Solved Why FreeBSD secret tricks?

scottro

Daemon

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I am not sure of the truth of the statement that the old time gurus are using Macs. As has been pointed out, a while back in a thread I can't find, this seems to be based by a statement of a former member, who was at a conference where most people used Macs, and he would point out that this wasn't true for OpenBSD developers. I'm not saying it's not true, just that I don't think what one person noticed at one conference necessarily holds true for the majority of FreeBSD developers.
 

Jose

Daemon

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That said, I am quite a fan of Objective-C. I think that at this point in time, languages that extend C (rather than attempt to replace it) will have the biggest success.
My biggest problem with Objective-C is the lack of namespaces causing everythingHavingAReallyReallyLongName. Forum user Obsigna has a nice guide for using Objective-C in Freebsd:
 

Trihexagonal

Son of Beastie

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I am not sure of the truth of the statement that the old time gurus are using Macs.
The Honorable drhowarddrfine corrected me on that statement with stats to back it up:
Trihexagonal said:
I was under the impression Macs were very popular with Developers.
According to Stack Overflow's survey, 27.5% of developers use a Mac and is one percent more than those who use Linux.
 

astyle

Aspiring Daemon

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Macs suffer vendor lock-in and are expensive. And back when they used Intel processors, a Windows PC with the exact same specs was available for half the price. I went through owning 2 Ipod Touch devices before ditching Apple for good - on Apple iOS (not to be confused with older Cisco's iOS for industrial-grade routers) you could not just use an iDevice as a USB stick - you had to install an app from the iTunes, it was awkward to use, and I was stuck with iTunes offerings. Even jailbreaking the iDevices did not do much to help the situation. And Mac desktops are very similar in that regard - the graphics are shiny, hardware specs are great - but using them is just awkward, and alternatives are very limited - either crippled freeware or you have to pay for a limited choice of offerings that do work properly.

As this thread points out - Objective-C is basically a Mac thing - yeah, and devs have to pay a steep fee to buy a properly working compiler, then another steep fee to buy an IDE that actually works on a Mac, and then another steep fee to be part of the network that develops for the iTunes online shop. Apple fleeces people from money just about every step of the way.

I'd rather use straight FreeBSD, and learn how to take advantage of it to get real performance out of my after-market hardware, than put up with all that Apple crap.
 

drhowarddrfine

Son of Beastie

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a Windows PC with the exact same specs was available for half the price.
Windows does not guarantee interoperability of their software with your hardware and devices. Apple does and gives you a local store to bring it to for service in many cities.
 

covacat

Well-Known Member

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Macs suffer vendor lock-in and are expensive. And back when they used Intel processors, a Windows PC with the exact same specs was available for half the price. I went through owning 2 Ipod Touch devices before ditching Apple for good - on Apple iOS (not to be confused with older Cisco's iOS for industrial-grade routers) you could not just use an iDevice as a USB stick - you had to install an app from the iTunes, it was awkward to use, and I was stuck with iTunes offerings. Even jailbreaking the iDevices did not do much to help the situation. And Mac desktops are very similar in that regard - the graphics are shiny, hardware specs are great - but using them is just awkward, and alternatives are very limited - either crippled freeware or you have to pay for a limited choice of offerings that do work properly.

As this thread points out - Objective-C is basically a Mac thing - yeah, and devs have to pay a steep fee to buy a properly working compiler, then another steep fee to buy an IDE that actually works on a Mac, and then another steep fee to be part of the network that develops for the iTunes online shop. Apple fleeces people from money just about every step of the way.

I'd rather use straight FreeBSD, and learn how to take advantage of it to get real performance out of my after-market hardware, than put up with all that Apple crap.
that's mostly not true
xcode is free (compiler + ide)
free software is not worse than on other platforms
 

astyle

Aspiring Daemon

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Windows does not guarantee interoperability of their software with your hardware and devices. Apple does and gives you a local store to bring it to for service in many cities.
Most hardware comes with guarantees that it will work on Windows, though. The guarantee comes from the hardware manufacturer, not MS. Try finding a hardware vendor who will guarantee compatibility with macs - if you're lucky to find one, you'll pay more for pretty much the same capability. This is partly how Apple funds its model of support via local stores.
 

drhowarddrfine

Son of Beastie

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Most hardware comes with guarantees that it will work on Windows, though. The guarantee comes from the hardware manufacturer, not MS.
That's what I said. Microsoft does not guarantee it will work. They also won't guarantee software you run will work with your hardware. Have you ever been in the position where something didn't work on Windows and Windows people blamed the hardware but hardware people blamed Windows? Sure you have.


Try finding a hardware vendor who will guarantee compatibility with macs

Every piece of hardware and software Apple sells is guaranteed to work together. Don't third party manufacturers of Apple products also have to meet such requirements? Don't recall. Microsoft makes no such guarantees.
 

astyle

Aspiring Daemon

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Windows people blamed the hardware but hardware people blamed Windows? Sure you have.
That never happened to me. I did my shopping and research to buy quality stuff, and I read reviews. And for the few times when something didn't work on win7, it was outdated hardware that only had win95 drivers that I find on the Internet after reading the manuals.

As for what I said earlier about "Try finding a hardware vendor who will guarantee compatibility with macs", I meant not every hardware vendor will even bother certifying that the hardware works with a mac, as in writing a driver that works with macs. That kind of effort is only made for overpriced devices where profit margins are fat.
 

Beastie7

Aspiring Daemon

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Every piece of hardware and software Apple sells is guaranteed to work together. Don't third party manufacturers of Apple products also have to meet such requirements? Don't recall. Microsoft makes no such guarantees.

Surely you're aware of Microsoft's WHQL.
 

astyle

Aspiring Daemon

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Surely you're aware of Microsoft's WHQL.
Ah, yes, I heard about that one... it came up during the Vista madness of the 32/64 bit migration. I totally forgot about it, because 32-bit stuff runs just fine on 64-bit hardware, and FreeBSD even provides a compat layer for 32-bit binaries in its base install. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure Apple went through pretty much the same thing on their end, only on a smaller scale due to the very limited numbers of devices that were even compatible at the time.
 
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