What do you think about a "SteamBSD" machine ?

[jardows]

Interesting comparison in cases there. The DB4 is elegant, understated, and quiet. It is something that just sits there out of the way and does its job. Very much like FreeBSD.
The AZZA case is unique, eye-catching, and definitely gives a "fun" vibe. This aesthetic declares that it is a high-tech machine that is fun to use.
I think the AZZA case would be more appealing to gamers. The DB4 would be more appealing to FreeBSD gamers.

From a more technical perspective, I like the idea of fanless cases, but am a little concerned that some performance may be sacrificed for the sake of quietness. As long as it can keep temperatures under control, the lack of fans would increase the reliability by taking out that mechanical failure point.
The AZZA case is going to take up a lot more space on the desktop, but also give more flexibility for internal parts and configuration. This would work well if you wanted the device to double as a general purpose workstation in addition to the gaming box.

Ultimately, I think my preference for this project falls on the DB4, as with carefully selected components, the main technical advantages of the AZZA case diminish, and the smaller footprint of the DB4 becomes a significant advantage. Plus I personally prefer understated computer cases!

 

[Maturin]

Which of the two do you prefer ?

I would prefer the first one.
It looks cool, its elegance comes from its functionality, not enshittified with pointless eyecandy toys, and above all it's fanless.

 

[DanielBowman]

Games will become terminal servers - sending you screens, generated (portions of it) by LLM on a server farm. Not because it makes sense but because it will force players to the cloud/subscriptions. Microsoft and PS were already trying this. Now they ditch the DVDs, next year you won't even download the game. They just rent you the screens. And you won't need the (super expensive) hardware to process it beyond 8K Monitor/TV/VR goggles and some terminal client with 10Gbit network.

 

[ZioMario]

Games will become terminal servers - sending you screens, generated (portions of it) by LLM on a server farm. Not because it makes sense but because it will force players to the cloud/subscriptions. Microsoft and PS were already trying this. Now they ditch the DVDs, next year you won't even download the game. They just rent you the screens. And you won't need the (super expensive) hardware to process it beyond 8K Monitor/TV/VR goggles and some terminal client with 10Gbit network.

Yes,I suppose it will happens. So. ok. Our machine will change name from SteamBSD machine to SteamBSD Retrogame machine.

 

[Zare]

ZioMario, I didn't catch in your thread if this is some kind of a pet project or proof of concept, or are you planning to develop a commercial product for sale?

Its a vibe code idea/project that people nowadays do all the time.
Nobody ever cares about maintenance. The fact that zioMario is going to orchestrate a bot to produce millions lines of code nobody understands is totally irrelevant.

Nobody can inherit this project. I think the urge to create FreeBSD associated products is noble, and for applaud. But vibe is not for products. It is not even for the phase 1 of the product. You cannot have a huge software project set up and 'cooked' somehow by a non programmer, I'm sorry but that is a reality.

 

[ZioMario]

The fact that zioMario is going to orchestrate a bot to produce millions lines of code nobody understands

For me your sentences should be reformulated in this way :

The fact that zioMario is going to orchestrate a bot to produce millions lines of code nobody *wants to understands*

You cannot have a huge software project set up and 'cooked' somehow by a non programmer, I'm sorry but that is a reality.

This is YOUR reality. I'm available to cooperate with devs willing to review the code I produce to make it more secure. If I were to come up with something interesting and couldn't find anyone to support it, some people have the opportunity to ask themselves why.

In any case, I have nothing to lose. I’ll have had fun, learned a lot, and built something interesting and useful that I’ll use for my own enjoyment (assuming I will manage to do it)... while you’ll be left with nothing....bearing in mind that FreeBSD's rate of innovation is not generally directed towards desktop and multimedia development,you will see a project like this in 30 years.

 

[NapoleonWils0n]

This would unequivocally be the case for our SteamBSD machine :

Asking people to choose case for a steam machine
that doesnt have any code yet is jumping the gun a bit.

our SteamBsd machine,
you mean my SteamBSD machine

apart from you
i dont think anyone else would want to use vibe coded Freebsd steam machine

I'm available to cooperate with devs willing to review the code I produce to make it more secure.

I doubt you are going to to find any devs
that would be willing to spend their time fixing a vibe coded project

 

[ZioMario]

Asking people to choose case for a steam machine
that doesnt have any code yet is jumping the gun a bit.

our SteamBsd machine,
you mean my SteamBSD machine

apart from you
i dont think anyone else would want to use vibe coded Freebsd steam machine

That's partially false. I shared the project here with those who want to participate. If no one wants,the project remains mine—but only because no one wants to participate. The idea—if we want say so—is mine, but I would like the implementation to involve multiple users.

I doubt you are going to to find any devs
that would be willing to spend their time fixing a vibe coded project

If it weren't just a "vibe project," what do you think would happen ? Would I find people interested in collaborating ?

I don't understand why we can't mix code written using the brain with code written by Claude.

My sensation is that you hardly ever use AI (and not only you : I was able to clearly gather—from the way they spoke about it—that many excellent old-school developers didn't even know how vibe coding works).

Your highly negative view of AI-generated code stems from personal reasons that have little to do with the quality or utility of the code itself. I gather this because you never take a balanced approach—you never list the benefits of programming with AI. You overlook them. I wonder why.

You know, I’m used to thoroughly weighing the pros and cons of using a tool; when I see someone who can’t seem to acknowledge a single advantage, I get suspicious and start to think their stance is driven by prejudice.

 

[MG]

A portal for ALL games would be more interesting. While I never used it, how is Steam not just a remote fileserver + closed source graphics driver? I don't think there's a real service. It's based on a unfair technical advantage of having the knowledge to operate a GPU more than consumers in private.

 

[Espionage724]

A portal for ALL games would be more interesting. While I never used it, how is Steam not just a remote fileserver + closed source graphics driver? I don't think there's a real service. It's based on a unfair technical advantage of having the knowledge to operate a GPU more than consumers in private.

You can add non-Steam games to Steam library, and remote stream em

There's no one-solution for all games though and individual games need individual set-ups/tweaks (largely why I use Wine through command-line vs something like Lutris; SteamCMD gives me more control + lighter vs GUI Steam and Proton's complexity imo isn't worth the hookups outside GUI Steam vs OS-provided Wine)

 

[Zare]

you never list the benefits of programming with AI.

Oh there are a ton of benefits for programming with AI, as a tool for programmers.

In hands of non programmers it is a slop machine. You simply do not have enough knowledge to force it on track with right decisions. You cannot have enough knowledge to modify linuxlator and FreeBSD kernel and the graphics stack unless you're already a programmer. It is like claiming you know everything with cars but you cannot operate wrenches and screwdrivers and never had your hands dirty in oil.

It is not a view, it is a fact. Software is produced by software engineers. It is a trade. AI does not allow you to transcend trades. I don't know how you aren't able to understand that. I cannot become economist, lawyer, doctor. I'm not sure why people expect only ICT professionals to not respond harshly to this kind of bs - if you told a lawyer or physician you are about to resolve legal or medical case of grand proportions they'd rightfully laugh at your face and never talk to you again about serious topics.

I'm leaving this thread with simple advice - use AI to learn programming. Write your own, minimal modifications of FreeBSD kernel, aided by off-system AI. Once you can call yourself a programmer, and the bar isn't high, then start doing software engineering, vibe coded or not.

 

[MG]

You can add non-Steam games to Steam library, and remote stream em

There's no one-solution for all games though and individual games need individual set-ups/tweaks (largely why I use Wine through command-line vs something like Lutris; SteamCMD gives me more control + lighter vs GUI Steam and Proton's complexity imo isn't worth the hookups outside GUI Steam vs OS-provided Wine)

A solution that surrounds everything? I play mostly classic DOS and PS1/PS2 games and some Nintendo from a local medium. Steam games could be an additional option. Games are all fullscreen, so the technical difference doesn't have to exist. A game is a file...

 

[NapoleonWils0n]

If the project wasnt vibe coded and it was as good as windows, mac or linux
then people would be interested.

In hands of non programmers it is a slop machine. You simply do not have enough knowledge to force it on track with right decisions. You cannot have enough knowledge to modify linuxlator and FreeBSD kernel and the graphics stack unless you're already a programmer. It is like claiming you know everything with cars but you cannot operate wrenches and screwdrivers and never had your hands dirty in oil.

Thats the issue in a nutshell,
if you dont have knowledge of the subject you have no way of knowing if any of the code is correct.

You are just taking the AI's word for it.

Its very unlikely you will get any devs who know about the Freebsd kernel and graphics stack
who would be willing to read all the code and fix it.

Which would probably take longer than building it from scratch.

 

[ZioMario]

In hands of non programmers it is a slop machine. You simply do not have enough knowledge to force it on track with right decisions. I don't know how you aren't able to understand that.

Why you say that I don't understand that ? If I didn't understand, why I'm sharing the project details here and there ? Why I would like the implementation to involve multiple users ?

Why I want to invite devs and users ? why I'm talking about to mix code written using the brain with code written by AI ?

I didn't start to program this project,yet. I'm waiting for someone interested for a collaboration. I could start the project,finish it and keep it for me. But I want to make something that most people can enjoy.

Its not my "fault" if no one is interested to talk about the prerequisites for starting. "Unfortunately" I can only use AI,but at this point I think that's not even fair that I stop because I don't know how to program, since I have a tool called AI in my hands than can. Not perfectly, but it can.

 

[ZioMario]

Which would probably take longer than building it from scratch.

The situation is interesting because if it were up to them, FreeBSD would remain in the Stone Age when it comes to graphics and multimedia development. They simply don't care because they use it for servers, mostly. But FreeBSD has also grown in recent years in the desktop space thanks to individual contributions. If they don't read my code, they won't even write their own. And we're all losing. But then maybe there's a solution we hadn't thought of, like being able to write the code in pieces, in blocks, have it reviewed, and then continue. Instead of submitting it all in one piece for review (I'm improvising). But I guess that's not good enough either....

 

[Professor_Fate]

FreeBSD prioritizing server use is definitely not remaining in the stone age. You're using it for the wrong reasons and honestly Windows is perfect for your use case!

 

[shkhln]

We reached the 100+ working Steam games target years ago. I'd suggest to pick some other project. Why on Earth everybody seems to be trying to vibe code something specifically on top of my work is beyond me (there were already 2 incidents with my other projects just this year).

 

[ZioMario]

FreeBSD prioritizing server use is definitely not remaining in the stone age. You're using it for the wrong reasons and honestly Windows is perfect for your use case!

One thing's for sure. I don't want to turn FreeBSD into Windows. I haven't used Windows in ages, and I've even stopped using Linux because I've seen it slowly becoming similar to it (in some ways). As for the SteamBSD machine, I'd see it more as a push, an attempt for FreeBSD to support a restricted list of games. I'm not attracted to the idea to have an operating system oriented to gaming, like Valve aims to make Linux.

 

[ZioMario]

We reached the 100+ working Steam games target years ago. I'd suggest to pick some other project. Why on Earth everybody seems to be trying to vibe code something specifically on top of my work is beyond me (there were already 2 incidents with my other projects just this year).

I don't want to cause you any trouble. Can you envision a collaboration ? Do you like the idea to run your games—and others—on dedicated hardware ?

 

[LibreQuest]

I am 100% behind this idea. But I would have to say I think it is a mistake to use an AI that has not been trained on a specific set of compatible licensed source. That seems like a careless thing to do.

 

[Maturin]

Why on Earth everybody seems to be trying to vibe code something specifically on top of my work is beyond me (there were already 2 incidents with my other projects just this year).

Publish stuff on GitHub, and then complain its being used by somebody for vibe coding does not match for me.

 

[NapoleonWils0n]

The problem trying to build such a massive project with AI
involving changing the Freebsd kernel, Linuxulator and graphics stack is the size of the AI's context window.

The context window is fixed and determines how much information it can store about a conversation,
its essentially the size of its brain and as new information comes in it has to make room for it.

Different AI tools have various techniques to manage that.

The human brain can store massive amount of data and recall it,
once a AI model context window fills up it will struggle to recall early parts of the project and start to hallucinate.

 

[shkhln]

Publish stuff on GitHub, and then complain its being used by somebody for vibe coding does not match for me.

You are entirely irrelevant here, Mr. Smartass.

 

[Zare]

Its not my "fault" if no one is interested to talk about the prerequisites for starting. "Unfortunately" I can only use AI,but at this point I think that's not even fair that I stop because I don't know how to program, since I have a tool called AI in my hands than can. Not perfectly, but it can

This is the biggest mistake. Programming is not act of spitting out code. Programming happens in the head. The code is a formalization of programmer's mindset. Nothing apart from living beings has mind. Lets not go into metaphysics mumbo jumbo. We live, computers don't.

A medium sized project built by layman vibe code is this

Imagine yourself as a proper architect and somebody comes to you, bro, why wouldn't you work on my home, I want to collaborate.
That is the answer why vibe projects struggle to get real programmers on board. You don't actually know what kind of monstrosity AI created for you.

Unless a programmer you can't know what it feels like to maintain a project over time. Even half of real programmers don't understand that because they never worked in proper software engineering but hit and run startup projects.

 

[ZioMario]

You are entirely irrelevant here, Mr. Smartass.

why is entirely irrelevant here,mister Mr. "Know-it-all" ? (with an ironic tone).