Uninstall battery drivers equivalent of FreeBSD (like in Windows)

[Tracker]

Have you found the place in Vantage settings yet, that completely removes and cancels any non-default thresholds?

In my last reply - the second picture shows the drop down menus for changing the thresholds - do you mean I should select different thresholds for both batteries from that? (I suppose changing those values should also do the trick - since they seem to retain the values I set before putting in the new batteries) ...... if yes - what values?

Never mind the longterm for now; I think until sorted out you need to get back to how it was before you set thresholds with that FreeBSD acpi_call method last year.

The million dollar question is: how do I get back to what it was originally?

 

[Tracker]

UPDATE - Charging percentage seems to have changed
battery0

Design capacity:    22800 mWh
Last full capacity:    16000 mWh
Technology:        secondary (rechargeable)
Battery Swappable Capability:    Non-swappable
Design voltage:        11400 mV
Capacity (warn):    800 mWh
Capacity (low):        200 mWh
Cycle Count:        3
Mesurement Accuracy:    95 %
Max Average Interval:    1000 ms
Min Average Interval:    500 ms
Low/warn granularity:    -1 mWh
Warn/full granularity:    -1 mWh
Model number:        01AV421
Serial number:           35
Type:            LiP
OEM info:        LGC
State:            high
Remaining capacity:    94%
Remaining time:        unknown
Present rate:        0 mW
Present voltage:    12624 mV

battery1

Design capacity:    48840 mWh
Last full capacity:    40310 mWh
Technology:        secondary (rechargeable)
Design voltage:        11100 mV
Capacity (warn):    2015 mWh
Capacity (low):        200 mWh
Cycle Count:        14
Mesurement Accuracy:    95 %
Max Average Interval:    1000 ms
Min Average Interval:    500 ms
Low/warn granularity:    -1 mWh
Warn/full granularity:    -1 mWh
Model number:        01AV425
Serial number:        63839
Type:            LION
OEM info:        SANYO
State:            high
Remaining capacity:    100%
Remaining time:        unknown
Present rate:        0 mW
Present voltage:    12002 mV

Is this weird or am I misunderstanding? Last full capacity doesn't seem to match the percentage (total shows 98% charged)

UPDATE : Now again its back to 79% total charge like in the reply before this :/ ..... actually sometimes charges more but sometimes gets stuck there weird ..... smithi

 

[Tracker]

Looks like nobody is home :/

 

[smithi]

Looks like nobody is home :/

So many earlier questions not answered makes it difficult to expect any advancement, but I'll try once again.

Please try responding to each:

UPDATE : Got 2 new external 61+ batteries and replaced internal battery!

What are "61+" batteries?

When it's all charged, could you post acpiconf -i0 and -i1 while it's running on battery, after a while to settle.

Please note while running on battery, after a while to settle. so discharge rates and times remaining settle down, perhaps a minute.

Somehow when I remove the battery charging adaptor the time left for batteries to discarge shows ~4 hrs and then will plummet to 2 something hrs. Is it due to the workload changing? Or the ripoff batteries acting weird?

a) What do you mean by ripoff batteries? Non-genuine parts, according to User Guide pdf?

b) Please demonstrate with acpiconf listings rather than word descriptions, best left running more or less idle.

 

[Tracker]

So many earlier questions not answered makes it difficult to expect any advancement, but I'll try once again.

I was under the impression I answered almost all. Not sure what I missed. I'll try to answer the ones asked.

What are "61+" batteries?

~48 Wh batteries, as opposed to the 24 Wh ones that are usual. There is also 61++ batteries which are difficult to get though and have even higher capacity.

Please note while running on battery, after a while to settle. so discharge rates and times remaining settle down, perhaps a minute.

I believe that's what I did. I'll still do the same again now after letting it run on battery after a minute or two. The outputs are below

a) What do you mean by ripoff batteries? Non-genuine parts, according to User Guide pdf?

b) Please demonstrate with acpiconf listings rather than word descriptions, best left running more or less idle.

a) Ripoff = not original ones, they are pretty cheap - so I would guess they are non-genuine ones.
b) Here is the output for both batteries (total charging percentage current shows 95% - for both together (sometimes it gets stuck at 79% though))
battery 0/internal

Design capacity:    22800 mWh
Last full capacity:    16000 mWh
Technology:        secondary (rechargeable)
Battery Swappable Capability:    Non-swappable
Design voltage:        11400 mV
Capacity (warn):    800 mWh
Capacity (low):        200 mWh
Cycle Count:        4
Mesurement Accuracy:    95 %
Max Average Interval:    1000 ms
Min Average Interval:    500 ms
Low/warn granularity:    -1 mWh
Warn/full granularity:    -1 mWh
Model number:        01AV421
Serial number:           35
Type:            LiP
OEM info:        LGC
State:            high
Remaining capacity:    89%
Remaining time:        1:07
Present rate:        0 mW
Present voltage:    12292 mV

battery1/external/61+

Design capacity:    48840 mWh
Last full capacity:    35490 mWh
Technology:        secondary (rechargeable)
Design voltage:        11100 mV
Capacity (warn):    1774 mWh
Capacity (low):        200 mWh
Cycle Count:        17
Mesurement Accuracy:    95 %
Max Average Interval:    1000 ms
Min Average Interval:    500 ms
Low/warn granularity:    -1 mWh
Warn/full granularity:    -1 mWh
Model number:        01AV425
Serial number:        63839
Type:            LION
OEM info:        SANYO
State:            discharging
Remaining capacity:    98%
Remaining time:        2:44
Present rate:        12689 mW
Present voltage:    12131 mV

To me it seems that the last full capacity isn't in line with the charging percentage - or maybe I am misunderstanding something?

 

[Tracker]

Seems like nobody home

 

[Crivens]

Sure. 4 here, at least. Judging by the noise from the living room there are more.

 

[Tracker]

Sure. 4 here, at least. Judging by the noise from the living room there are more.

Seems like a silent party - was hoping smithi would help out since he asked for the answers

 

[Crivens]

Seems like a silent party - was hoping smithi would help out since he asked for the answers

Kids. What can I say? As long as there is noise, it's okay. When the whispering starts and then there is silence...

 

[juha]

Tracker, probably better off keeping an eye on LEDs to see when the battery / batteries are fully charged ... yet to see any operating system that will report accurate battery charge on a laptop myself, this has been my experience after working with laptops over the years, so yeah just leave it plugged in to power and possibly use the pin hole method if it has one, they will want Microsoft Windows to troubleshoot assuming it is in warranty

 

[smithi]

Seems like a silent party - was hoping smithi would help out since he asked for the answers

Hard to get good help these days? ;-)

Couple of issues: a) I've been ill; b) a disastrous upgrade of my long-favourite Android text editor lost half a dozen files I was working on, including two with stuff for you, one a discharge/recharge script to try resuscitating your new but never fully charged batteries!

Here's the earlier portion of one, as saved on 26 Feb, which reveals what maths acpiconf uses, and what data from the battery (via the EC) is relevant.

~~~~~~~

$ egrep '^$|acpi|batt|l cap|\(warn|Cycl|State|Rema|Pres' \
    tracker_aconf_newbats.txt
battery 0/internal
Last full capacity: 16000 mWh
Capacity (warn): 800 mWh
Cycle Count: 4
State: high
Remaining capacity: 89%
Remaining time: 1:07
Present rate: 0 mW
Present voltage: 12292 mV

battery1/external/61+
Last full capacity: 35490 mWh
Capacity (warn): 1774 mWh
Cycle Count: 17
State: discharging
Remaining capacity: 98%
Remaining time: 2:44
Present rate: 12689 mW
Present voltage: 12131 mV
$

It all hinges on the Last full capacity, which can be - and in your case, with new batteries, clearly is - wildly inaccurate.

battery1:

98% * 35490 ~= 34780 mWh
34780mWh / 12689mW = 2.74h = 2h44m (tick)

P=VI; I=P/V = 12.7W/12.1V = 1.05A discharge current now

battery0:

89% * 16000 ~= 14240 mWh
14240 / 12689(*) = 1.12h = 1h7.3m (tick)

* assuming same load in mW to estimate when in use.

~~~~~~~

Your new primary internal battery reports only 16000 of its 22800mWh design capacity i.e. 70.2%

Your new secondary external battery reports only 35490 of its 48840mWh design capacity i.e. 72.7%

Also note that capacity (warn) is always 5% of Last full cap.

You need to do probably at least three complete discharge / recharge cycles on each of these batteries. The Vantage app wanted to start with charging but that didn't work.

First things first:

Use the Vantage program to set the thresholds for both batteries to the standard Thinkpad T-series settings of high = 100% and low = 95%.

If you haven't already, get the T480 hardware maintenance manual. From manualslib.com it arrives as thinkpad_t480.pdf

Lenovo ThinkPad T480 Hardware Maintenance Manual (114 pages)

Read carefully all references to batter{y,ies}, including the full reset procedure including the coin-cell battery removal and 60 second on the reset button.

I will try to re-do the script, as proper discharge / recharge logs show a lot about how the battery internal chips are recalibrated.

Do not be afraid of damaging LiPo or LIon batteries by deep discharge; it doesn't bother them, that's what they're designed to do.

Meanwhile, try disconnecting the external battery, boot into the BIOS/UEFI Setup, unplug the power to let it discharge completely - while you sleep.

Plug it in when you wake, leave it to fully charge, take acpiconf listings before and after. After two such cycles you should see much improved Last full capacity.

Oh yes ... turn off Fast Boot in BIOS, in case you're missing any messages about non-Lenovo approved batteries, as they may not charge (see .pdf)

Sorry this is rather scattered, I'm remembering bits of my lost files along the way.

 

[Tracker]

Hard to get good help these days? ;-)

Haha yes!! I totally depend on my good friend here

Couple of issues: a) I've been ill; b) a disastrous upgrade of my long-favourite Android text editor lost half a dozen files I was working on, including two with stuff for you, one a discharge/recharge script to try resuscitating your new but never fully charged batteries!

Oh - sorry to hear that - hope you are feeling better now. Thanks for putting in the effort - I was under the impression you just forgot about it, hence the tags. Apologies.

It all hinges on the Last full capacity, which can be - and in your case, with new batteries, clearly is - wildly inaccurate.

Exactly - that's bewildering - why it doesn't show accurate stats. So now the situation is that I have 3 external batteries - all from the same shop/manufacuring (was so irritated with losing work that I got them to never lose work again due to battery issues). At least 2 of them show similar behaviour - haven't even tested the last one yet! So I guess I am stuck with them.

FWIW they do last a couple off hours - at least that's what the time it shows says. So it's comfortable, for now.

Your new primary internal battery reports only 16000 of its 22800mWh design capacity i.e. 70.2%

Your new secondary external battery reports only 35490 of its 48840mWh design capacity i.e. 72.7%

Yes, they don't charge fully. Although it does go onto show 98% charged capacity (with the capacity itself being dicey).

Also note that capacity (warn) is always 5% of Last full cap

Interesting - so there is no way to know what the exact capacity is - but whatever it is 5% should be the warning. Mostly using FreeBSD - so not sure how much of this is relevant.

If you haven't already, get the T480 hardware maintenance manual. From manualslib.com it arrives as thinkpad_t480.pdf

Lenovo ThinkPad T480 Hardware Maintenance Manual (114 pages)

Read carefully all references to batter{y,ies}, including the full reset procedure including the coin-cell battery removal and 60 second on the reset button.

Thanks will try to take a look at this soon.

Do not be afraid of damaging LiPo or LIon batteries by deep discharge; it doesn't bother them, that's what they're designed to do.

Good to know!

Meanwhile, try disconnecting the external battery, boot into the BIOS/UEFI Setup, unplug the power to let it discharge completely - while you sleep.

Plug it in when you wake, leave it to fully charge, take acpiconf listings before and after. After two such cycles you should see much improved Last full capacity.

Oh yes ... turn off Fast Boot in BIOS, in case you're missing any messages about non-Lenovo approved batteries, as they may not charge (see .pdf)

Shall do this on the next restart.

Sorry this is rather scattered, I'm remembering bits of my lost files along the way.

No problem at all - this is helpful, rather than being stuck with nothing. Thanks again for taking the time out!

 

[smithi]

FWIW they do last a couple off hours - at least that's what the time it shows says. So it's comfortable, for now.

I gather you haven't actually run it on just battery for any substantial length of time yet, is that correct?

Yes, they don't charge fully. Although it does go onto show 98% charged capacity (with the capacity itself being dicey).

I'm not sure they're charging at all! See below. The system (Embedded Controller I think) eventually assumes they're as charged as they're going to be (based on terminal voltage I believe) and sets it to 99 or 100%, which I think is likely when 'Last full capacity' is updated.

It's also common to get new batteries charged to ~70%

This is why Lenovo laptops don't have a bad reputation for battery fires, manufacturers' worst nightmare.

Oh yes ... turn off Fast Boot in BIOS, in case you're missing any messages about non-Lenovo approved batteries, as they may not charge (see .pdf)

Shall do this on the next restart.

The Hardware Maint. Manual refers to using the Windows control panel to turn Fast Boot off/on, so I'm not certain it will appear in BIOS Setup. If not, boot Windows and fix it first.

For now, do not fully discharge the batteries, in case my worst suspicion may be true - that you may have failed to see pre-boot messages, during hardware checks, saying that your battery/s are not genuine Lenovo-compatible parts, and so they will not be charged. See the HMM.

 

[Tracker]

I gather you haven't actually run it on just battery for any substantial length of time yet, is that correct?

I have used them for a couple of hours on just battery, a few times for sure - although I do have a habit of plugging them into the charging adapter as soon as they hit 40% remaining charge or so.
FWIW this is the current state when plugged in
battery 0/non-swappable battery

Design capacity:    22800 mWh
Last full capacity:    15990 mWh
Technology:        secondary (rechargeable)
Battery Swappable Capability:    Non-swappable
Design voltage:        11400 mV
Capacity (warn):    799 mWh
Capacity (low):        200 mWh
Cycle Count:        6
Mesurement Accuracy:    95 %
Max Average Interval:    1000 ms
Min Average Interval:    500 ms
Low/warn granularity:    -1 mWh
Warn/full granularity:    -1 mWh
Model number:        01AV421
Serial number:           35
Type:            LiP
OEM info:        LGC
State:            high
Remaining capacity:    85%
Remaining time:        unknown
Present rate:        0 mW
Present voltage:    11938 mV

battery 1/external/swappable battery

Design capacity:    48840 mWh
Last full capacity:    35490 mWh
Technology:        secondary (rechargeable)
Design voltage:        11100 mV
Capacity (warn):    1774 mWh
Capacity (low):        200 mWh
Cycle Count:        28
Mesurement Accuracy:    95 %
Max Average Interval:    1000 ms
Min Average Interval:    500 ms
Low/warn granularity:    -1 mWh
Warn/full granularity:    -1 mWh
Model number:        01AV425
Serial number:        63839
Type:            LION
OEM info:        SANYO
State:            charging
Remaining capacity:    94%
Remaining time:        unknown
Present rate:        10223 mW
Present voltage:    12468 mV

Unless I am misunderstanding - the "Present rate" value gives the impression it is charging?

 

[Crivens]

See the "State:" line a bit above? The battery/ACPI seems to think it certainly is.

 

[smithi]

I have used them for a couple of hours on just battery, a few times for sure - although I do have a habit of plugging them into the charging adapter as soon as they hit 40% remaining charge or so.

Ok, now at last we see an acpiconf with 'charging' and then charging rate of 10.2W (which varies in bursts during charging phases).

Unless I am misunderstanding - the "Present rate" value gives the impression it is charging?

Yes, 'State:' is definitive, at least on Thinkpads. States are:
. charging (varying rates)
. high: fully charged
. discharging (varying rates)
. critical discharging (near 0%)
. critical charging (near 0%)

Before anything else have you
a) set lo/hi thresholds on both present batteries as 95 - 100%?
b) turned off Fast Boot to enable pre-boot messages?
c) skimmed the HMM for matches on 'batter' or 'charg'?

cheers

 

[Tracker]

Before anything else have you
a) set lo/hi thresholds on both present batteries as 95 - 100%?
b) turned off Fast Boot to enable pre-boot messages?
c) skimmed the HMM for matches on 'batter' or 'charg'?

a) low/hi on battery 0 is 65 (start charging below)/95 (stop charging above)
low/hi on battery 1 is 75/100
Is that good enough?

b) I am able to see the FreeBSD messages when it boots - or are you referring to something else?

Manual refers to using the Windows control panel to turn Fast Boot off/on, so I'm not certain it will appear in BIOS Setup. If not, boot Windows and fix it first.

The control panel in windows doesn't show any boot option when I try to search.

c) Skimmed a bit - not too much, gave the impression it's not as helpful.

Also - upon conducting a hardware check with Vantage - both batteries (internal,external) fail the health test (temp test they both pass)!

There is also a "battery gauge reset" option in vantage software - would that be any helpful to try?

 

[smithi]

a) low/hi on battery 0 is 65 (start charging below)/95 (stop charging above)
low/hi on battery 1 is 75/100
Is that good enough?

No, it is not. Use Vantage to set both to default 95 & 100%

b) I am able to see the FreeBSD messages when it boots - or are you referring to something else?

Before FreeBSD. POST tests, when you can press F1 for Thinkpad Setup.

Just find 'disabling', first hit after contents is p.64 of the THMM - T480 Hardware Maintenance Manual - for the five part instructions to disable "Fast Startup*" in Windows Control Panel.

[*edit: not Fast Boot, sorry]

The control panel in windows doesn't show any boot option when I try to search.

As above - follow the HMM.

c) Skimmed a bit - not too much, gave the impression it's not as helpful.

You may need to put in a little more effort if you are serious.