Closed TrueOS plans on getting serious

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Oko

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Trihexagonal

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But not as a functional desktop. In fact, unless I'm mistaken, I think they were still using Fluxbox 1.3.1 when I tried it last summer, which dates back to 2011. It's where I originally got my menu, when I was still using PC-BSD, and carried it over to use with FreeBSD as a default with that header.

Yes, BSDs are not there yet at all, but one may dream, which is what they do.
Nothing wrong with that, this is exactly how technological progress is achieved.

My FreeBSD desktops are fully functional.

functionality.png

I don't know how much I can add that Oko didn't cover, but if you think marketing a desktop that isn't fully functional as a fully functional desktop is good business practice, then you have been using TrueOS too long.

I use Fluxbox as my WM and have been for years so that’s what I chose the first time I used it. There is no way to start xterm from the right-click menu and the xterm command does not exist so it can be started from a terminal in Lumina. The default installation of Xorg includes xterm. What happened to it?

% xterm

CORRECT>Eterm (y|n|e|a)? no
xterm: Command not found

There is also no file manager available from Fluxbox so that severely limits what you can do without switching to Lumina.

https://discourse.trueos.org/t/my-thoughts-on-trueos/2196/10
They much be spiking that kool-aid...
 

teo

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The policy of the BSD that have been carrying around for many years, is the closed ideology that has been focused only on servers without taking a full interest in this case to FreeBSD for massive use of the graphical desktop, due to those ultra closed policy, many graphical desktop projects like DesktopBSD and others that are dead have failed. With the new quantum technology coming soon, I doubt BSD for open source will survive over time, today, the commercialization and distribution of BSDs around the world is negligible compared to closed source and other of open source. With the 12 years of the PC-BSD project, today TrueOS, I doubt that it will make the difference with the new project that they want to learn as a base system in OpenRC and graphic desktop, besides the big problem of the BSDs of the support for the software or hardware for modern machines. :)
 

hrenznaet

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My FreeBSD desktops are fully functional.
The fact that they seem to fit satisfy your requirements doesn't mean they are fully functional.
There are other people in this world and they, so it happens, may have a different requirements and their use cases differ from yours and thus one has to take in account all the uses as a whole to make judgements about a subject in general, so I don't know how much I can add that Oko didn't cover.
 

hrenznaet

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Once was enough, there was no need for you to do it twice.

Just because irrefutable facts are presented doesn't mean they won't be.
Do what twice? What facts are you talking about?
I have a feeling as if you feel hurt by my claim that BSDs are not fully ready for desktops. Are my feelings right?
 

ILUXA

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It's strongly depends on what "fully functional" means for you, hrenznaet.
If you need spyware and adware to call OS "fully functional desktop", then Windows©®™ 10
should fully satisfy your needs. My *nix installations are fully functional, moreover,
it's extremly much more functional and usable than any M$ or CrApple crap.
 

hrenznaet

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Now consider yourself on ignore.
Okay, I don't care.
It's strongly depends on what "fully functional" means for you, hrenznaet.
If you need spyware and adware to call OS "fully functional desktop", then Windows©®™ 10
should fully satisfy your needs. My *nix installations are fully functional, moreover,
it's extremly much more functional and usable than any M$ or CrApple crap.
It so happens, that there are a lot of very popular programs that are not opensource.
They run well on Windows, Apple OS and even on Linux. But not on BSDs.
Even the same programs that generally run ~fine on both Linux and BSDs usually have BSD-specific issues.
In my opinion, even if some OS is so wonderful and perfect that it just shines of awesomeness - it still can fail for Desktop use in general, if it doesn't support most of the crucial, most popular programs.
Ecosystem does matter.
Windows now has WSL.
Linux has WINE.
FreeBSD kind of has WINE, but it sucks too much compared to WINE on Linux: for example, there's no SysWOW64 in BSD's WINE and 32-bit and 64-bit WINEs are mutually exclusive.
After all, I judge from my experience. I see the amount of issues with Windows, FreeBSD, TrueOS and Linux and I have to tell, that FreeBSD is not ready for desktop yet.
Even screenlockers do not work properly on FreeBSD (but it works on TrueOS).
 

shkhln

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FreeBSD kind of has WINE, but it sucks too much compared to WINE on Linux: for example, there's no SysWOW64 in BSD's WINE and 32-bit and 64-bit WINEs are mutually exclusive.

It's actually impossible to build Wine without wow64, it's a runtime switch. You just need to add wine and wine64 to $PATH, start 64-bit wineserver, and then it will be enabled. There is nothing more to it.
 

Oko

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Okay, I don't care.

It so happens, that there are a lot of very popular programs that are not opensource.
True! I do run MATLAB for living. I also use proprietary Intel compilers and GPU drivers to run CUDA (Deep learning).

They run well on Windows, Apple OS and even on Linux. But not on BSDs.
Very true! Users ultimately care about their applications not so much about underlining OS.

Windows now has WSL.
I have used computers running Windows on few occasions since its inception in early 90s of last centry but my reaction was always the same. Without lack of native scripting language (sh/ksh93, awk, Perl) renders it useless. Hack even editing ASCII file as a major pain in the rear end not to say doing something with network stack. Now I will be the first one to admit that I don't know anything about PowerShell.

Linux has WINE.
WINE is useless peace of crap. Have you ever tried to run the latest MS Office (my boss needs it to edit government contracts) on WINE? Please don't bother.

What Linux has is a large eco system powered by billions of dollars from companies like IBM, HP, RedHat and similar which made it defacto standard for scientific computing and SOHO server. That is a very nitche and tiny market comparing to embedded devices, main frame (Airline companies, Banks) and similar. Linux on the desktop is a statistical error. That statistical error are created primerely by scientific computing users. Even at the research level one university (I work for one) most desktops run OS X and Windows. Occasional Ubuntu and RedHat workstation is more relic of not so distant past when we used Solaris, Irix, Tru64 before that.

FreeBSD kind of has WINE, but it sucks too much compared to WINE on Linux: for example, there's no SysWOW64 in BSD's WINE and 32-bit and 64-bit WINEs are mutually exclusive.
After all, I judge from my experience. I see the amount of issues with Windows, FreeBSD, TrueOS and Linux and I have to tell, that FreeBSD is not ready for desktop yet.
Even screenlockers do not work properly on FreeBSD (but it works on TrueOS).
With all due respect your experience with FreeBSD is irrelevant. FreeBSD target user group are professionals (mostly servers) or a serious hobbyists. Based on your posts you are in neither of those two groups. Declaring FreeBSD useless as a desktop because Skype is non functional is laughable. Just install Skype app on your smart phone.

There is no market for a UNIX workstation. The number of serious computer users has being steady for the past 20-30 years and consist of tiny fraction of population who works in science related fields and are highly educated. For everything else just go to your favorite electronic store and get the latest crap. OS X is the closest thing we have to UNIX OS for wide masses and even most OS X users are not very serious.
 

hrenznaet

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True! I do run MATLAB for living. I also use proprietary Intel compilers and GPU drivers to run CUDA (Deep learning).
...
I have used computers running Windows on few occasions since its inception in early 90s of last centry but my reaction was always the same. Without lack of native scripting language (sh/ksh93, awk, Perl) renders it useless. Hack even editing ASCII file as a major pain in the rear end not to say doing something with network stack. Now I will be the first one to admit that I don't know anything about PowerShell.
With all due respect your experience with FreeBSD/Windows is irrelevant.

WINE is useless peace of crap. Have you ever tried to run the latest MS Office (my boss needs it to edit government contracts) on WINE? Please don't bother.
In my experience with it on BSD - it is worse than just crap, but I talked with people on #winehq channel in irc and generally they said that it's probably due to I use WINE on BSD (which no one else there does) that I have such poor experience and they share stories that they even manage to play quite modern games with quite decent quality, just as an example.
Man, I can't make a damn firefoxportable (by portableapps) open a single site in WINE under BSD.

What Linux has is a large eco system powered by billions of dollars from companies like IBM, HP, RedHat and similar which made it defacto standard for scientific computing and SOHO server.
Exactly. Also, billions of dollars means millions of users and thousands of developers.
The developers from time to time want some comfort and organize it for themselves.
As a result - this is probably the reason why linux is closer to being desktop-ready than BSDs are.

Linux on the desktop is a statistical error.
Ha-ha, if even linux on the desktop is a statistical error then what is a BSD on desktop?

FreeBSD target user group are professionals (mostly servers) or a serious hobbies. Based on your posts you are in neither of those two groups. Declaring FreeBSD useless as a desktop because Skype is non functional is laughable. Just install Skype app on your smart phone.
We probably mean different things by 'desktop OS': in my opinion an OS is desktop-ready when most of the popular apps mostly work on it and when that's all accessible to an average Joe.
You may laugh all you like, but in fact I am a professional. A recently started one, quite a newbie, lacking much knowledge, but I still am, by definition (my profession requires working with servers, this is what I get paid for).
I work with servers, all of them are linux-based. I use XUbuntu at work on my desktop. I have a fully working Skype at work.
Since I have experience with both FreeBSD and XUbuntu - I can compare.
 

Oko

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You may laugh all you like, but in fact I am a professional.
If you are indeed professional as you claim please act like a one and just ride into the sunset. If Xubuntu or Windows works for you great. It is now clear that all BSDs and their users suck and are not worth of your time.


@admins

Posts and users like this lady/gentleman might be amusing to you but having this much noise comparing to the real signal is disservice to everyone, including novice FreeBSD users, supposedly very group you are trying to help by running this forum. I do read the documentation and the code when I need to and the only reason I was this much active last two days was a lot of time I had on hands during the wedding I attended. Other than that finding a truly useful information on this forum is becoming treasure hunting.


@devs with port commit privilages

Please, please remove Wine, Skype, as well as Linux emulator. Removing 10 000 or so other obsolete ports would be even better. It is useless crap that servers as a honeypot for customers as above.
 

shkhln

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they share stories that they even manage to play quite modern games with quite decent quality, just as an example.
Man, I can't make a damn firefoxportable (by portableapps) open a single site in WINE under BSD.

Is that somehow surprising? Modern browser touches larger API surface area than a game.
 

Crivens

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hrenznaet - very professional indeed. Consider this a polite warning. Be what you claim to be or do what you call upon your next man. But stop acting like this is some linux forum. We here don't need to prove anything to you. We will not teach you, but we might let you learn.

Oko - no, I do not find this thread amusing. You as an oldtimer should know about the report button. State your case and it will be heard.

I have now spend time reading posts which I can only sum up as trolling and trollbait. Please decide for yourself who did what. But I would rather have spent that time with my kids.

Any useful comments before the hammer is falling?
 

hrenznaet

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hrenznaet - very professional indeed. Consider this a polite warning. Be what you claim to be or do what you call upon your next man. But stop acting like this is some linux forum. We here don't need to prove anything to you. We will not teach you, but we might let you learn.
I have now spend time reading posts which I can only sum up as trolling and trollbait. Please decide for yourself who did what. But I would rather have spent that time with my kids.

Any useful comments before the hammer is falling?
Huh? If someone has an opinion that you don't share and you strongly disagree - that's trolling and trollbait and needs to be banned? In the offtopic sub-forum?
If the answer is positive - yes, please ban me, I'll get less help from the forum and that will probably catalyse the inevitable for me.
 
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Sensucht94

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Huh? If someone has an opinion that you don't share and you strongly disagree - that's trolling and trollbait and needs to be banned? In the offtopic sub-forum?

Off-Topic is meant for *BSD/FOSS-related news and productive discussion, not for casual chatting. Most of the rules which apply to the other subfora, are valid here too In particular, being this a professional support public forum, ad-personam attacks/harassment and poor private talk, which can't be of any interest for the rest of the community is not allowed. This thread has already gone too far already and I recon I also wrongly contributed to it being hijacked.
 
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