reddit vs discord

[drhowarddrfine]

grahamperrin This is a reddit problem, not a FreeBSD problem.

 

[Cath O'Deray]

This is a reddit problem

Do you mean, the Reddit-provided solution with which page 5 began?

 

[astyle]

In Seattle are a few old Xeon servers for rent. Each of them comes with four IPv4 addresses.

Don't confuse Ethernet cards with actual IP addresses. That's not how you 'get' an IP address, anyway.

Is reddit not capable of running IPv6?

It very much is capable of running IPv6 - just ask Netcraft.com.

The point is to have the sessions run uninterrupted, with dynamic firewall rules.

Firewall rules are not that dynamic... if you update a rule, you have to restart the entire firewall, which is not exactly practical.

Rather the other way round. Reddit needs stupid users to buy the crap they offer. Stupid users run on dynamic IP or CGN as assigned from their local providers. Static IP are used by professionals who know what they're doing - these are not imbeciles, therefore of no use for reddit.
If they ban AWS (and people swallow that) - well, AWS is too expensive for my taste.

Reddit is free to use, last I checked. And the vast majority of private users of Internet get their IP address assigned by the ISP's DHCP (what do you think the D stands for?) and get to Reddit no problem.

And reddit having a problem with AWS - please re-read patmaddox post more carefully - he did explain why. Yeah, AWS does need to tighten their own terms of service to avoid IP bans from other places.

Yeah, but if you ban people from your dancefloor based on generalizations (like race or colour), you may get some problem.

I have my IPs for quite a while already, and they do not do suspicious behavior - but well, if people accept such, I don't care. The fault is mine, I shouldn't have been too lazy to learn Russian, otherwise I could now use VK which is more fun anyway.

Uhhh... VK is the Russian counterpart to LinkedIn... with primary audience being within Russia's borders.

And - Even if your own static IPs are not necessarily the source of suspicious behavior, it's not out of question for them to be part of a suspicious block of IP addresses. Reddit most likely bans by IP block, rather than individual IPs.

In your own screenshot, if you think you've been blocked incorrectly, the page provides a link to file a ticket and plead your case.

 

[astyle]

grahamperrin This is a reddit problem, not a FreeBSD problem.

yeah, and this is in the off-topic area. Admittedly, we did go off on a tangent about just plain connecting to Reddit and Discord from IP addresses that should originate in the EU.

 

[PMc]

Don't confuse Ethernet cards with actual IP addresses. That's not how you 'get' an IP address, anyway.

I have no idea what ethernet cards they have. They have 4 IPv4 addresses included, additional ones can be rented for a monthly fee.
And that is exactly how we get IP addresses.

Firewall rules are not that dynamic... if you update a rule, you have to restart the entire firewall, which is not exactly practical.

This is wrong. My ipfw configurations are fully capable of inflight reloading, without dropping dynamic sessions. Here is the code:

ipfwconf - tools - assorted systems management scripts

gitr.daemon.contact

Furthermore, when a dynamic IP (v4 or v6) changes, we do not need to change any rules. We do recompute NAT per tables, and also NPTv6 checksum correction.

And reddit having a problem with AWS - please re-read patmaddox post more carefully - he did explain why. Yeah, AWS does need to tighten their own terms of service to avoid IP bans from other places.

I don't care, I don't use AWS. I use a couple of other providers, and apparently these are all banned.

Uhhh... VK is the Russian counterpart to LinkedIn... with primary audience being within Russia's borders.

Yeah, which means there is a lot more skill underway.

And - Even if your own static IPs are not necessarily the source of suspicious behavior, it's not out of question for them to be part of a suspicious block of IP addresses. Reddit most likely bans by IP block, rather than individual IPs.

Probably they ban just everything that is not used by telcos for local end-users.

In your own screenshot, if you think you've been blocked incorrectly, the page provides a link to file a ticket and plead your case.

Yeah, then they want to know how many (hundreds or thousands of) users are concerned.

 

[astyle]

I have no idea what ethernet cards they have. They have 4 IPv4 addresses included, additional ones can be rented for a monthly fee.
And that is exactly how we get IP addresses.

Links, please.

I don't care, I don't use AWS. I use a couple of other providers, and apparently these are all banned.

There's your reason for the IP ban.

which means there is a lot more skill underway.

Now that just doesn't make sense no matter how I twist it.

Yeah, then they want to know how many (hundreds or thousands of) users are concerned.

Maybe re-phrasing your issue might help. No, they will not edit firewall rules for the whole IP block, but they might be willing to whitelist your specific IP if you know how to ask. I've seen that kind of thing happen in enterprise environments, where an override needs to be applicable to everyone, not just you alone.

 

[PMc]

Links, please.

Sorry, trade secret.

There's your reason for the IP ban.

I don't see reason yet, but I got a hit with IPv6 now.
And that is interesting, because in IPv6 the reverse DNS zones are delegated.

Now that just doesn't mke sense no matter how I twist it.

I suppose it doesn't need to.

Maybe re-phrasing your issue might help. No, they will not edit firewall rules for the whole IP block, but they might be willing to whitelist your specific IP if you know how to ask. I've seen that kind of thing happen in enterprise environments, where an override needs to be applicable to everyone, not just you alone.

Why should I bother - or who would be paying me for such hassle?
It is one thing to state offensive behaviour, it is another to develop necessary social therapy to help people learn better behaviour.

But alright, let's explain things in a way so that maybe even reddit users could understand:
There is an idea named "capitalism", and it was developed by a sociologist named Karl Marx. It basically boils down to the fact that all productions means are owned by capitalists. Then, in order to pronounce yourself, you would need a media, like a newspaper or a radio broadcast station. But as these are means of production, only capitalists can create them. And consequentially, all public expression is controlled and ruled by the capitalists.
This is considered an unjust situation by the followers of Karl Marx, but their proposed solution basically consists of killing lots of people, and that did practically never work out well.

This is why we then built the Internet: to do away with this unjust situation once and for all. With the Internet you do no longer need to own a newspaper printing facility, or a radio broadcast station. In the Internet every node has an IP-address, and every IP-address is capable of utilizing all the facities of the network. There is no longer a discrimination between capitalists and labourers.

This did work out well during the later part of the last century. After that, however, people somehow decided to artificially recreate the discrimination between content providing organizations and passive consumers. Now these content providing organizations are in a position to dictate all the rules, while the passive consumers are expected to just listen to advertisements and buy all kinds of worthless crap.

Now grahamperrin states:

I'm seeking solutions.

I'm not sure what kind of solution that might be.
For certain we had a solution already, but it was deliberately discarded by the public. So what would it be good for?

 

[Cath O'Deray]

Karl Marx.

<https://old.reddit.com/r/karlmarx/>

 

[astyle]

Sorry, trade secret.

Come on, I know what Seattle shops are like. I'm on US West Coast. And I can explain what they mean when they say they have servers with 4 IP addresses for rent.

Why should I bother - or who would be paying me for such hassle?

If you want to connect to Reddit, then yes, you should bother. Knowing how to ask for something does make a difference in whether you get it or not. I guess it's a matter of how motivated you are to get to Reddit...

But alright, let's explain things in a way so that maybe even reddit users could understand:
There is an idea named "capitalism", and it was developed by a sociologist named Karl Marx. It basically boils down to the fact that all productions means are owned by capitalists. Then, in order to pronounce yourself, you would need a media, like a newspaper or a radio broadcast station. But as these are means of production, only capitalists can create them. And consequentially, all public expression is controlled and ruled by the capitalists.
This is considered an unjust situation by the followers of Karl Marx, but their proposed solution basically consists of killing lots of people, and that did practically never work out well.

This is why we then built the Internet: to do away with this unjust situation once and for all. With the Internet you do no longer need to own a newspaper printing facility, or a radio broadcast station. In the Internet every node has an IP-address, and every IP-address is capable of utilizing all the facities of the network. There is no longer a discrimination between capitalists and labourers.

This did work out well during the later part of the last century. After that, however, people somehow decided to artificially recreate the discrimination between content providing organizations and passive consumers. Now these content providing organizations are in a position to dictate all the rules, while the passive consumers are expected to just listen to advertisements and buy all kinds of worthless crap.

Internet was built primarily for US Army communications.

We already ran out of Internet-legal IPv4 addresses, and ISPs around the planet are using IPv6 to move the data. And hardware does cost money no matter how you slice it. If the government won't pay that money, private sector will - and claim the right to call the shots on access and the data moving through the metal.

 

[PMc]

<https://old.reddit.com/r/karlmarx/>

Your request has been blocked due to a network policy.

 

[astyle]

Look, no VPN!

 

[PMc]

Come on, I know what Seattle shops are like. I'm on US West Coast.

Okay, I tell You, You tell me.

And I can explain what they mean when they say they have servers with 4 IP addresses for rent.

So what do they mean?

https://oneprovider.com/configure/dediconf/2374

If you want to connect to Reddit, then yes, you should bother. Knowing how to ask for something does make a difference in whether you get it or not. I guess it's a matter of how motivated you are to get to Reddit...

Not much. There are just hits in the search engine, that appear somehow relevant, and it is annoying to get a stupid message instead. But then when I bother to find ways to read the actual article, most of the time it is not worth reading. So maybe the ban ist just the right thing to warn me that what would be behind is not worth it.

Internet was built primarily for US Army communications.

Yes, that is about half true. But it doesn't matter who actually paid for the resarch . What I did describe are inherent qualities of the network, as a technologiy and a social factor. And you can't say I did describe them wrongly.
This is a much broader scale than just the technology itself, it's about how people interact, how society develops as a whole. And while there was a time when people started to speak up, to be concerned about social and humanitarian issues and about how we live together, we're now back in a dark age where global super-corps run the population like they were NPCs.

The Internet itself, as a concept, was promoted by D-ARPA. But the stack, the assortment of software that runs on a contemporary machine, desktop or server, it is all free of charge. Some part of it was built by universities, from taxpayer money, but the larger part, by some kind of people as enthusiasts, without getting paid anything. And this stack of ressources is now used by international super-corps to get unimaginable rich - so rich they can buy themselves whole islands...
So, what is wrong here?

Something else: recently I upgraded my nameservers from BIND 9.16 to 9.18. And it all failed and the network fell apart. Why - because a few directories had been renamed and the zone files weren't found anymore. They were renamed from 'master' to 'primary' and from 'slave' to 'secondary'. An entirely pointless change with no functional advantage, only intended to break things.

So, why are people so eager to foster newspeak and to probibit the use of the word "slave"? Might it be because these immeaurably rich super-corps are afraid somebody might call them what they really are: slave-drivers?

 

[astyle]

So what do they mean?
https://oneprovider.com/configure/dediconf/2374

Thanks for providing the link... I tried looking around. It is a reseller that has branches in EU, is there anything special about Seattle in particular? As for specifically blocking off 4 IPv4 addresses - they have suspiciously little info about that beyond "Base IP Amount: 4". If it were important to me to have 4 Internet-legal IPv4 addresses on my one public-facing server, I'd confirm that with the sales team before signing up for anything. And this shop does not offer refunds if you fail to ask. Most people only need one Internet-legal IPv4 address for most scenarios. And in the event the scenario requires more than one server, there's always NAT.

Master–slave (technology) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Even git has master repo and slave repo. Granted, the terminology is a bit dated, and there's more of "Primary/Secondary/Mirror", "Tier1/2", etc. to differentiate between levels of importance and functionality... I probably would not nitpick at the political/social implications of the vocabulary in this context, just learn a few more synonyms.

Something else: recently I upgraded my nameservers from BIND 9.16 to 9.18. And it all failed and the network fell apart. Why - because a few directories had been renamed and the zone files weren't found anymore. They were renamed from 'master' to 'primary' and from 'slave' to 'secondary'. An entirely pointless change with no functional advantage, only intended to break things.

Sounds like dns/bind916and dns/bind918 maintainers did not do a very good job on making the move/upgrade a workable solution. In most cases, admins stick with the UNIX software they have, and avoid upgrading - precisely because of risks like this. Especially when a billion dollar business is riding on BIND being functional.

 

[Cath O'Deray]

Imagine a limit to how far things might reasonably stray away, beyond, above, below, to the left or right, off, off, off of off-topic. Rule 5 uses the phrase "no particular topic".

Here, we do have a particular topic:

reddit vs discord​

Alain De Vos began:

… It's like reddit & discord attract another kind of public.

To me, that sounds like a focus on:

• the user bases (of two places where large numbers of people gather to discuss).

First, drhowarddrfine responded with attention to things such as people's ability to spell. Fair enough, it's true that – for a variety of reasons – not all users can spell properly.

Then, cracauer@ brought IRC into the mix. Fair enough, IRC is like a place for discussion.

And so on.

… super-corps … slave-drivers?

As a user of both Reddit and Discord – their FreeBSD-related areas in particular – I never felt enslaved.

Your request has been blocked due to a network policy.

Again, please, don't confuse your way of thinking with my way of thinking.

Your request was blocked, Tor Browser is a near-certain workaround, you certainly won't use Tor browser.

My request was not blocked. I'm certain.

 

[Cath O'Deray]

> You can read Reddit's Terms of Service here.

For clarity: the linked page <https://www.reddit.com/wiki/api/> is API-specific. For developers, not intended for ordinary end users.

Not blocked:

• User Agreement - February 15, 2024 - Reddit

❝… Hello, redditors and people of the Internet! This Reddit User Agreement (“Terms”) applies to your access to and use of the websites, mobile apps, widgets, APIs, emails, and other online products and services (collectively, the “Services”) provided by Reddit, Inc. (“Reddit,” “we,” “us,” or “our”).… ❞

---

Side note:

• lowercase r for redditors
• uppercase R for Reddit.

 

[drhowarddrfine]

grahamperrin I don't understand your incessant promotion of reddit usage here. It's as if you are wanting to attract people there instead of here.

 

[smithi]

grahamperrin I don't understand your incessant promotion of reddit usage here. It's as if you are wanting to attract people there instead of here.

I'm finding this whole thing beyond understanding. I'm starting by 'unwatching' this thread and likely any other becoming toxic enough that someone deems themself off-topic moderator.

 

[astyle]

grahamperrin I don't understand your incessant promotion of reddit usage here. It's as if you are wanting to attract people there instead of here.

Well, in this thread, I'd hardly call that 'promotion'... Yeah, it did start out as an analysis of audience differences, but eventually became an issue of reachability. Reddit has been difficult for some to reach from EU, while there's very few complaints (if any) about Discord being difficult to reach from EU.

 

[Cath O'Deray]

smithi I don't feel the need to make public proclamations of disinterest. If you walked out of a cinema, would you shout "I'm leaving" so loud that everyone in the audience looked away from the screen, to you?

Was it not enough to simply unwatch? Or was your intention to stir things up by telling everyone?

---

For all readers with a genuine interest: I recently discovered subtle changes to Reddit that might significantly affect its user base. The information that I gathered, I'm keeping to myself until things settle here.

---

I don't understand

Maybe the simplest of facts: your repeated statements that you don't use Reddit. Recalling Barney's comment,

… why do you pretend to know the current state of reddit?

Given the reportedly long absences from Reddit, and the lack of familiarity that probably ensued: please help readers to understand your habitual off-topic mentions of Reddit (as pictured below, for example); can you explain the keenness of your current interest?

If you can explain without bringing people's favourite programming languages (below) or IPv6 connectivity (below), into this topic, it might help.

If you don't respond, I'll not be offended.

Thanks

 

[msplsh]

Nobody, collectively, cares about one person's IP block to Reddit. WTH, give it up.

 

[PMc]

Thanks for providing the link... I tried looking around. It is a reseller that has branches in EU, is there anything special about Seattle in particular?

What's special with these servers is that they come with 4, as you said, "ethernet cards". Or something along that line.

As for specifically blocking off 4 IPv4 addresses - they have suspiciously little info about that beyond "Base IP Amount: 4". If it were important to me to have 4 Internet-legal IPv4 addresses on my one public-facing server, I'd confirm that with the sales team before signing up for anything. And this shop does not offer refunds if you fail to ask.

Don't babble. I have machines rented from that shop, l know what I get and how to deal with. "Base IP amount" means the number of IPv4 addresses included by default, and one can usually add more of them when ordering, for about 3$ per address per month.

It seems that "they mean ethernet cards" was one of those quick-shots of Yours, just like "one cannot dynamically rewrite firewall rules", which do usually miss with me. You might consider to instead just ask me friendly how I'm doing things - because usually I know what I am doing, and the fact that people rarely do such things (outside of Russia, of course) doesn't mean they do not work.

Most people only need one Internet-legal IPv4 address for most scenarios. And in the event the scenario requires more than one server, there's always NAT.

There are a lot of things that are problematic with NAT. Client side and even more server side.
I don't know why these server come with four addresses, but given that they are old machines, and dual xeon, it may have been the idea to run a couple of guest installations on them.
I found them interesting at first glance, because, the cheapest of them is just 20$, one could use it as offsite backup, plus run port builds all the time -which would pay off half the price for the electricity-, and finally move the 3 additional IP addresses to some other place where they are useful. But then the sizing did not really figure out, and I had to look for something else.

Master–slave (technology) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Even git has master repo and slave repo. Granted, the terminology is a bit dated, and there's more of "Primary/Secondary/Mirror", "Tier1/2", etc. to differentiate between levels of importance and functionality... I probably would not nitpick at the political/social implications of the vocabulary in this context, just learn a few more synonyms.

That's what I got told - that we must not say 'master' or 'slave' anymore because the african people might get offended.

Sounds like dns/bind916and dns/bind918 maintainers did not do a very good job on making the move/upgrade a workable solution. In most cases, admins stick with the UNIX software they have, and avoid upgrading - precisely because of risks like this. Especially when a billion dollar business is riding on BIND being functional.

Exactly, but certainly no price is too high for political correctness.

 

[PMc]

Nobody, collectively, cares about one person's IP block to Reddit. WTH, give it up.

That's what I am saying.
We should duly note that reddit is apparently blocking the whole of AWS, and as it seems also the whole of HurricaneElectric, and probably also every other cloud provider, and leave it at that.

 

[PMc]

As a user of both Reddit and Discord – their FreeBSD-related areas in particular – I never felt enslaved.

A user is usually not a coder. How many seconds is Your attention span?

 

[Cath O'Deray]

developers, not intended for ordinary end users.

A user is usually not a coder.

That's sort of why I distinguished between developers and ordinary end users.

HurricaneElectric

I'll review with my Hurricane Electric tunnel when I get home.

(I used it very frequently in the past, for hours on end, I can't imagine that all of those periods involved zero use of Reddit.)

 

[PMc]

I'll review with my Hurricane Electric tunnel when I get home.

(I used it very frequently in the past, for hours on end, I can't imagine that all of those periods involved zero use of Reddit.)

That's simple: reddit does not have IPv6.

https://reddit.com redirects to https://www.reddit.com, and that gives:

$ host www.reddit.com
www.reddit.com is an alias for reddit.map.fastly.net.
reddit.map.fastly.net has address 199.232.189.140

OTOH:

$ host reddit.com
reddit.com has address 151.101.193.140
reddit.com has address 151.101.65.140
reddit.com has address 151.101.1.140
reddit.com has address 151.101.129.140
reddit.com has IPv6 address 2a04:4e42:600::396
reddit.com has IPv6 address 2a04:4e42:200::396
reddit.com has IPv6 address 2a04:4e42::396
reddit.com has IPv6 address 2a04:4e42:400::396
reddit.com mail is handled by 1 aspmx.l.google.com.
reddit.com mail is handled by 5 alt2.aspmx.l.google.com.
reddit.com mail is handled by 10 aspmx2.googlemail.com.
reddit.com mail is handled by 10 aspmx3.googlemail.com.
reddit.com mail is handled by 5 alt1.aspmx.l.google.com.

This is why I did ask earlier about IPv6. Because always when I follow a link, it is an IPv4 address that shows up as blocked - which shouldn't be the case, because my machines are configured to prefer IPv6 (and "show my ip" does usually show both).

Only once I have now seen my IPv6 HE tunnel IP blocked just the same.