installing php56 and the php56 version of whatever you had to compile
 
Hmmm, let me see, and many of these comments I have posted before:
  • FreeBSD is heavy duty service capable OS. That is why we see it appearing in big iron products/systems. Examples include Juniper, NetFlix, Sony PS3/4, and Nintendo Switch, as well as a slew of enterprise grade appliances. (If I had the money I would build the worlds largest supercomputer using FreeBSD and lease out compute time to the crazy intensive work loads out there; weather being one of the first that comes to mind. I'm sure the machine would shine!)
  • I really like this forum, and the very vast majority of the people here. The support is awesome; I only wish I had more time to spend on FreeBSD and return the help I have received.
  • That the base OS is minimalist, and that all the other stuff I have to choose to add on. Its the opposite of many other OSs where it comes loaded with all sorts of "we make it easy for you the dummy" code that seems to be slapped together, resulting in a machine that simply frequently: (a) requires a lot of maintence, (b) is disappointing and frustrating.
  • It still subscribes to the old UNIX philosophies. Some might disagree with that, but please keep in mind we have had incrediable changes in technology since the 1960s. From my viewpoint of the world FreeBSD and other UNIX 'true like' OSs have a good future ahead of them.
  • It just works; as simple as you want it, or as complex as you want it!
 
RedPhoenix said:
For me, It's because it's not Linux. It does things differently. :) I LOVE Linux, don't get me wrong. But FreeBSD does things Linux can't. And vice-versa. :) It's like a breath of fresh air (even MORE so when coming from Windows.) I also like FreeBSD because all I had to do to get it to work with my flat screen TV with the AMD HDMI Port was edit a simple Text File... :) Also, I get so much more into FreeBSD when I have a lot of Caffeine. :) What drew you guys to FreeBSD?
Click to expand...
Well, one thing I really don't like is the way it seems to be becoming more like Linux every day. Another is the mayfly-length life of each new release, and the purge of older versions. Maintainers these days seem to be infected by the gamer mindset: gotta have new latest-and-greatest bits every few months, even if the changes are insignificant for most real-world applications.
 
MMacD said:
......Another is the mayfly-length life of each new release, and the purge of older versions. Maintainers these days seem to be infected by the gamer mindset: gotta have new latest-and-greatest bits every few months, even if the changes are insignificant for most real-world applications.
Click to expand...

I agree. Perhaps we can ignore the gaming world, but the rest of the world sorely needs to get back to a software development, and management system where users can select a train of code that provides long time debugging support.

I am a big fan of a red yellow green three train model:
  • Red - code base contains newly developed code (features/functionality), and ongoing releases contain more new coding and minimal debugging has been done.
  • Yellow - code development has been locked down, debugging begins, thus amount of debugging so far is less than green code, say 3 months.
  • Green - code has been been debugged for set amount of time (say 1 year), and will continue to be debugged until end of life (say a total of 3 years).

This would allow users to test and explore new features in a lab using red code, yet allow same users to deploy rock solid mature (green) code in the production environment. And the yellow code would be used in those situations where a compromise is required.

So back to FreeBSD I would love to have this as my OS migration path: 10.3.12 > 10.4.12 > 10.5.12 > 11.1.12 > 11.2.12 > 11.3.12> 11.4.12> 13.1.12 >etc, etc. I will need to become a billionaire I guess so I can support FreeBSD with the money required to make this sort of code development support a reality.


Sorry I've gone off the rails again. ;)
 
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