What are the freebsd O.S. things you don't understand ?

It is quite cumbersome to build a custom kernel and its configuration, it is quite cumbersome to configure and customize the (cpu, frequency, proper graphic driver) so that the temperature does not go through the clouds and not the machine dies. It is quite cumbersome configuration and customization of the file additions in login.conf, the same in loader.conf and others like rc.conf, sysctl.conf, devfs.conf, devfs.rules, etc, and worse for external devices like smartphone.
 
I don't understand why people use WINE or Jails to run other OS or other OS-software.

The software and its support here is great. There is no need to look elswhere.
 
I don't understand why people use WINE or Jails to run other OS or other OS-software.

The software and its support here is great. There is no need to look elswhere.
This is what those who use server do not understand, in the daily life, people use programs to develop in their jobs, there are certain programs that are in linux but are not compatible with FreeBSD, there are other programs that are on windows but are not compatible with other systems. Some people use wine, and others prefer to install virtual machines and palliate the deficiencies that FreeBSD has.
 
It is quite cumbersome to build a custom kernel and its configuration, it is quite cumbersome to configure and customize the (cpu, frequency, proper graphic driver) so that the temperature does not go through the roof and the machine dies. It is quite cumbersome configuration and customization of the file additions in login.conf, the same in loader.conf and others like rc.conf, sysctl.conf, devfs.conf, devfs.rules, etc, and worse for external devices like smartphone.
As I really can't agree with one single of these statements (in my experience, all these things are remarkably simple and clear in FreeBSD), it seems there are some things you don't understand. But to help with that, I guess you'd have to open threads about specific problems and go into some detail...
 
As I really can't agree with one single of these statements (in my experience, all these things are remarkably simple and clear in FreeBSD), it seems there are some things you don't understand. But to help with that, I guess you'd have to open threads about specific problems and go into some detail...
My answer is related to the things that I do not understand open in the main topic. You will understand it, but it is cumbersome for me because I am not a professional in systems.
 
I don't understand why people use WINE or Jails to run other OS or other OS-software.
Why not? I use Wine for a few very "special" tools for C64 development (editors for sprites and charsets). They're closed-source and Windows-only. They're not complex software, so maybe one day when I have too much time, I will create similar tools just using Qt instead ;) (I already created a GUI disk editor for C64 disks, which is even available in ports ... before I did that, I also needed Wine for that....)

I also use bhyve. It's working remarkably well. One VM is running Linux, because my Wifi access points come with a braindead "controller" software that, although written in Java, won't run on FreeBSD. Another VM is running "Windows Server", because I work at a Windows/.NET shop. I wouldn't actually need it for remote work, but it's nice to have a (virtual) machine available at home as well for experiments.

The software and its support here is great.
Agreed. But some special cases will almost always exist. With Emulation, Virtualization, Jails and the "Linuxulator" (compatibility on syscall-level), FreeBSD offers more than enough ways to run "almost anything" :cool:
 
Agreed. But some special cases will almost always exist. With Emulation, Virtualization, Jails and the "Linuxulator" (compatibility on syscall-level), FreeBSD offers more than enough ways to run "almost anything"
"Special cases" in my case include:
  • Wifi cards. FreeBSD only plays well with Intel-branded stuff, and with others, YMMV
  • Scanners. I have a couple Epson scanners, but neither is compatible with any of the SANE drivers. And I have my reasons for not wanting to go out and look for a compatible scanner - got plenty on my plate already.
  • Webcams. Those are an iffy proposition on FreeBSD, unfortunately.
  • Zoom. Yeah, it's pretty much a requirement for me to have it for most virtual meetings. The version on FreeBSD is several versions behind the most current one. And the Zoom infrastructure demands the most current version for logging in.
  • Skype. Yeah, it can be run in Firefox, but even with everything lining up, Skype is still pretty limited in Firefox on FreeBSD.
  • Firefox. Memory leaks of www/firefox are horrendous. I am exploring ways to remediate that, haven't tried everything (got a lot on my plate), but for now, it's a showstopper for me.

As for stuff on FreeBSD that I don't understand - yeah, there's a lot, but I'm not too worried about that, because the documentation is there, and pretty well organized. If I want to learn about specific sysctls - it's not that hard to look through the documentation and learn. It does take a specific approach to learning.

I see a lot of people get lost in documentation because their approach is "OK, I wanna mess with these buttons, what do they do?". I'd ask them why they wanna mess with the buttons in the first place. Oftentimes, it's easier to accomplish the bigger goal without messing with those specific buttons at all. As an example, someone wanted to mess with /etc/fstab recently. I suggested to basically avoid messing with system settings unless absolutely necessary. And on my systems, I personally practice what I preach... :p
 
astyle, I wasn't talking about "compatible hardware", which is yet another topic, although then I guess I'm just lucky, all my peripherals work ;)

As for firefox, I don't use it regularly so can't say anything about memory leaks. Did you check plugins/extensions? I personally use chromium as my "daily driver" browser. At least I can be sure there's no problem with memory leaks, it sometimes runs for weeks (with tons of open tabs). And when I need it (which is rare), Zoom and Skype also work well. What I need daily is MS Teams (my company's choice), which also works well in chromium.

Edit: Talking about browsers, I was never really satisfied with them. Nowadays, "usable" browsers are monstrosities (there's a lot more complexity in chromium than in the whole FreeBSD base), and that's mostly because of the direction the "modern" web took, evolving into some kind of application platform. I still prefer this current situation over the very strange period of time directly after the "browser wars", when Internet Explorer 5 was the "sanest" browser you could have (and it was even available for e.g. HP-UX, but not for example on Linux, all you had there was the horribly broken Netscape 4.7). Back then, the Mozilla project emerging was like a gift from heaven 🙈
 
Now that Microsoft obliterated their on-prem software for Azure cloud bull💩, I'm so thankful bhyve exists. I'm tired of this idiotic trend.
 
This is not a call to be royally trolled.
I don't understand why FreeBSD does not offer support for DRM content like Netflix. Netflix is served on a FreeBSD appliance. I'm guessing this is a Netflix proprietary issue?
Yes, I believe so. I don't think the issue is so much that FreeBSD can't support DRM services (like Widevine), as it is that they don't want to support them, and this is because FreeBSD prefers to support the open-source and free software communities, of which they are a very important part, more than they wish to support the proprietary intellectual property communities that deliver DRM content, like Netflix. And I think, as cracauer stated above, that the issue is also very much one of control. Allowing DRM software control of the FreeBSD kernel is perhaps the primary problem... but...

freezr elaborated on some other problems with proprietary control of intellectual property. in the following thread:
 
Don't understand:

I have a 14-current install not reboot cleanly after unclean shutdown, it has fsck fail and drops to single user mode. I says
"Forced mount will invalidate journal contents" as the reason for the failed fsck. Obviously it is UFS with journal, I just never had a failure like this. What's wrong with the journal that it won't do background fsck?

/shrug
 
I don't understand why people use WINE or Jails to run other OS or other OS-software.

The software and its support here is great. There is no need to look elswhere.

I do use Wine for the Windows games, so I don't need to dual boot, or running an entire VM.
 
Yes, I believe so. I don't think the issue is so much that FreeBSD can't support DRM services (like Widevine), as it is that they don't want to support them, and this is because FreeBSD prefers to support the open-source and free software communities, of which they are a very important part, more than they wish to support the proprietary intellectual property communities that deliver DRM content, like Netflix. And I think, as cracauer stated above, that the issue is also very much one of control. Allowing DRM software control of the FreeBSD kernel is perhaps the primary problem... but...

freezr elaborated on some other problems with proprietary control of intellectual property. in the following thread:
I'm guessing that Netflix simply did a very clean separation between reading data (supporting Widevine for visual display) and moving data (copying any file from place to place over a Content Delivery Network (CDN). An unmanaged switch does not have the software to play a movie from Netflix, but it's still an essential part in moving the movie file/stream.

On my end of things, as long as I compile VLC from ports, and turn EVERYTHING on in the make config, then VLC will play just about everything, and I'm happy. I tried doing the same thing in Linux, and the process varies from distro to distro, and I spent way too much time trying to get a handle on the process. Then throw in the dependency hell on top of that. FreeBSD has dependency hell, too, that's part of Open Source turf. At least I'm sensing that FreeBSD has some direction... If Linux distros (especially one-dev shows of 'Look how I can roll my own!') are puddles, FreeBSD is a river.
 
for me, the system for installing packages is incomprehensible, in other Linuxes, install the rpm package, everything is clear
The Forums here actually are a good place to ask questions about pkg/ports. The best way to learn is to play with it, make mistakes, ask questions, read the manual pages, and spend time with it. :) pkg(7) is the FreeBSD equivalent of RPM (which stands for RedHat Package Manager). Ports are for those who don't like the default options provided by pkg(7), and want to compile that same software with more features. And that's just a start.
 
in other Linuxes
Please, read again what FreeBSD is (and what it is not)....

(and, regarding the package management: that's relatively "simple" in FreeBSD, so in very rare edge cases, problems can arise, but they are easily fixed ... which I prefer very much compared to overcomplicated package management systems that, when they ever fail, leave you completely clueless.)
 
for me, the system for installing packages is incomprehensible, in other Linuxes, install the rpm package, everything is clear
You likely don't use rpm directly. You use yum or dnf. Clarity soon reduces compared to the simplicity of FreeBSD's approach of not needing a metadata database.
 
You likely don't use rpm directly. You use yum or dnf. Clarity soon reduces compared to the simplicity of FreeBSD's approach of not needing a metadata database.
FreeBSD actually does have a metadata database for pkg... every repo has a 6 MB metadata.txz that gets downloaded every so often when pkg is invoked.

Also - there's apt for Debian, pacman for Arch, portage for Gentoo... Moving between distros means re-learning package management commands. And, there are a few distros that use rpm directly... even Fedora probably has an option for that, in spite of pushing yum (which has a different syntax, or a subset of RPM commands, I never bothered to find out). 😩
 
Regarding package management on FreeBSD and FreeBSD OS things I don't understand: why is ports-mgmt/pkg still not in base? It is 10 years (?) old now and the recommended way to install programs. Even on servers it is not uncommon to have build servers which build a package repository and the servers pull from it via pkg(8). Instead we have a bootstrap script in base which downloads the real thing on first use. That's hilarious.

With sendmail on its way out of base, maybe pkg can finally get in?
 
Regarding package management on FreeBSD and FreeBSD OS things I don't understand: why is ports-mgmt/pkg still not in base?
Simple answer, it shouldn't be tied to base release cycles. Ports are independent from base, and whenever ports frameworks get new features, there's a chance pkg must support them as well. So, all that will be in base is some "minimal" pkg just good enough to "bootstrap" pkg, and this is certainly to stay that way.
 
Simple answer, it shouldn't be tied to base release cycles. Ports are independent from base, and whenever ports frameworks get new features, there's a chance pkg must support them as well. So, all that will be in base is some "minimal" pkg just good enough to "bootstrap" pkg, and this is certainly to stay that way.
Well, that makes sense actually. One thing less I don't understand.
 
I now have to agree with Jose 's assessment of this thread... it is becoming a kitchen sink of stuff...

OP's question:
In fact this question is to reveal a bit of weakness.
I don't understand:
-Porters handbook
-PAM : Pluggable authentication module
-/etc/ttys.

Maybe you find other things different? Being difficulty relative , just like space-time.
There's many ways to interpret it...
  • Is OP inviting us to fess up to stuff that we supposedly should know by now, but embarrassed to admit that we don't?
  • Is OP looking to encourage questioning/discussion of FreeBSD design decisions? Not a bad thing, but it can be difficult to stay technical and avoid getting political if that's the case.
  • Is OP looking to encourage a 'quick question/answer thread' that is easily accessible, and users don't have to go digging through the forums to find the correct thread to ask the question in?
  • Is OP looking to encourage a discussion of how people approach the entire process of learning FreeBSD?

I suck at git, learning it would benefit me as a FreeBSD user, but I know enough to know that it's not an OS thing like sysctls... and I'm not too worried about my ability to put in effort, RTFM, and get the results I want on my machine. 😤
 
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